[KoshNaranek]

If I recall correctly it was rather unique -- similar to a Frankie (Frankimposter) but the flashing did not go far enough down and it had hanging filament-like objects extending below the flashing. It did not look like an umbrella top mica spacer like the 6SN7W or WGTAs. If that was the one, it certainly was a unique tube unlike any I'd Sylvie I'd ever seen or own. I know Frankie and that was no Frankie.

Or maybe it was anotherf -- hell, I've slept and drank since then!!

Just a moment.... Do I interpret the above post as a @Ripper2860 defense of @bcowen????!!!!

 

[Paladin79]

Just a moment.... Do I interpret the above post as a @Ripper2860 defense of @bcowen????!!!!

Doubtful. I got some of my information second hand on the Frankies and as best I can tell Bill is the resident expert on those. Now Sylvania naughty girls I know well but I change the information any time someone asks so hard telling what misconceptions are out there.

Oh also I should state that both Ripper and Old Deaf Donkey had copies of my tube list before Bill announced his choices. Bill does need to get some RCA grey glass though, I have had a black glass but it did not impress me as much as other tubes.

 

[Ripper2860]

Well, suffice it to say that this was a great idea and fun for all of us that were following it and taking pot-shots at Bill. Thanks to Tom for putting this together and devoting the time, effort, and $$ to make it happen. Thanks to Bill for accepting the the challenge and devoting the time and effort to seriously engage in the process. While Bill did not win the contest, he certainly has proven himself a great sport!! Kudos to both of you!!

 

[Ripper2860]

Just a moment.... Do I interpret the above post as a @Ripper2860 defense of @bcowen????!!!!

Yes.. I really must stop posting while drinking. I get all sentimental and schiit.

 

[Paladin79]

Well, suffice it to say that this was a great idea and fun for all of us that were following it and taking pot-shots at Bill. Thanks to Tom for putting this together and devoting the time, effort, and $$ to make it happen. Thanks to Bill for accepting the the challenge and devoting the time and effort to seriously engage in the process. While Bill did not win the contest, he certainly has proven himself a great sport!! Kudos to both of you!!

Truth be told I probably had the equivalent of five steak dinners in tubes I bought only to find out that Sylvania made a certain Bendix etc. I even told friends who sell tubes what I was doing and they still sent me renamed brands lol. I just hope to get all tubes back one day and do not open them to find Bill has purchased more GE tubes and replaced my originals. The GE used was fairly modern since it was a GTB but i did not want to run the risk of sneaking a Sylvania or Ken-Rad in on Bill. I must also say that I used some really talented people to help, but none of them could have done what Bill did and gone in blind and given the information that he gave so I am truly impressed by his abilities.

 

[Ripper2860]

There's no denying that Bill is a 'Tube Whisperer!!'

 

[Paladin79]

There's no denying that Bill is a 'Tube Whisperer!!'

I considered offering Bill double or nothing if he picked wrong but he gave me every indication that if it was not tube one, it was tube three, the GE and it is against my nature to walk into a bet that is already lost. His second pick would have been spot on.

While I am going to do the steak dinner and BIG bottle of wine I will make every effort to send Bill a nice grey glass RCA for offering the steak in the first place.

 

[Ripper2860]

Tom -- you are a real gentleman and scholar!!

 

[TK16]

If it is not obvious to everyone, I'll explain @bcowen disappearance from this thread tonight. Obviously he is spending all his free time listening to the now confirmed GE tube.

 

[Old Deaf Donkey]

OK. Here's the official skinny: Tom won. The tube I picked as the GE was actually...…..a Melz. Go figure. It was the ear bleeder and first tube I tried. I put it back in several times later on just to see if my initial impression was wrong, but I just couldn't listen to if for more than 30 seconds without my ears hurting. Why? I don't know. Melz are not known for being ear bleeders. I had some holey plate versions before that didn't do that, and have some non-holey plates still at hand that don't do that. But that tube didn't get a lot of play time due to the pain inflicted. I was going to say maybe it's break-in related, but then remembered Tom might read this. Doesn't matter...I picked the wrong tube regardless. I did correctly identify the GE as the 2nd worst sounding. Surprisingly it was not an ear bleeder, but was just a dull, boring, and lifeless sounding tube. Definition of 'meh.' Sounded like you were in the very back row of a large concert hall and every seat in front of you was occupied by Weight Watchers members in their first week of the program. So, although I lost the contest fair and square, the GE still sucks.

I got the Foton right, missed on the KenRad and RCA, neither of which I have, but both at the top of the list of my favorites of this group. Surprisingly as well, I did not correctly identify the Frankie. Very strange, as I popped my Lansdale in several times during the test just to keep my bearings, and the "test" Frankentube doesn't sound anything like mine. Tom may not have used a genuine Frankie (he was depending on info from @Ripper2860 which would explain that) There's a substantial sonic difference in a true Frankie and a 'not exactly.' We're still investigating and discussing this one. Doesn't change the outcome of the contest, was just surprising.

So congrats, Tom! And more importantly, thanks for taking the time (and the expense) of putting all this together. A good learning experience, even for lifelong tubeheads like myself.

Congratulations to @bcowen on his awesome abilities to identify tubes by their sound. A contest is a contest and rules are rules, but in my view your results are excellent. You also proved your point, and now I am proud to only have 1 GE tube (a 5670), and will not ever consider acquiring more of this brand!

Many thanks to @Paladin79 for investing thought, expertise, time and $$$ in setting up the contest. This has been a major effort and a great fun for me to follow it - and an opportunity to learn something.

I do have one used RCA grey glass which I picked up for peanuts, and I like it very much. I just bought 5 more used ones for only $90. I also have 2 new true Frankies made by Lansdale Tube Co., and they do sound great, just occasionally for my deaf ears something is lacking very slightly in the depth of the bass of some of the recordings on one of the tubes - or maybe I imagine it. Foton ribbed plate 1951 is in the mail, struggling its way from Ukraine, and I still have to find a Ken-Rad black glass for a price that does not hurt. So this tube list has been very relevant to me.

Thank you both once again. Enjoy the steak and claret!

 

[Paladin79]

Congratulations to @bcowen on his awesome abilities to identify tubes by their sound. A contest is a contest and rules are rules, but in my view your results are excellent. You also proved your point, and now I am proud to only have 1 GE tube (a 5670), and will not ever consider acquiring more of this brand!

Many thanks to @Paladin79 for investing thought, expertise, time and $$$ in setting up the contest. This has been a major effort and a great fun for me to follow it - and an opportunity to learn something.

I do have one used RCA grey glass which I picked up for peanuts, and I like it very much. I just bought 5 more used ones for only $90. I also have 2 new true Frankies made by Lansdale Tube Co., and they do sound great, just occasionally for my deaf ears something is lacking very slightly in the depth of the bass of some of the recordings on one of the tubes - or maybe I imagine it. Foton ribbed plate 1951 is in the mail, struggling its way from Ukraine, and I still have to find a Ken-Rad black glass for a price that does not hurt. So this tube list has been very relevant to me.

Thank you both once again. Enjoy the steak and claret!

ODD you have some very good tubes on the way and thank you for the kind words. In Bill's descriptions of the tubes he sent me, he said this about the GE..

"If not the GE, then probably a run-of-the-mill Sylvania chrome dome or late RCA."

In order to make this more fair, I tried to use cream of the crop RCA and Sylvania. I need to check out the Melz I used cause that tested very well here. It was not a 1578 but fairly close IMHO. I do not know Electro-Harmonix that well but it was the one clinker in my opinion, the one tube at the end that might cause Bill to flip a coin. It did come down to just a couple tubes for Bill, just not the two I expected.

 

[bcowen]

1. Melz 6H8C 1956 (Russian)
2. Sylvania 7N7 tall body (what Bill calls the Frankie) Not a Frankie after all just a tall body
3. GE 6SN7GTB
4. RCA 6sn7GT grey glass
5. Ken-Rad VT-231 Black Glass
6. Electro Harmonix 6SN7 (Russian)
7. Foton 1954 ribbed plates 6H8C (another Bill favorite) (Russian)
8. Sylvania VT-231 (bad boy)

9. This tube is an alternate and only available in case a tube fails Westinghouse 6SN7

Here is the official list of the tubes used. Bill was very close and only the Melz through him off. Now the amazing part of that story is all tubes were tested on the same equipment, and listened to by myself and a group of audiophiles. I had four of the Melz of that type and they were rated fairly highly by the group, only beat out by the RCA Grey glass to the best of my recollection. I chose the one out of the four with the best emission and balance. While all tubes between brands never test quite the same a lot of time went into their selection. The GE tested above the Electro Harmonix in the group and even did well against some other tubes that will remain nameless at this time.

As you can probably see by this list, there were some very good candidates, I tried to give Bill some clear choices and at least one that was marginal. He was a gentleman throughout this ordeal and I commend his efforts. If you are in the states and would like to check out these tubes and see how you do, Bill will change the numbers around so they do not correspond with what you see here and he will send them on to the next person.

The 7N7 tall body did not make a difference in the outcome of this and I do believe the term Frankie is of Bills invention but I could be wrong. I purposely put that tube and the Foton in the group because Bill knows them well.

The setup was pretty experimental so it could be the Melz could not take the strain of being confined or some of that great Russian solder gave way in the pins. I do not recall if I replaced the solder in said tube.

He got the Bad Boy right by the way as far as identification of other tubes.

This was my personal preference rating of the tubes above, inn order of best to worst:

5 (KenRad VT231)
4 (RCA gray glass)
7 (Foton)
8 (Bad Boy)
2 (7N7 Tall bottle...but not a Frankie)
6 (Electro Harmonix)
3 (GE)
1 (Melz)

I was surprised at the first two...they had an involvement and musicality factor that I really liked. I could live happily with any of the 3 of them and not feel like I was ever missing anything. The Bad Boy sounded quite good, but lacked that groove thing the first 3 had in spades. On the 7N7, yes, I was the person that coined the Frankie moniker. I started out with 3 different brands of 7N7's, not knowing at the time they were all made by Sylvania. Then I read in a couple places that the tall bottle versions of this tube sounded better than the short bottles, and the ones I had purchased were all short bottles. I stumbled across the Lansdale 7N7 on Ebay for $5, bought it, and had one of those What moments when I first turned it on. So I a bought a bunch more 7N7's of different brand, configuration, bottle size, date, etc. I thought if the construction of that Lansdale (made by Sylvania) was so special, maybe there was an even better sounding version out there. But no. I have probably 100 7N7's with lots of different brands and construction, and none get even close to the sonic quality of the particular construction details of the Frankie. And those details are just as specific as a Bad Boy. It's got to have ALL the exact details, or it's just a tall bottle 7N7 and not a Frankie. Maybe there's an even better sounding version than the Frankie, but I haven't found it if it exists and it's not for lack of trying. ​

 

[bcowen]

I beg to differ. I was not consulted regarding the 'Frankie'.

Had to blame something on you. Seemed only logical.

 

[Paladin79]

This was my personal preference rating of the tubes above, inn order of best to worst:

5 (KenRad VT231)
4 (RCA gray glass)
7 (Foton)
8 (Bad Boy)
2 (7N7 Tall bottle...but not a Frankie)
6 (Electro Harmonix)
3 (GE)
1 (Melz)

I was surprised at the first two...they had an involvement and musicality factor that I really liked. I could live happily with any of the 3 of them and not feel like I was ever missing anything. The Bad Boy sounded quite good, but lacked that groove thing the first 3 had in spades. On the 7N7, yes, I was the person that coined the Frankie moniker. I started out with 3 different brands of 7N7's, not knowing at the time they were all made by Sylvania. Then I read in a couple places that the tall bottle versions of this tube sounded better than the short bottles, and the ones I had purchased were all short bottles. I stumbled across the Lansdale 7N7 on Ebay for $5, bought it, and had one of those What moments when I first turned it on. So I a bought a bunch more 7N7's of different brand, configuration, bottle size, date, etc. I thought if the construction of that Lansdale (made by Sylvania) was so special, maybe there was an even better sounding version out there. But no. I have probably 100 7N7's with lots of different brands and construction, and none get even close to the sonic quality of the particular construction details of the Frankie. And those details are just as specific as a Bad Boy. It's got to have ALL the exact details, or it's just a tall bottle 7N7 and not a Frankie. Maybe there's an even better sounding version than the Frankie, but I haven't found it if it exists and it's not for lack of trying. ​

I may have to look through my tube stash later since you liked the Ken Rad best, they do turn up on occasion and I try to grab them when I can. The grey glass RCA is what got me away from using 12AU7's whatsoever in the BH Crack.

 

[bcowen]

Just a moment.... Do I interpret the above post as a @Ripper2860 defense of @bcowen????!!!!

That would be way too strange. You must have read it wrong.