[number1sixerfan]

Interesting conversation about the effect of amps on dynamic headphones. I recently canceled my order on an endgame tube amp (out of respect to the builder I will not mention which one) as the above conversation had a similar bearing on my decision. Like @number1sixerfan I am fully embedded with my Stax T2 setup and it receives the majority of my listening time (when not listening to my Naim/dCS 2 channel system). The only dynamic cans I have are the Utopia (my main dynamic), the Sony Signature Z1R, and my Grado RS1 purchased back in 2006 a few years after I first joined headfi.

This totl tube amp was purchased strictly for use with the Utopia and at the end I decided it was foolish to spend so much money on an amp for one can - particularly one which would not be used that much.

Part of the decision making process came about because I had to make a decision on whether to upgrade my Linn Klimax DS source from Katalyst to Organik. I wanted to determine whether my headphones were resolving enough to show a significant source upgrade - or if they had reached their limits. My first test was to listen to my T2 + X9000 through the Linn and then move the entire amplifier into the 2 channel room and listen to it again through a superior source - the dCS Rossini APEX. To my surpirse, and pleasure, the Stax X9000 easily proved it was capable of showing off a source upgrade. This allowed me to make the decision to order the Linn upgrade.

When I undertook the same experiment with the Focal Utopia I found the headphones were not up to the task of resolving an upgrade in the source component - the move from the Linn to Rossini. I then connected the Utopia to my Sony Signature WM1Z (the gold brick) and found the performance of the Utopia was more or less the same through that as well. In other words the gold walkman yielded similar results to the totl dCS Rossini. My conclusion, in line with some of the above comments, is that a dynamic can such as the Utopia may have reached its limits more quickly than something like my Stax phones. As @Chefguru stated above a lambda on the T2 will probably out perform an x9000 on a mid-tier stax amps for example. I think the Utopia, know for being an easy headphone to drive, tops out very quickly with both amplifier and source selections.

As always your mileage may vary

And exactly what you mention is my hang up. Most of the headphones I'm looking to drive (L3000, R10, Utopia, etc.) at are actually really easy to drive, and it make the argument for upgrading even tougher.

Interesting findings for the Utopia and higher end DACs, and I could see that being the case with it being a bit less expansive and nuanced technically like some of the other TOTL cans. Btw, what I love about the Utopia is that it kind of sounds like a Grado on steroids. The Grado Sr60 was one of my first ever headphones, and I went up the line all the way to the RS1, PS1, HP1000s. But similarly, the highs are just a bit too much (and from this thread, you all know I'm pretty tolerant of brighter highs). Yet and still, very much a headphone I get people owning and loving, just as I did while I had them. The 2022 sounds promising and can't wait to hear them.


Also, at some point I need to actually explore many other high end DACs. I know there are a lot of great options out there. I've been really happy with the Dave and Mscaler, but with landing on stats being my main rig, whereas previously I didn't favor any type of system, I think I could also really enjoy something less analytical given the nature of stats. Would love to home demo something from my dealer, but don't want to waste their time as I'm not sure I'm ready to move on just yet.

 

[buzzlulu]

Funny you mention Grado. @all2ofme is a dear friend (I think you have corresponded with him) and when I was speaking with him last week he mentioned having sold off a number of headphones and keeping a tight set. He mentioned his Grado RS2X which does things others do not and that inspired me to go into the closet and fish out my RS1 which I purchased ihn 2006. Back when I joined Headfi in 2003 the only cans around were the Sennheiser 650 and Grado. I remember purchasing the 650 as my first headphone, changing the cable, and having a LaRocca amp built. What a disappointment - veiled and boring!. Since I am rather active on the Naim 2 channel forum I noticed many Naim owners were using Grado headphones - PRAT like Naim Audio gear. I purchased the RS1 and was in heaven.

Fast forward and when Ben mentioned Grado I took mine out of the closet and had a listen (I bought new bowl pads last year but did not listen at the time). I would say it has been 5 years since I heard them - WOW. I believe @Chefguru has a thread entitled “have things changed in the last 20 years”. Boy is he right. They sound absolutely fabulous.

By the way - what is the “2022” you are mentioning - a new Grado?

 

[buzzlulu]

Ah just realized - Focal Utopia 2022

 

[iamoneagain]

Funny you mention Grado. @all2ofme is a dear friend (I think you have corresponded with him) and when I was speaking with him last week he mentioned having sold off a number of headphones and keeping a tight set. He mentioned his Grado RS2X which does things others do not and that inspired me to go into the closet and fish out my RS1 which I purchased ihn 2006. Back when I joined Headfi in 2003 the only cans around were the Sennheiser 650 and Grado. I remember purchasing the 650 as my first headphone, changing the cable, and having a LaRocca amp built. What a disappointment - veiled and boring!. Since I am rather active on the Naim 2 channel forum I noticed many Naim owners were using Grado headphones - PRAT like Naim Audio gear. I purchased the RS1 and was in heaven.

Fast forward and when Ben mentioned Grado I took mine out of the closet and had a listen (I bought new bowl pads last year but did not listen at the time). I would say it has been 5 years since I heard them - WOW. I believe @Chefguru has a thread entitled “have things changed in the last 20 years”. Boy is he right. They sound absolutely fabulous.

By the way - what is the “2022” you are mentioning - a new Grado?

This sounds like my start on head-fi and around the same time. I got an hd650, changed the cable, and still thought they weren’t great for rock. Then I got the RS1 and was so happy. Eventually getting the PS1, which was like a souped up RS1.

Needed a closed headphone and ended up with the L3000. Amazing but eventually wanted open headphones after 12 years and got the Utopia. Very Grado like. Last year took a chance and got the Expanse. Did a lot of things right but didn’t quite have that PRaT the others had. Returned and now have the ZMF Caldera. Wow, what a great headphone. Plenty of PRaT and looks beautiful.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Funny you mention Grado. @all2ofme is a dear friend (I think you have corresponded with him) and when I was speaking with him last week he mentioned having sold off a number of headphones and keeping a tight set. He mentioned his Grado RS2X which does things others do not and that inspired me to go into the closet and fish out my RS1 which I purchased ihn 2006. Back when I joined Headfi in 2003 the only cans around were the Sennheiser 650 and Grado. I remember purchasing the 650 as my first headphone, changing the cable, and having a LaRocca amp built. What a disappointment - veiled and boring!. Since I am rather active on the Naim 2 channel forum I noticed many Naim owners were using Grado headphones - PRAT like Naim Audio gear. I purchased the RS1 and was in heaven.

Fast forward and when Ben mentioned Grado I took mine out of the closet and had a listen (I bought new bowl pads last year but did not listen at the time). I would say it has been 5 years since I heard them - WOW. I believe @Chefguru has a thread entitled “have things changed in the last 20 years”. Boy is he right. They sound absolutely fabulous.

By the way - what is the “2022” you are mentioning - a new Grado?

The HD650 had the most insane following on here I have ever seen lol. Good times. I had it and the HD600 out of the Eddie Current Zana Deux, but far after I had started with the AKG 501 and early grados (an absolute favorite that probably drove me off the cliff lol). The 650 was really good imo for sure but with it's own veiled quirks. I bought a lot of aftermarket cables for it as well lol.. the HE90 is the epitome of the Sennheiser sound and what people made the 650 out to be lol

Grados had a magic that no other manufacturer had. The only two issues ever were brightness and pad discomfort. But a special magic that just about nobody could replicate. The RS1 is probably my favorite ever. Bought and sold it so many times. Just incredible fun factor.

 

[number1sixerfan]

This sounds like my start on head-fi and around the same time. I got an hd650, changed the cable, and still thought they weren’t great for rock. Then I got the RS1 and was so happy. Eventually getting the PS1, which was like a souped up RS1.

Needed a closed headphone and ended up with the L3000. Amazing but eventually wanted open headphones after 12 years and got the Utopia. Very Grado like. Last year took a chance and got the Expanse. Did a lot of things right but didn’t quite have that PRaT the others had. Returned and now have the ZMF Caldera. Wow, what a great headphone. Plenty of PRaT and looks beautiful.

Can totally relate to your journey. Also, the Caldera is the headphone I'm most interested in hearing. Based on everything I've read and have heard from friends, it's what I'm most looking forward to.

 

[Chefguru]

Funny you mention Grado. @all2ofme is a dear friend (I think you have corresponded with him) and when I was speaking with him last week he mentioned having sold off a number of headphones and keeping a tight set. He mentioned his Grado RS2X which does things others do not and that inspired me to go into the closet and fish out my RS1 which I purchased ihn 2006. Back when I joined Headfi in 2003 the only cans around were the Sennheiser 650 and Grado. I remember purchasing the 650 as my first headphone, changing the cable, and having a LaRocca amp built. What a disappointment - veiled and boring!. Since I am rather active on the Naim 2 channel forum I noticed many Naim owners were using Grado headphones - PRAT like Naim Audio gear. I purchased the RS1 and was in heaven.

Fast forward and when Ben mentioned Grado I took mine out of the closet and had a listen (I bought new bowl pads last year but did not listen at the time). I would say it has been 5 years since I heard them - WOW. I believe @Chefguru has a thread entitled “have things changed in the last 20 years”. Boy is he right. They sound absolutely fabulous.

By the way - what is the “2022” you are mentioning - a new Grado?

Yes my thread - however I am not a fan of rs-1 haha. Only hp-1000 & the ps-1 (not 1000)
Had a chance to home demo the gs3000x recently. Not for me

 

[number1sixerfan]

Yes my thread - however I am not a fan of rs-1 haha. Only hp-1000 & the ps-1 (not 1000)
Had a chance to home demo the gs3000x recently. Not for me

Not a fan of the RS1?!! Blasphemy lol.. The HP-1000 is clearly better, but still lol

 

[Chefguru]

Not a fan of the RS1?!! Blasphemy lol.. The HP-1000 is clearly better, but still lol

I’ve gifted it several times but yeah too bright for me. Hp-1000 is that one step closer to neutral that’s needed to make the headphone work. The improved version even more so.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I’ve gifted it several times but yeah too bright for me. Hp-1000 is that one step closer to neutral that’s needed to make the headphone work. The improved version even more so.

Makes a ton of sense. Especially given your preferences, totally understand. And it's even been too bright for me long term, hence buying and selling it multiple times.

 

[iamoneagain]

Not a fan of the RS1?!! Blasphemy lol.. The HP-1000 is clearly better, but still lol

I could never get past the fit of the HP-1000 so I never pursued them. I moved on from the RS1 to the GS-1000 and knew this new sound wasn’t for me. Was going to go back to the RS1 until heard about the limited edition PS1. Even then I sometimes thought maybe I should have just stuck with the RS1 because the PS1 were too heavy and uncomfortable after a while. And while they were better than the RS1, the RS1 was just such a fun headphone but I haven’t listened to them since I sold them all those years ago. Not sure how I’d feel after owning the Caldera and having a very fun open headphone with great soundstage and deep bass.

 

[Failed Engineer]

The HP-1000s can now be comfortable thanks to ZMF's Grado adapter and Beyer pads. Also brings the driver closer to the ears than the flat pads so IMO sounds better. A worthy $100 to breathe new life for any owner. Highly recommended.

 

[iamoneagain]

The HP-1000s can now be comfortable thanks to ZMF's Grado adapter and Beyer pads. Also brings the driver closer to the ears than the flat pads so IMO sounds better. A worthy $100 to breathe new life for any owner. Highly recommended.

When I tried them at meets I never knew if they were supposed to just hang by your ears or have a little bit of clamping. I just thought they were made for larger heads. Never came across another headphone like that until tried the Abyss 1266 and don’t the fit of that either.

Good to know about the adapter but would that affect the sound? Seems pads have more effect on sound that I ever thought.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I could never get past the fit of the HP-1000 so I never pursued them. I moved on from the RS1 to the GS-1000 and knew this new sound wasn’t for me. Was going to go back to the RS1 until heard about the limited edition PS1. Even then I sometimes thought maybe I should have just stuck with the RS1 because the PS1 were too heavy and uncomfortable after a while. And while they were better than the RS1, the RS1 was just such a fun headphone but I haven’t listened to them since I sold them all those years ago. Not sure how I’d feel after owning the Caldera and having a very fun open headphone with great soundstage and deep bass.

I never tried the GS series or any of the newer headphones, as the consensus seems to be a bit underwhelming. Especially from older users that loved the originals. Maybe I'll get around to trying them one day.

 

[iamoneagain]

I never tried the GS series or any of the newer headphones, as the consensus seems to be a bit underwhelming. Especially from older users that loved the originals. Maybe I'll get around to trying them one day.

The biggest issue with the GS1000 and even the PS1000, at least when first came out is they were missing the Grado magic. They no longer had the famous PRaT and didn’t do as well on rock music. Felt too far away from the music. That was the worry of moving to different brands that had better soundstage. The Utopia still has PRaT but relatively small, but precise, soundstage. L3000 soundstage similar size but was darker and thicker sounding. Still very 3D. The Caldera is the biggest soundstage I’ve still enjoyed that doesn’t lose any of the fun. It still starts pretty close but goes out further. The Expanse were strange because only soundstage I thought started too close to your head. It went out a ways but somehow had claustrophobic effect for me sometimes.