vb-audio cable, windows volume control?
Mar 12, 2016 at 7:30 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 19

BiggerHead

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So I'm using vb-audio cable (might switch to VAC but problem is same) to eq Netflix with electri-q.  The windows 10 (and I think 8) volume control, the one activate by the volume keys, defaults to controlling the active output device, not the master volume.  This does nothing with the virtual cables.  Anyone know a registry edit or something to fix this?
 
Mar 12, 2016 at 12:32 PM Post #2 of 19
I recall the windows volume control working on VAC when I have used it. There is a check box in the VAC control panel which enables volume control on the virtual device, make sure you have that checked. Perhaps VB-audio cable has a similar setting.
 
Mar 12, 2016 at 7:30 PM Post #3 of 19
Ok thanks.

I sure don't see any checkbox in the VAC trial version. There are two volume sliders on the "levels" tab: Line 1 and main volume.

The volume keys (which activate the on-screen volume display) adjust the line 1 volume slider, but it doesn't actually do anything. Changing the speaker volume works (because the sound outputs back to the speaker after eq) and changing the master volume on the mixer works (because it changes the all levels including the speaker.)

Anyway, thanks for the tip. I'll keep digging around.
 
Mar 13, 2016 at 7:01 AM Post #5 of 19
Thank you! And yes vb does have a similar panel, but sadly it has no such option. It also produces distortion that is quite noticable at least pure sine waves. VAC does seem overpriced but then there's nothing better. It *well, both) even somehow manages to break into DRM protected streams, like Netflix, where things like Equalizer APO cannot. (maybe I'm not allowed to say things like that).
 
Mar 14, 2016 at 10:49 AM Post #6 of 19
VB-Cable is just a cable to connect 2x applications together. Like in a true audio cable, there no gain control and windows audio control are not implemented (also to avoid confusing in audio transport).
 
If you need more Mixing / routing services, we recommend to use Voicemeeter, the virtual audio mixer for Windows.  
 
Mar 14, 2016 at 7:01 PM Post #7 of 19
It's not just a cable, it's a virtual sound card and virtual capture card (a real cable needs something to connect to), and the output on windows to an actual sound device with an actual output cable on it gets a windows volume control if its being used as the output device for the focussed application. If VB redirected control to somewhere else that could be ok, but instead you end up controlling nothing.  I can hardly see calling a lack of this, at least an option, a "feature" as you seem to be saying, but the price is fair so I won't complain.
 
At least as bad though is the distortion that vb cable adds.  Real cables don't do that.  It seems like some kind of harmonics, like listening to a triangle wave (but not that bad).  Maybe it's just on my computer since I don't notice anyone else reporting it, but VAC doesn't do it.   
 
Anyway, I'll give voicemeter a look.
 
Mar 15, 2016 at 3:05 AM Post #8 of 19
No, VB-CABLE is just a cable, it has been designed as a cable, nothing else (it's presented as audio device because there is no other way, but the function is to be a virtual cable, without any control, except internal samplerate). This cable is multiformat, it means it can support any sample rate or bit rate on input and output , that's why there can be some small distorsion due to SRC (sample rate conversion) - but if you configure it with the same internal samplerate than the input and output (see VBCABLE Control Panel) then you get a transparent cable.
 
if you want a bit perfect virtual cable (without SRC), you can use the VB-Audio HIFI Cable instead (exactly made for audiophiles).
 
to know more about configuring VB-CABLE: http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Cable/VBCABLE_SystemSettings.pdf
 
Voicemeeter is a virtual mixing console that will let you do what you want.
 
Mar 15, 2016 at 3:44 AM Post #9 of 19
Ok thanks for the reply.  I still take issue with the "real cable" analogy in the context of implying that it  justifies some functionality or lack there of.  Real cables don't connect applications.  They connect sound devices.  But if you don't want to say you're providing a virtual sound device, just a cable, then we aren't talking about anything like a real cable, but just an application layer so-called "cable" which has really no direct match in the physical world anyway, and so any analogy is whatever you want it to be.   But hey, it's not important.  It is what it is.
 
I haven't checked out the other options but I will.  I suspect they aren't donationware, which is fine.  No reason to give all the good stuff away.  I did play around with matching up sample rates, but that was before I found the control panel.  I used only the windows control panels, which do expose sampling rate options for the vb input and output devices.  I don't know if those are identical to the options in the vb control panel.  It doesn't help that these changes require reboots.  
 
I find it weird though to say vb-cable isn't for audiophiles, yet it doesn't need a volume control.  I assumed the reason it doesn't have one, and the reason VAC has it disabled by default, is so that people doing actual sound mixing won't have one more level control they forgot about that is effectively reducing bit depth.  Sounds like an audiophile kind of rational to me.
 
Still I suspect there's something wrong with, or at least improvable in the re-sampling. VAC doesn't have this, or not nearly as bad, regardless of the intput sampling rate.  But ok, you did say there's another product for better quality, although bit-perfect sounds to me like it's just back to avoiding the re-sampling entirely, not improving it.
 
Mar 15, 2016 at 3:59 AM Post #10 of 19
... and I see my assumption was false.  Voicemeter is also dontationware with a very reasonable suggested donation level.
 
I will give it a try as soon as I get a chance (meaning at least when I can reboot my computer
rolleyes.gif
)
 
Mar 15, 2016 at 7:05 AM Post #11 of 19
So first, fixing all the sampling rates everywhere did fix the distortion in VB-audio virtual cable (VC)!  Apparently I just didn't set in all four places (source, input side of cable, and output side of cable, all matched to speaker out)
 
Now voicemeeter  seems pretty nice.  
 
My first observation is that the distortion is gone with it regardless of any sample rate matching so this makes life much easier and doesn't require reboots if I want to use a different source!
 
However, it doesn't seem to allow volume-key control on the virtual input or virtual output, only the 1st hardware input, and the hardware output. 
So now the amusing bit is I can select the VB-audio virtual cable  (still installed separately)  as the hardware input device instead of using voicemeeter's built in virtual input.  And then of course I use the VB-audio cable for my application or default playback device instead of the voicemeter input (or output or whatever its called).
 
I could instead use a VB-audio  VC on the hardware output for the same effect(either harware input or output can be bound to volume keys), but I've only tried with input.
So now that gets the volume control working (yay), but sadly would bring back the sample rate touchiness, right?  ... Nope.  Hooked up like this the VC works just fine whatever sample rate source I give it!  Somehow voicemeeter makes the VC behave better.
 
So all is good!*
 
But probably I shouldn't need both tools to do this.
It would be better if one or both of these had this fixed.  Voicemeeter should allow volume key control on the virtual input and output.
 
*One last quirk, voicemeeter has two outputs, a hardware and virtual output, but it requires that you select a hardware output or nothing works.   You can mute it so that's ok right?  No, because if you select your speakers, you can't select them for the output from you audio filters/workstation/whatever.  So you need to have a second real or virtual hardware device available to waste.  My card presents a mme and wdm device and I just use a one for the real DAW output and the other for the muted voicemeeter output and that seems to work.  You could also use another virtual cable, trial or otherwise for this output.  But messing it up and accessing the same device from two places crashed the whole sound system once for me.  No sound to anything. So that's a little touchy.
 
Mar 15, 2016 at 10:47 AM Post #12 of 19
Voicemeeter is intended to become your main audio mixer. that's why device selected as output A1 (giving the Voicemeeter main stream) is openned in exclusive mode
(with WDM or KS interface) and could not be used by other application anymore (or could create audio conflict).
then you are expected to set Voicemeeter Virtual input as default playback device and connect all applications to Voicemeeter (including ASIO DAW).
 
All these things are explained in the user manual:
http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Voicemeeter/Voicemeeter_UserManual.pdf
 
Menu / HOT KEY are provided for output A1 only (to replace system volume keys)... but you can use MIDI controller for other gain sliders. Also the MacroButton application will give you to possibility to program button (with shortcut key) to control one or several paramters of Voicemeeter...
 
Note Voicemeeter Banana version provide a 8 Channels 6 Cells Full PArametric EQ opn every BUS to correct P.A. System or make active corssover...
 
BTW: a donationware is not exactly a freeware:
http://vb-audio.pagesperso-orange.fr/Voicemeeter/Donationware.htm
 
Mar 15, 2016 at 6:41 PM Post #13 of 19
Well I put the virtual cable on the wrong end.
 
The best way is to use the virtual mixer input as the default playback device for applications, and then use a separate virtual cable as the A1 hardware output device, and not use the virtual output device at all.  Either way you need voicemeeter AND a virtual cable to make it all work with volume control, but that solves the output selection issue.  You can also use asio4all on the output device, and while I did make that work for connecting to an asio daw, maybe it's not necessary.
 
I will point out that you still don't get an on-screen volume display.  VAC does work with the  windows on screen volume control.  So it's a bit more complicated in comparison and doesn't quite do it as well for just using it as a cable with a volume control, but you get some nice mixing ability, that includes asio out capability.  
 
Mar 16, 2016 at 9:07 AM Post #14 of 19
oh.. and I completely understand that donation ware isn't freeware. 
 
However, you can guess that I won't donate twice just because I end up needing both tools when one should be enough.  At least I wouldn't expect anyone would donate more than the VAC price, unless they find something about it more useful (and some things could be for some people).  I suspect that's inline with expectations or you wouldn't be putting it out there in more flexible pricing in direct competition to VAC.  
 
I will say the customer responsiveness is clearly a good sign!  I'm actually a little surprised you don't just stick a competitive price on it and be done with it. (but then you would probably want to work on a couple of these little issues I've brought up.  I'll sumarize the good and bad so far:
 
1) VB VC doesn't deal with sample rate mistmatches well without distorting, in my experience.
2) Changing sample rate settings requires reboots.
3) VB VC doesn't pass through or respond to volume key control. (unlike VAC)
 
4) VB VM DOES (optionally) react to volume keys for either input or output of the mixer(you choose)
5) BUT for VB VM volume control keys only work on hardware input and output... 
6) SO... VB VM requires a virtual cable connected to the hardware input or output in order to use volume key control.
7) To use the VB VM built-in virtual output you must anyway still select one "hardware" output that then can't be used by other software. (this can be a virtual cable though)
8) Because of 7 point 6 becomes a good idea again anyway if connecting to a DAW.
9) VB VM volume control via keys does not activate an onscreen volume overlay (unlike VAC, that does).
 
10) VB VM does seem to have a number of other features that could be useful (mixing obviously, network inputs apparently, asio output, and probably more) 
11) VB VM does seem to handle sample rate conversion well, seemingly even in situations where VB VC is attached and might otherwise have problems by itself (not all configurations tested)
 
Mar 16, 2016 at 10:44 AM Post #15 of 19
  1) VB VC doesn't deal with sample rate mistmatches well without distorting, in my experience.
2) Changing sample rate settings requires reboots.
3) VB VC doesn't pass through or respond to volume key control. (unlike VAC)
 
4) VB VM DOES (optionally) react to volume keys for either input or output of the mixer(you choose)
5) BUT for VB VM volume control keys only work on hardware input and output...
6) SO... VB VM requires a virtual cable connected to the hardware input or output in order to use volume key control.
7) To use the VB VM built-in virtual output you must anyway still select one "hardware" output that then can't be used by other software. (this can be a virtual cable though)
8) Because of 7 point 6 becomes a good idea again anyway if connecting to a DAW.
9) VB VM volume control via keys does not activate an onscreen volume overlay (unlike VAC, that does).
 
10) VB VM does seem to have a number of other features that could be useful (mixing obviously, network inputs apparently, asio output, and probably more)
11) VB VM does seem to handle sample rate conversion well, seemingly even in situations where VB VC is attached and might otherwise have problems by itself (not all configurations tested)

 
thanks for your remarks
 
1) Well, normally not very hearable (would like to be sure about what you hear exactly).
2) Changing sampling rate of VAIO (not Voicemeeter preffered SR) requires REBOOT (which not a regular usagge today - but an option for expert).
3) VBCABLE does not implement any Windows Control to avoid configuration problem yes.
6) you can use KEY Control propose by Voicemeeter Menu.
11) internal SRC in Voicemeeter or VBCABLE allow to make any kind of connection without having to configure audio device or applications... this is the main problem when inter-connecting different devices or applications...
 

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