Both my buddy and I had a strange experience with v-moda retailers. I bought a matte black pair from guitar center. When I got them home I found that the box was already opened and the warranty packet was missing. I went back to Guitar Center to raise hell and found out they sold me a demo pair. They made it right by letting me exchange them for the shadows for no additional cost.
My buddy had the exact same experience from best buy. He bought a matte black set and same thing; box was open and warranty packet missing. These turned out to be a demo pair too. This isn't v-moda's fault, but it would be nice if they'd have a word with their retailers because it feels like something shady is going on with the warranty cards.
I bought the white color one in a shop in Thailand while on vacation. It turns out that it had a cracked plastic and the color somehow looks dirty. I did swap it back to the shop but ended up they don't have another white color which is very dissapointing (though the ribbon is in place) I think Vmoda should have a better quality control before distributing it's product. The same quality issue happen also with the XL Pads which is looks flattened and distorted (UGLY)
I tried comparing two versions of a song I mastered. At around an average intensity the song sounded more refined on my ATH-700, but the M-100 responded better to a more aggressively tuned intensity. Does this sound about right to the audio engineers here? I'm tempted to master it with with the latter despite many engineers disliking the louder approach.
I would say go ahead and lean towards louder. I try to give the listener enough signal that they're getting some juice at low volumes, but I try to stay away from destroying the punchy transients.
With mastering, definitely use something closer to neutral. A lot of mastering engineers say headphones suck for mixing and mastering, because they can rarely ever get to actual neutrality. They only use headphone for a very specific part of the mastering process and speakers for the rest.
I mix and master with these and it works great. You may not want touch an eq that affect the highs and mids while using them, but so far as mixing and mastering they are great.
The low end response and sensitivity really shows me how everything is working together and how tight it is in more controlled environment than the room I work in. The amount of bass allows me to hear and feel how my limiter and compressors are affecting the bass transients. When I'm using my monitors I exaggerate the level of my sub slightly for the same reason. My mastering improved by a lot.
Another thought:
Also another thought I have about the EQ of these headphones. A lot of people turn their nose up to these because they aren't flat, but what to perfectly flat headphones really sound like? They probably don't sound like flat studio monitors in a treated room. A flat driver firing right into your earhole gives a different sound than flat speakers pointing at you from the front with air in between. To me headphones that have a dip around or right after 4khz sound the most like what I expect and I've noticed most audiophile headphones that get the best reviews have it.
The Focal monitor headhphones that came out a few years ago got rave reviews about their sound from engineers around the world(but not the comfort or build lol). Finally a headphone that sounds like a real monitoring setup that we can mix and master with! Guess what though. Look at that frequency response. It doesn't look that damn different than the M100s. The lows tower over the highs and mids by a large amount. There's a huge dip starting right at 4khz.
In Conclusion: I'm waiting for people in lab coats to all come out and tell everyone that I'm not crazy.
I mix and master with these and it works great. You may not want touch an eq that affect the highs and mids while using them, but so far as mixing and mastering they are great.
The low end response and sensitivity really shows me how everything is working together and how tight it is in more controlled environment than the room I work in. The amount of bass allows me to hear and feel how my limiter and compressors are affecting the bass transients. When I'm using my monitors I exaggerate the level of my sub slightly for the same reason. My mastering improved by a lot.
Another thought:
Also another thought I have about the EQ of these headphones. A lot of people turn their nose up to these because they aren't flat, but what to perfectly flat headphones really sound like? They probably don't sound like flat studio monitors in a treated room. A flat driver firing right into your earhole gives a different sound than flat speakers pointing at you from the front with air in between. To me headphones that have a dip around or right after 4khz sound the most like what I expect and I've noticed most audiophile headphones that get the best reviews have it.
The Focal monitor headhphones that came out a few years ago got rave reviews about their sound from engineers around the world(but not the comfort or build lol). Finally a headphone that sounds like a real monitoring setup that we can mix and master with! Guess what though. Look at that frequency response. It doesn't look that damn different than the M100s. The lows tower over the highs and mids by a large amount. There's a huge dip starting right at 4khz.
In Conclusion: I'm waiting for people in lab coats to all come out and tell everyone that I'm not crazy.
Here are some examples of metal/experimental. I used an unusual mix style on both of these where everything was tightly controlled down to the lowest frrequencies and the end result is something you can actually turn up loud without hurting your ears. I've gotten better since these, but I don't have anything publicly uploaded. And as for electronic I would have to make a demo reel or something.
Here are some examples of metal/experimental. I used an unusual mix style on both of these where everything was tightly controlled down to the lowest frrequencies and the end result is something you can actually turn up loud without hurting your ears. I've gotten better since these, but I don't have anything publicly uploaded. And as for electronic I would have to make a demo reel or something.
My M100's are out on loan at the moment, so I can't listen to those tracks with them unfortunately. But they sound friggin' awesome with the Nighthawks. You get my big time vote for how you mixed them. Pretty incredible playing as well (whomever that was).
Actually, can you explain your processes in more detail? There are certain parts of the process where checking with headphones would be just fine and actually encouraged. Although, certain parts, it would definitely be preferable to have the headphone be neutral. Sometimes, too, you'll also want to make sure it doesn't sound bad with more bassy option (depends on your kind of music verses what kind of music people would listen to on those headphones).
Also, lemme challenge your "neutral speakers have more bass than neutral headphones" theory.
With speakers, you have the sound coming at you in a more natural manner. You'll be able to feel the bass a little bit. Make of that what you will, but I think that'll give the illusion of "more bass". In reality, that is the same amount of bass doing the same things to other sounds as a neutral headphone. Another thing, some of those lower frequencies, in headphones, won't even have time to make a full wave before they reach you. I'm not sure what that does, but I just thought I'd put it in there. Both of these things could be influencing your perception. Why this means anything is the sound will have the same effect on other sounds regardless of whether you feel it or not. This could end up being really important in critical areas in a song or any soundtrack.
I enjoy these kinds of debates. It's great to see people trying to challenge our current meta in mixing and mastering. It means people are trying to innovate and that is good.
My M100's are out on loan at the moment, so I can't listen to those tracks with them unfortunately. But they sound friggin' awesome with the Nighthawks. You get my big time vote for how you mixed them. Pretty incredible playing as well (whomever that was).
No M100s required! I was trying to make it translate to everything! Thanks! The first track is me, not really displaying any technical chops there, the second video is my friend Jim.
Actually, can you explain your processes in more detail? There are certain parts of the process where checking with headphones would be just fine and actually encouraged. Although, certain parts, it would definitely be preferable to have the headphone be neutral. Sometimes, too, you'll also want to make sure it doesn't sound bad with more bassy option (depends on your kind of music verses what kind of music people would listen to on those headphones).
Also, lemme challenge your "neutral speakers have more bass than neutral headphones" theory.
With speakers, you have the sound coming at you in a more natural manner. You'll be able to feel the bass a little bit. Make of that what you will, but I think that'll give the illusion of "more bass". In reality, that is the same amount of bass doing the same things to other sounds as a neutral headphone. Another thing, some of those lower frequencies, in headphones, won't even have time to make a full wave before they reach you. I'm not sure what that does, but I just thought I'd put it in there. Both of these things could be influencing your perception. Why this means anything is the sound will have the same effect on other sounds regardless of whether you feel it or not. This could end up being really important in critical areas in a song or any soundtrack.
I enjoy these kinds of debates. It's great to see people trying to challenge our current meta in mixing and mastering. It means people are trying to innovate and that is good.
I'll tell you about my monitoring during each stage of recording:
Dialing stage:The guitar and bass tone mic placement and amp settings are adjusted and dialed in listening to one monitor. I prefer the right one. A mono signal sounds weird coming from both monitors and it affects my ability to make decisions. It's probably something about the way monitors are angled inwards toward the listener than affect the soundwaves. It's fine for listening, but when dialing an amp it makes it difficult. The guitar and bass tones are critical and the most complicated and difficult part of a mix.
Tracking stage:I make a fast mix using my monitors after tracking enough parts. I make this mix just for playback purposes to evaluate takes. This mix is about 80% as good as the final one. I may load in a master bus that I have saved while listening back to takes.
Mixing and mastering stage:For the real mixing I switch to my HRT microstreamer and M100s. This is how the mix is pretty much completed. I set the levels of the guitars and bass and the level of each individual drum and the cymbals, room, reverb etc. I activate and make adjustments to the master bus processing that includes a compressor to make the mix sound cohesive and an intelligent lookahead limiter for loudness and excitement. The last thing I have in the chain is an analyzer that gives me live stats and graphs while the song is playing. Looking at RMS power displayed in real time gives me an idea of where I am in terms of the presence of low frequencies vs. loudness while I use the M100s to carefully observe the transients of the low frequencies stay intact.
-I'm is usually done at this point the next step can be skipped most of the time
Translation Check:From there I might check with my monitors with the subwoofer deactivated, then activated, then at different levels. I will listen with my ATHM50s sometimes just because it's another thing a I have available, I completely don't trust them for anything. I might go out to my car as well, but honestly my car stereo eq is set to compensate for thin mixes, and often I take checking something in my car with a grain of salt. My mixes are thicker than most and after I'm done eqing my stereo for my mix it has no value to hear it in the car.
About the frequency response of headphones, human hearing, and audio recording:
I'm not an expert but I have a feeling it has a lot to do with the shape of the ear. We perceive location using left and right balance and frequency response. Rub your pointer finger and thumb together and move your hand around your head. The sound will be smooth in front left and front right, smooth in the center and the most detailed and treble intese directly next to your ear. Behind you it's dull and that's how you perceive location.
Headphones just blast right into the hole and you play back something that was created by someone listening to flat speakers that were in front of them. HOWEVER classical music is just reproducing how something sounded in person. Open back flat headphones and VOILA. You're reproducing something that happened and was simply captured with a neutral mic placement rather something that was crafted. I think that's why a classical listener wants flat open backs.
Rock, metal, electronic and pop mixes are all built. They do not resemble real life, they sound better than reality because each element has a mic exactly where it sounds best. You have to listen to it back the way the engineer was.
I think the crowdsourcing on the M100s did the trick for matching what I expect to hear when I listen to audio equipment.
Originally Posted by Andii /img/forum/go_quote.gif
About the frequency response of headphones, human hearing, and audio recording:
I'm not an expert but I have a feeling it has a lot to do with the shape of the ear. We perceive location using left and right balance and frequency response. Rub your pointer finger and thumb together and move your hand around your head. The sound will be smooth in front left and front right, smooth in the center and the most detailed and treble intense directly next to your ear. Behind you it's dull and that's how you perceive location.
Headphones just blast right into the hole and you play back something that was created by someone listening to flat speakers that were in front of them. HOWEVER classical music is just reproducing how something sounded in person. Open back flat headphones and VOILA. You're reproducing something that happened and was simply captured with a neutral mic placement rather something that was crafted. I think that's why a classical listener wants flat open backs.
Rock, metal, electronic and pop mixes are all built. They do not resemble real life, they sound better than reality because each element has a mic exactly where it sounds best. You have to listen to it back the way the engineer was.
I think the crowdsourcing on the M100s did the trick for matching what I expect to hear when I listen to audio equipment.
The goal of a truly neutral headphone is to best compensate for the curves in our ears. The problem is there's variation. Certain headphones like the NQ90 that's gonna come out soon and the K1000 do things to fix that, but normal headphones that don't do that can only do so much (Being open helps). What headphones have you heard that people have said sound neutral?
Your thoughts about how those mixes always end up being different intrigues me, but remember that sound is still sound. If you have the same amount of bass in a headphone as you do a speaker, it should translate exactly the same on a mix.
Let's try a different perspective, though. What if what you perceive as extra bass is actually affecting how you're making your mixes. That would be an interesting concept to dwelve in, but I'm afraid I don't have the resources or hearing to be able to give an accurate answer.
My M100's are out on loan at the moment, so I can't listen to those tracks with them unfortunately. But they sound friggin' awesome with the Nighthawks. You get my big time vote for how you mixed them. Pretty incredible playing as well (whomever that was).
Well the shadows I exchanged for the matte black showed up yesterday. These came directly from Guitar Center's warehouse and what do you know, these have been opened too.
Why the holy crap is it so hard for Guitar Center to sell something without opening it first? I've had it with this company.
Anyone looking for audio gear locally avoid Guitar Center like the plague.
Val, get your distributors in line. This is ridiculous. I've had 3 sets of m100's from GC and 2 where opened and passed off as new.
Well in a sense, making people mix their stuff with a bassy headphones is a good prevention tool for boomy songs with overpowered bass and no details. :rolleyes:
What up yall. I just joined the m100 club, got mine today from Amazon.
The sound stage is small. when I game.
have not got the xl pads yet.
m100 is a very sexy headphone, i got the black version with red stripes on the side.
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. We should swap Z7 for Nighthawk for a week 
.
