[Hyde00]

So, two new additions to the brotherhood. Well... it's Tesla E88CC gold and Siemens E88CC. Site decided to run problems with loading picture, I had to attach it. In that review I will compare new tubes to Tesla E88CC blue tip as reference, it's much more easier than search micronuances in that number of tubes I listened.

Tesla E88CC gold had almost similar sound signature to It's non gold, blue tip variant. But it has lower resolution in all ways. That's must be the cause why military chose for them blue tipped tubes (not for headphone amps of course). Otherway good tube, cost me 13 USD.

Siemens E88CC has very clean, engaging sound with good tight bass. Exellent but pricy 29 USD tube.

About 6N23P tubes. I have 3 types of them: original 6N23P, and two improved 6N23P-EV of Reflektor and Foton plants, 1974 and 1982 years of production respectively. All tubes shares a little coked highs, meaty bass, slightly aggressive sound. In fact I do prefer Foton 6N23P-EV of that three tubes. But even with it when I start to listen for example heavy rock composition and first happy with rude sound that I get, I eventualy begin to lower volume of amp because that soun is fatiguing. I can withstand around 11 o'clock level half an hour I think and get volume down. With sound pressure relief dissapears detail and clarity, sound becomes muffled. I don't have so called "holy grail version", didn't find information on it, officially it never called that name. It always amused me that fancy name you add to selling goods name makes them twice of their prcie (bad boys, copper bells, holy hand grenade)...

In my opinion in one tube amplifier which you can not switch tumbler to another tube when changing music genre it would be wise to have one tube that is universal. For 6922 types for me it is Siemens E88CC. For lower price Tesla E88CC blue tip. Tesla E88CC gold at least. There are much more expensive and rare tubes of course but mentioned above are of good availabilty.

Heyyyy thank you for the update!

I think I most likely would stick to just 1 tube for a while so like you said sounds like it's best to go for Siemens E88CC > Tesla E88CC blue tip > Tesla E88CC gold pin depending on availability and prices.

Just to clarify, the Tesla E88CC 32 that you had, that is the blue tip variant right? Is it the "32" variant that indicated it's the blue tip variant?

Also where do you get them at such good prices LOL? I vaguely remember a reply you had earlier, is it that you live in a country that just has good and easy access to a lot of nice and cheap tubes?

Otherwise thank you for the very thorough review, I'll most likely order a tube first while waiting for my Vali 2+. Schiit mentioned because there is parts shortage so the Vali 2+ won't be shipped until March 25. So this give me some time to hunt down the tube first.

Again much appreciated on your feedback!!!

 

[M4573rm1nd]

Heyyyy thank you for the update!

I think I most likely would stick to just 1 tube for a while so like you said sounds like it's best to go for Siemens E88CC > Tesla E88CC blue tip > Tesla E88CC gold pin depending on availability and prices.

Just to clarify, the Tesla E88CC 32 that you had, that is the blue tip variant right? Is it the "32" variant that indicated it's the blue tip variant?

Also where do you get them at such good prices LOL? I vaguely remember a reply you had earlier, is it that you live in a country that just has good and easy access to a lot of nice and cheap tubes?

Otherwise thank you for the very thorough review, I'll most likely order a tube first while waiting for my Vali 2+. Schiit mentioned because there is parts shortage so the Vali 2+ won't be shipped until March 25. So this give me some time to hunt down the tube first.

Again much appreciated on your feedback!!!

Tesla tubes produced on 2 plants: 32 and 37, and there is information that 37 plant was held to more tight tolerances and strict QC. Blue tipped Tesla can be either from 32 or 37 as well. I had 4 tubes produced on 32 plant and exchanged 2 of them to 37 plant tubes. As they will come to me I will make comparison.

Conclusively I'm on big positive impression from Siemens E88CC: it's very natural sounding, fast and detailed tube, with tight bass, vivid mids and smooth highs. From look of it it's middle 1960's version. Going after more expensive E188C (73 USD) may come cost inefficient...

- Photo added for more informability to previous posts.
- Added conclusive answer.

 

[InvisibleInk]

Tesla tubes produced on 2 plants: 32 and 37, and there is information that 37 plant was held to more tight tolerances and strict QC. Blue tipped Tesla can be either from 32 or 37 as well. I had 4 tubes produced on 32 plant and exchanged 2 of them to 37 plant tubes. As they will come to me I will make comparison.

Conclusively I'm on big positive impression from Siemens E88CC: it's very natural sounding, fast and detailed tube, with tight bass, vivid mids and smooth highs. From look of it it's middle 1960's version. Going after more expensive E188C (73 USD) may come cost inefficient...

- Photo added for more informability to previous posts.
- Added conclusive answer.

How do we know we are getting a tube from 37 plant?

 

[M4573rm1nd]

How do we know we are getting a tube from 37 plant?

A very good question indeed. I wil try to fully cover it with my answer.

 

[Hyde00]

A very good question indeed. I wil try to fully cover it with my answer.

Lol it's good to know the blue tip is exactly as its name suggests..... blue tip LOL.

Thanks for the picture!

 

[M4573rm1nd]

Lol it's good to know the blue tip is exactly as its name suggests..... blue tip LOL.

Thanks for the picture!

In fact number 32 also exactly suggests that this tube was produced on 32 plant

 

[InvisibleInk]

A very good question indeed. I wil try to fully cover it with my answer.

Ha! Russian humor... nothing like it anywhere else.

 

[Ripper2860]

Lol it's good to know the blue tip is exactly as its name suggests..... blue tip LOL.

Thanks for the picture!

IIRC, Blue tip signifies that it meets stricter requirements to be used in Tektronics test gear like O scopes. Red is HP, I believe. Heck, I may have it backwards, but a colored tip typically signifies passing of a higher standard for use in test equipment.

 

[Hyde00]

IIRC, Blue tip signifies that it meets stricter requirements to be used in Tektronics test gear like O scopes. Red is HP, I believe. Heck, I may have it backwards, but a colored tip typically signifies passing of a higher standard for use in test equipment.

Out of curiosity I looked up to see if there's a blue tip Siemens E88CC, can't find any.

I guess not all tube have blue tip variants.

 

[Hyde00]

Oh and it might be way late to ask this point but, am I safe to assume tube to do make a decent amount of difference on Vali 2+?

What I mean is that there's one review I read on head-fi, the reviewer find that most Schiit tube amps more or less retain the "Schiit House Sound". As in they get more soundstage / extension.......etc but for the most part the general sound signature retain more or less the same.

Also from what I read Vali 2 (not 2+) tend to sound the same no matter what tube used (maybe the solid state portion has more influence than the tube portion).

But from M4573rm1nd's review we can clearly see each tube sound different. So I do hope this aspect was improved for Vali 2+.

Also it sounds like low gain it will sound more solid state while high gain you get a bit more tube influence, is it true?

Sorry I'm still waiting for my Vali 2+ to ship so this is all just research I did while waiting.

 

[Mr Trev]

I've read opinions on both sides of the matter. One person will hear a small, but noticable change in sound, but somebody in this thread (or the other vali2 thread) actually bought 2 amps and matching tubes and wasn't able to tell the difference in tubes.
IME, I really can't tell much of a difference between tubes in the same family (6922, for example). I do hear a difference when changing types of tubes (6922 to 6cg7)
I think really is rather subjective though, depending on a person's hearing, preferences and other equipment.

I've also read that high gain does have higher distortion (the good kind) than low and theoretically should sound tubier.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I may be opening a can of worms, but what tubves you guys recommend for a decent analog-ish tubey sound that is sweeter than stock. I'll be receivinbg a Vali 2+ fr impressions in the immediate future, and wanna roll a contrasty tube. I'm confident enough to feel like I'll hear the difference, so someone HALP me plz. Nothing crazy expensive.

Eh, I'll look around.

 

[M4573rm1nd]

Oh and it might be way late to ask this point but, am I safe to assume tube to do make a decent amount of difference on Vali 2+?

What I mean is that there's one review I read on head-fi, the reviewer find that most Schiit tube amps more or less retain the "Schiit House Sound". As in they get more soundstage / extension.......etc but for the most part the general sound signature retain more or less the same.

Also from what I read Vali 2 (not 2+) tend to sound the same no matter what tube used (maybe the solid state portion has more influence than the tube portion).

But from M4573rm1nd's review we can clearly see each tube sound different. So I do hope this aspect was improved for Vali 2+.

Also it sounds like low gain it will sound more solid state while high gain you get a bit more tube influence, is it true?

Sorry I'm still waiting for my Vali 2+ to ship so this is all just research I did while waiting.

I wouldn't say that the tubes sounds completely different and you will be able to undoubtfully say that is 6922EH and that is 6BZ7 when to A to B comparing them. Sometimes it can be very similar sound with micro nuances difference.

What I can clearly confirm and agree with Mr Trev that 6CG7 sounds different to 6922 type of tubes. Also I can mention that brach of 6N23P, 6N23P-EV and 6922EH sharing one sound signature (so if you want to try 6N23P-EV you can save some money and buy 6922EH, gold would be good).

I never use high gain on my Vali2+ it's became to loud and shouty, unpleasant. There is only one tube from my stock that benefits from high gain.

 

[Hyde00]

I've read opinions on both sides of the matter. One person will hear a small, but noticable change in sound, but somebody in this thread (or the other vali2 thread) actually bought 2 amps and matching tubes and wasn't able to tell the difference in tubes.
IME, I really can't tell much of a difference between tubes in the same family (6922, for example). I do hear a difference when changing types of tubes (6922 to 6cg7)
I think really is rather subjective though, depending on a person's hearing, preferences and other equipment.

I've also read that high gain does have higher distortion (the good kind) than low and theoretically should sound tubier.

lol yes I saw that post on reddit, the guy who bought 2 Vali and a Sys so he can A/B between the 2 amps quickly. And he mentioned he hear almost zero difference and while made me a bit hesitant a while back. But then now I'm hearing good reports on Vali 2+ so I decide to give it a shot again.

I've also read another review where they couldn't tell any difference between Vali 2 and Magni 3 so the initial thought was like uhhhh then what's the point to get tube???

Though I'm usually pretty sensitive to changes between dac / amp / gain switches since I always check with the same headphone, so hopefully I'll notice something when I get my unit. Also Vali 1 was suppose to be the more tubey one then Vali 2 is like linear then Vali 2+ is linear with stock tube I think, but hopefully tubey enough with other tubes.

I wouldn't say that the tubes sounds completely different and you will be able to undoubtfully say that is 6922EH and that is 6BZ7 when to A to B comparing them. Sometimes it can be very similar sound with micro nuances difference.

What I can clearly confirm and agree with Mr Trev that 6CG7 sounds different to 6922 type of tubes. Also I can mention that brach of 6N23P, 6N23P-EV and 6922EH sharing one sound signature (so if you want to try 6N23P-EV you can save some money and buy 6922EH, gold would be good).

I never use high gain on my Vali2+ it's became to loud and shouty, unpleasant. There is only one tube from my stock that benefits from high gain.

lol I'll do a test when I get my unit, looking forward to it though. Also thank you for your suggestions on the tubes, make the whole process of jumping into the tube world less scary.

 

[Hyde00]

I may be opening a can of worms, but what tubves you guys recommend for a decent analog-ish tubey sound that is sweeter than stock. I'll be receivinbg a Vali 2+ fr impressions in the immediate future, and wanna roll a contrasty tube. I'm confident enough to feel like I'll hear the difference, so someone HALP me plz. Nothing crazy expensive.

Eh, I'll look around.

If you go one page prior to this, M4573rm1nd wrote a pretty detailed comparison with a bunch of tubes:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-372#post-16235896
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-372#post-16251414
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/vali-2-tube-rolling.793982/page-372#post-16251442

But the summary is sort of like go for Siemens E88CC or Tesla E88CC Blue Tip or Tesla E88CC gold pin.

Though I don't know it would be "tubey" enough for what you're looking for. I think hybrid amp (half tube half solid state) design usually has limitation on how far it can push as oppose to like OTL amps (full tube). But OTL amps you're kind of limited to using 300 Ohm+ headphones. Different pros and cons.

EDIT: Wait I just realize you're Mad Lust Envy I think usually they send you products to review right? LOL I guess you want something that sounds very different for review purpose right? In that case then I'm not too sure LOL good luck! Also looking forward to your impressions.