[Brooko]

What would the change in tone be though ClieOS and why wouldn't it show up? if the freq response hasn't changed at all how would tonal change not br picked up by the freq curve?

 

[ClieOS]

What would the change in tone be though ClieOS and why wouldn't it show up? if the freq response hasn't changed at all how would tonal change not br picked up by the freq curve?

 
Because FR curve only tells you frequency response of the headphone, a rather one dimension picture of the whole audio chain. It doesn't tell you other changes such as phase shift and especially how the individual amp section response to different load (and remember there is also a difference between test tone and music). That creates a gap between what is recorded with measurement rig and what is actually happened on the field. The add impedance might not have much to do with the earbuds itself but that it changes how individual source reacts to the earbuds with and without the added impedance. The underlying assumption will be that all sources of every user out there will behave the same as the measurement rig you use, which I think can be quite a tall order, and that can certainly explain why someone might genuinely hear a difference. Of course, it can just as well be placebo.

 

[Brooko]

OK - but what would it manifest itself as?  You say a tonal shift - but this is something which doesn't sound right - because this would be picked up by frequency response.  If its warmer it'll be picked up as a rise in bass or a drop off in upper mid-range or treble.
 
And the guys commenting about changes were talking about big clearly noticeable changes.
 
I need to get my head around this.  Do you have any resource you can point me toward regarding current limiting transducers, and effect on tonality?  Surely it would be consistent - ie if you are current limiting a headphone it will always sound warmer or always sound thinner etc (remembering we are talking about a dynamic driver with an essentially flat impedance curve). And what will changes in phase manifest themselves as?
 
Any help you can give me would be appreciated.

 

[Brooko]

Also - as we already know the impedance, sensitivity, and the impedance of the adaptor that was used - what (low) output are we talking about (from the source) to make a difference?
 
Monk Plus = 64 ohm, sensitivity = 112 dB ~ 1 @mW
Added impedance adaptor was 75 ohms

 

[bolmeteus]

My ZEN 2.0 review is up!
http://www.head-fi.org/products/venture-electronics-ve-zen-v2/reviews/16004

 

[ClieOS]

Here are something interesting to read about:
 
This is done with Monk+ practically glued to the measurement rig so no movement is allowed. MP is first measured without the 75ohm adapter, but volume limited by software in order to have almost the same SPL as with 75ohm. Then  it is measured again with the 75ohm adapter attached. The FR curve is about the same, with less then 1dB of difference which is commonly smaller than what most believe is detectable by ears. The rest of the graphs look near identical (especially if you don't enlarge the pic), but I'll say there are some subtle change to their decay pattern. One of the most noticeable change is the phase has become more linear with the 75ohm adapter. I won't go as far as to say these are the definite proof of what you can / can't hear. But I think the better way to go around it is not by graphs but by blind test, and a lot of it too
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

 
Quote:

  OK - but what would it manifest itself as?  You say a tonal shift - but this is something which doesn't sound right - because this would be picked up by frequency response.  If its warmer it'll be picked up as a rise in bass or a drop off in upper mid-range or treble.
 
And the guys commenting about changes were talking about big clearly noticeable changes.
 
I need to get my head around this.  Do you have any resource you can point me toward regarding current limiting transducers, and effect on tonality?  Surely it would be consistent - ie if you are current limiting a headphone it will always sound warmer or always sound thinner etc (remembering we are talking about a dynamic driver with an essentially flat impedance curve). And what will changes in phase manifest themselves as?
 
Any help you can give me would be appreciated.

 

  Also - as we already know the impedance, sensitivity, and the impedance of the adaptor that was used - what (low) output are we talking about (from the source) to make a difference?
 
Monk Plus = 64 ohm, sensitivity = 112 dB ~ 1 @mW
Added impedance adaptor was 75 ohms

 
 
I don't think anyone has gone that far to built a rig to study how current output affects the sound, though we all know current is the other half of the equation in the (continuous) power output. For example, it is common understanding that what an amp can output for a square wave (such as what is done in measurement condition) is not that same as with dynamic signal (such as music playing), as dynamic signal can stress the output much easier than a square wave does in a very short amount of time.  Yet you rarely see any test on dynamic signal because labs test need to be designed to be highly repeatable and using music isn't that ideal. It would be interesting to see a standardize dynamic signal test though.
 
...btw, I am not saying I have heard or agreed that 75ohm bring some 'big clearly noticeable changes' myself, just that I don't think we can assume a 75ohm adapter should be seen as the only changed variable in everyone's setup. The only way to assume that is to eliminate all other variable in the first place.

 

[Brooko]

Thanks ClieOS - I'll have to get the LIMP manual out, and have a play with that myself.  I wonder how much that tiny shift in phase can affect the audio though.  I definitely couldn't hear a difference when I blind tested (after volume matching).  Out if interest - could you detect any difference?

 

[ClieOS]

  Thanks ClieOS - I'll have to get the LIMP manual out, and have a play with that myself.  I wonder how much that tiny shift in phase can affect the audio though.  I definitely couldn't hear a difference when I blind tested (after volume matching).  Out if interest - could you detect any difference?

 
On X5II, can't say I can tell if there is any difference between 75ohm adapter or not. But on Sony A15, I can just about tell there is a very subtle difference - but again, I know from previous measurement that A15's output is easily stressed when the volume is pushed higher and higher, so it could be the A15 is sounding different with different volume rather than anything is changed on the MP.

 

[leobigfield]

Edit: My Browser wasn't showing last posts, sorry 

 

[apmusson]

I have the Monk, Monk+ and Zen v2 earbuds and have paired them with Chord Mojo, iBasso DX90, Clip Zip and Tera Player with and without amplification via Meier Stepdance.

The only unamplified source that makes the Zen's sing is the Tera Player. The others succeed to various degrees but IMO the Tera is in a league of its own without additional amplification. All sources seem able to drive the Monks reasonably.

Amplification allows the Mojo to shine with Zen. In some ways it outshines unamplified Tera player (e.g. it brings out the best bass depth I have heard from the Zen). Amplification does not seem to be required for the Monk earbuds, bringing only minor improvements.

I am very happy with both the Zen and monk earbuds.

Ade

 

[Feilong4]

WOAH. Monk Plus on Massdrop? IN RED? I'm buying myself a couple.
 
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/venture-electronics-monk-plus-earbud

 

[satansmutt]

  WOAH. Monk Plus on Massdrop? IN RED? I'm buying myself a couple.
 
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/venture-electronics-monk-plus-earbud

 
Thanks for the heads-up I've just bought some, I don't really need any more earbuds at the moment especially not another pair of monks but still they are "red" and everyone should own a red pair of monks it's the law

 

[golov17]

Thanks for the heads-up I've just bought some, I don't really need any more earbuds at the moment especially not another pair of monks but still they are "[COLOR=FF0000]red[/COLOR]" and everyone should own a red pair of monks it's the law

 

[Wbmanns]

Help! VE Earbuds, Asura & Asura 2.0 or MusicMaker Tomahawk & Ting?

 

[golov17]

Help! VE Earbuds, Asura & Asura 2.0 or MusicMaker Tomahawk & Ting?

for what?