[Jon L]

I'll try to take that same time to audition speakers. Martin Logan electrostatic speakers and Focal's Kanta 2/3 as well have caught my eye

If Martin Logans are on your list, Sanders 10e electrostats HAVE to be tried!
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sanders-model-10e-hybrid-electrostatic-loudspeaker/
and Spatial Audio Labs
https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/xseries

At least you have time to look for some used units..

 

[number1sixerfan]

If Martin Logans are on your list, Sanders 10e electrostats HAVE to be tried!
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/sanders-model-10e-hybrid-electrostatic-loudspeaker/
and Spatial Audio Labs
https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/xseries

At least you have time to look for some used units..

Thank you!! Would not have known about either! That's one part of the speaker world that seems so daunting. The mid to high end options seem absolutely limitless lol

My only concern on the electrostatic sound is for speaker listening, I tend to like a bit more warmth and less analytical dominant sound.. but I still want that electrostatic clarity and detail. Hopefully I can find a good balance between the two in a speaker.

 

[ufospls2]

Thank you!! Would not have known about either! That's one part of the speaker world that seems so daunting. The mid to high end options seem absolutely limitless lol

My only concern on the electrostatic sound is for speaker listening, I tend to like a bit more warmth and less analytical dominant sound.. but I still want that electrostatic clarity and detail. Hopefully I can find a good balance between the two in a speaker.

Might be worth checking out a pair of used Magico A3. You could likely find a pair for sub 10KUSD. I owned a pair for about a year, struck me as a good one and done type of speaker. Maybe not excelling at one particular thing, but doing a lot of stuff well. A bit less analytical than their higher end models, especially the older ones.

 

[Jon L]

I tend to like a bit more warmth and less analytical dominant sound.. but I still want that electrostatic clarity and detail.

Yup, that's the bane of my speaker world.
For electrostat clarity/detail plus warmth, yet with superb transients/dynamics, a combo of plasma tweeters and horns seems to do it best to my ears. The budget WILL blow up:
https://www.acapella.de/620-english/?lang=en

 

[Kerry]

I've been a big fan of Magnepan speakers. They're a nice segway from electrostatic headphones.

I haven't heard the new lines in a while, but worth a listen.

Magnepan - Floor standing

 

[paradoxper]

Thank you!! Would not have known about either! That's one part of the speaker world that seems so daunting. The mid to high end options seem absolutely limitless lol

My only concern on the electrostatic sound is for speaker listening, I tend to like a bit more warmth and less analytical dominant sound.. but I still want that electrostatic clarity and detail. Hopefully I can find a good balance between the two in a speaker.

Martin Logan will steal your soul. Ask @Drewligarchy, they're simply wonderful.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I've been a big fan of Magnepan speakers. They're a nice segway from electrostatic headphones.

I haven't heard the new lines in a while, but worth a listen.

Magnepan - Floor standing

I actually forgot about these! Will look into them!

Martin Logan will steal your soul. Ask @Drewligarchy, they're simply wonderful.

That's what I'm afraid of lol. But no really everyone that has them, across all of their lineups seem to speak nothing but praises of them.

 

[paradoxper]

I actually forgot about these! Will look into them!



That's what I'm afraid of lol. But no really everyone that has them, across all of their lineups seem to speak nothing but praises of them.

You know the inevitable.

 

[hifixman]

Thank you!! Would not have known about either! That's one part of the speaker world that seems so daunting. The mid to high end options seem absolutely limitless lol

My only concern on the electrostatic sound is for speaker listening, I tend to like a bit more warmth and less analytical dominant sound.. but I still want that electrostatic clarity and detail. Hopefully I can find a good balance between the two in a speaker.

Most critics I have heard from the electrostatic loud speaker is the lack of midrange making it more suitable as a home movie theater instead of an ideal Hifi setup.

Therefore I would recommend using source and amp which are big on midrange. Therefore I would vote for Riviera Amp and Esoteric Source

 

[number1sixerfan]

My TOTL All-Time Ranking - Updated​

This is an all-time PERSONAL PREFERENCE ranking for me. I think through this in two ways: 1) what do I enjoy listening to most, inclusive of head time I give them; and 2) how likely or willing would I be to sell (007 and HE60 are exceptions, not keen on ever selling either regardless of ranking. I’ll also do a “technical” all-time ranking that is going to look different. Working on that now.

1. Shangri-La Sr.
2. Sennheiser HE90
3. Sony MDR-R10/Audio-Technica L3000
4. Stax x9000 (Stax Omega would be right here as well, but I haven’t owned it)
5. Raal Sr1a/Stax 009 & 007 MK1/Hifiman Susvara/Abyss TC (007 MUST be amped properly or it drops on this list significantly)
6. Sennheiser HE60 “Baby Orpheus”
7. Audeze CRBN/Focal Utopia
8. Audeze LCD-R/ZMF Verite Closed (these are really awesome values)
9. Audeze LCD-5 (I’m sorry, but I owned it, I have to add it lol)

A few important thoughts. (I always start out by saying a few and then type a whole page—sorry lol)

- From a personal preference standpoint, there’s a bit of distance between SGL and HE90 at #1 and #2, and all of the cans listed at #3. Again, I could live with only these two forever. The Sr. is technically better than the HE90 for sure, but the HE90 is very strong technically and has probably the greatest tonality of any headphone I’ve ever heard (R10 very close second... and shoutouts to the Susvara and CRBN here which also are very good in that regard)

-MDR-10 is absolutely incredible lol. Midrange is just insanely good and the realism (how lifelike vocals and instruments sound) is off of the charts—only the SGL Sr. rivals that for me. With just a smidge more bass and just a tad bit more technical proficiency (similar technical performance as the L3000, but very different), it would be getting the same head time as the HE90 and SGL Sr.

-L3000 isn’t going to be for everyone. For example, the x9000 and Omega, and even most of the cans at #5 have a leg up technically.. but the technical performance is solid and the midrange is absolutely to die for, with incredible bass as well. With all of the headphones that have come and go, these have consistently been in the top 3-5 head time wise. I am never selling them.

-x9000 could be higher, but it just doesn’t get as much head time for two reasons: 1) SGL Sr. does everything it does technically and more, making it a bit redundant; and 2) It absolutely has a distant and relaxed presentation which isn’t my main preference. But for someone else, I totally get having it or the Omega (which is a bit different, but very similar presentation) as an absolute best.

-TC/Susvara/009/Sr1a: you’ve seen me group these together in posts all over this forum, and that’s because they all perform at a very high level in a similar tier imo that really sets a bar for TOTL performance. If a new heapdhone comes out and doesn’t match or beat these (from consensus impressions), I’m not interested in giving it a go. I owned all of them for quite some time together and my perspective on which was “best” would change constantly. You’ll only see me sell these due to redundancy or because I can’t give them the head time to justify keeping. Also I have the 007 MK1, after finally amping them properly, in this tier of performance and enjoyment as well. One last thing here, and it's important.. if the TC's midrange was more neutral-forward AND it was actually comfortable, it would leap frog this group and probably be top 3 for me--this is not a dig, this is my giving it a very high compliment.

-6 through 8 is not at all meant to be seen as negative. Just want to make that clear. When you consider price, it makes total sense. The HE60 still to this day has some of the best vocals ever and the clarity is ONLY beaten by the Sr1a/SGL Sr./009. The CRBN’s tonality is phenomenal, I’d have it maybe top 4-5 in that category ever? Just hoping for more technical proficiency in the next Audeze stat. The fact that the VC has held it’s own in this thread while costing less than just about everything speaks volumes.

-I try not to comment on the LCD-5 as I don't want to come off as constantly bashing it, but for clarity's sake, there is a pretty big gap between #8 and #9. I hold #6-8 in high regard, the LCD-5 not so much. Again, just for clarity's sake.

Again, keep in mind this is just based on my preferences; i.e. if just talking technically, the Sr1a/TC/009 creeps up considerably. The R10 and L3000 drop considerably. Unfortunately technicalities are not all that matter, so this is the most important list.

That said, will get the technical list posted hopefully sometime next week.

 

[hifixman]

Amazing thred and valuable Input!

Personally speaking, Aperio is superior to Shangri-La SR plus Aperio is less sharp and bright in the highs better for long time listening. I will demo a over 200K upgraded HE-1 system and would love to find out it could better Aperio.

In my humble opinion it is rather difficult for me to rank cans alone even based on my own personal preference in that the source, amp, and cables all make too significant difference.

For example LCD5 is not near my top 10 due to that imbalanced. mid centric and bass shy sound sig, yet with Well’s Audio Headtrip IIl Mono amp, it has a brand new presentation which is fully dynamic and authoritative. In many cases using speaker amp driving cans, the sound could easily be split into pieces into left and right. I feel that mid centric tuning does help making that coherent sonic result driven by that mono power monster.

Another instance must be

Spirit Torino Valkyria Titanium.​

Although I’m not a fan of Spirit’s 10K flagship dynamic can for being too forced and over the face. However, with DCS Lina stack, it is magically organized and balanced with impressive and controlled button ends as my personal top2 at Canjam SoCal and top 5 of all systems I heard.

Even using the same system for ranking and comparing various headphones, I would be even more seriously concerned about comparability in that a system with the perfect synergy to headphone A, could be a disaster for headphone B.

Take Shangrila SR and X9000 for examples, they actually require setups of opposite tonalities where Shangrila SR mandates a warm and full-sounding source even for someone like me who do appreciate the electrostatic cymbals whereas the X9000 can benefit from a more energetic setup for some traditional electrostatic and classical music lovers, due to the high extensions being cut.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Amazing thred and valuable Input!

Personally speaking, Aperio is superior to Shangri-La SR plus Aperio is less sharp and bright in the highs better for long time listening. I will demo a over 200K upgraded HE-1 system and would love to find out it could better Aperio.

I was going to make note that there are absolutely other headphones I haven't tried that could be better than anything on the list. The Aperio is definitely on my interest list to listen, the HE-1 as well, but for both the price and concept of a system rules it out for ownership for me, for sure. (I'm totally against buying headphone "systems" because in literally every single instance (from my experience), you're paying a premium for an amp that limits the headphone)

Now I did do a ton of reading and talking to folks about the HE-1 (before I knew it couldn't really be detached from the system) and I'm pretty certain the SGL Sr. is the better fit for me. But now having the HE90, I think it could be a good complement to the Sr.

No clue on the Aperio but impressions look impressive and definitely would love to hear it. (Also I just haven't done much digging on the thing, if it can be separated from the amp, I would love to know lol)

In my humble opinion it is rather difficult to rank cans alone even based on personal preferences in that the source, amp, and cables all make too significant difference.

For example LCD5 is not near my top 10 due to that imbalanced. mid centric and bass shy sound sig, yet with Well’s Audio Headtrip IIl Mono amp, it has a brand new presentation which is fully dynamic and authoritative.

Although I’m not a fan of Spirit’s 10K flagship dynamic can for being too forced and over the face, with DCS Lina stack, it is magically organized and balanced as my personal top2 at Canjam SoCal 2022.

Yup, I think this is fair to a degree, but there's no objective way to do this perfectly. This is meant to be a personal and subjective list based on what I've owned over time. The one major positive (for comparison purposes) is that all of them have been used with the same system, with high quality and revered TOTL DACs and amps, most of which are neutral in nature. But absolutely, this list shouldn't be taken as some objective, literal guide for anyone. I wouldn't take any list as such simply based on differences in hearing and preferences alone.

 

[protoss]

1. Shangri-La Sr.
2. Sennheiser HE90
3. Sony MDR-R10/Audio-Technica L3000
4. Stax x9000 (Stax Omega would be right here as well, but I haven’t owned it)
5. Raal Sr1a/Stax 009 & 007 MK1/Hifiman Susvara/Abyss TC (007 MUST be amped properly or it drops on this list significantly)
6. Sennheiser HE60 “Baby Orpheus”
7. Audeze CRBN/Focal Utopia
8. Audeze LCD-R/ZMF Verite Closed (these are really awesome values)
9. Audeze LCD-5 (I’m sorry, but I owned it, I have to add it lol)

All hail the KING "Sony MDR R10."

Interesting you bought the R10. nice!

My recent revelation made me redo my list now.

1. Onkyo A800 - 99.99% of listening. List ends here now.
2. 007MK1
3. R10
4. OMEGA
5. HE90
....

 

[number1sixerfan]

All hail the KING "Sony MDR R10."

Interesting you bought the R10. nice!

My recent revelation made me redo my list now.

1. Onkyo A800 - 99.99% of listening. List ends here now.
2. 007MK1
3. R10
4. OMEGA
5. HE90
....

Hadn't heard of the Onkyo, that's interesting given your exposure to all of the TOTLs.

I would've never, ever purchased the R10 if I hadn't heard them first. Never. I absolutely respected them as one of the greatest ever, but I don't like purchasing vintage cans because of potential driver/stability issues because of obvious age. But once I heard them I knew it would eventually happen. The natural tone and realism from the vintage headphones just doesn't really exist in the same way today. As much as I love detail and technical performance, it seems like that's all manufacturers are chasing these days. It and the HE90 are better tonality wise than anything out newer.

And also, your use of the word "king" brings up a really important point I try to make consistently, which I think is important for the post I just made. For me, I just don't put any stock into a single "best" or "king". I can easily understand if anyone has any of the headphones I listed higher than others due to preference, genres they listen to, etc. I just don't care about that at all lol. Also, this becomes even more important when talking about the absolute top tier... good luck getting head-fi to agree on what the top 5 headphones ever are lol. Once you get to a certain level of performance, preference becomes the main factor ENTIRELY. And hell, the same still applies to a degree even outside of that tier--I just don't think we acknowledge this enough while arguing daily over what's "best".

Anyways, not directed at you my friend or your post, just wanted to make that clear for anyone coming across the ranking post above.

 

[SHAMuuu]

All hail the KING "Sony MDR R10."

Interesting you bought the R10. nice!

My recent revelation made me redo my list now.

1. Onkyo A800 - 99.99% of listening. List ends here now.
2. 007MK1
3. R10
4. OMEGA
5. HE90
....

That Onkyo threw me off I won't lie

For a second I thought you were talking about their wood flagship