[bigshot]

BNC connectors or bust!

 

[samuelawachie]

I’ve been following this discussion for months now, and it’s both been informative, annoying and slightly funny.
I have phones (Android and iPhones) that all have headphone jacks and of course Bluetooth. I have the LGV10 (that bootlooped and hence unusable now), an ancient Galaxy S4 (i9500 with the Wolfson audio chip), and an iPhone 6s.
I have the Bose QC-25 with a Bluetooth 5.0 wireless dongle that attaches to the headphone itself.
The S4 is now what I usually use for music (and only for that purpose alone) coz it’s rooted and I have Dolby Digital Plus + Viper4Android on that. That combination with Poweramp make it better than my 6s and as close as I remember to the departed V10 (RIP).
Bluetooth while a better convenience is not better for me when I decide to listen to music at home coz that particular DD+ DSP can only work with the headphone jack. Those DSPs have really transformed that S4 to sounding really really fantastic. It also has a custom ROM (the Aurora S7 port) that really brought the phone back to life for me.

That’s just the limitation of Bluetooth for me. That on certain phones, some sound quality MODs can only work with the headphone jack

 

[bigshot]

At home, I usually use my computer, either with AAC files I’ve ripped myself, or streaming from Amazon or Apple Music. I have speakers and an amp that is always turned on in my work room. An Apple airport is connected to it. So I can throw to it wirelessly with Wi-Fi. Wi Fi or Bluetooth doesn’t really matter to me. But I already had the airports to extend my Wi-Fi network.

They make little Bluetooth receivers that output to line out, don’t they?

 

[hakunamakaka]

All you have to do is go back in Head Fi to threads when the iPhone had headphone out or line out through the dock. Audiophools constantly complained about the sound quality of the headphone jack (usually incorrectly). There was a perception that amping the line out for full sized cans was inferior to using a DAC/amp (also incorrect). It didn't matter that the analog circuitry was capable of transparent sound. The most requested feature on iPhones by audiophiles was digital out. Audiophiles tend to prefer more boxes and more cables to do the same thing as one black box and one cable. That perception goes back to when cheap "all in one" stereos started being released in the early 70s, and audiophiles gravitated toward separate turntable / tuner / preamp / amp systems. Head Fi is full of photos of posters' portable rigs that looks like mad scientist experiments.

If Apple put three types of output in the iPhone: headphone out, line out, direct digital out, then they would be obligated to make all of those options available in all of their audio related products. If you are streaming from one thing to another, and plugging things together, it makes sense to keep things digital until the transducers stage. Digital isn't subject to stacking up levels of noise, and it's infinitely flexible. Apple has plans to do sophisticated signal processing. Spatial audio is just the beginning of that. You can't do that with analog connections. They are transitioning their users' hardware before they fully introduce the technology to iOS. At this point, perfect sounding DACs are dirt cheap. The Apple dongle is as clean and compact as you could wish for and it's $8. There is no downside to that.

As for the headphone jack being a limitation for water resistance... Here is a blast from the past. https://harvestcellular.net/iphone-water-damage-sensor-location/ I would bet that doing away with the headphone jack cut problems with water in half.

If you want to complain about features designed specifically for limiting choice for financial reasons, the lightning adapter is a much better example than lack of headphone out. There really is no reason why Apple uses that little paddle instead of usb-c like everyone else. Perhaps it's easier to waterproof a lightning connection. I don't know.

EDIT: Just googled... Lightning is more waterproof than USB-C or MagSafe. https://www.macrumors.com/2021/03/02/iphone-keeping-lightning-no-usb-c/ I know when I slipped up and my iPhone 8 fell in the toilet, it was a BIG problem to get it dry and working again. My iPhone 12 is rated as completely waterproof if I want to go swimming with it.

There are waterproof phones with 3.5mm jack and I doubt that such company as apple couldn't figure that out. At that time getting rid of 3.5mm jack was purely based to boost airpod sales.

3.5mm jack would still be the norm, but apple completely dictates the market. I can give them credit for their software which is very efficient and the most user friendly, but even there they were not innovative. Apple OS is based on very stable FreeBSD which has ben for years.

 

[bigshot]

Well, the tree that bends in the wind is the one that survives the storm.

 

[bfreedma]

There are waterproof phones with 3.5mm jack and I doubt that such company as apple couldn't figure that out. At that time getting rid of 3.5mm jack was purely based to boost airpod sales.

3.5mm jack would still be the norm, but apple completely dictates the market. I can give them credit for their software which is very efficient and the most user friendly, but even there they were not innovative. Apple OS is based on very stable FreeBSD which has ben for years.

The conspiracy theories being tossed out in this thread are both amusing and utterly incorrect.

The 3.5 jack was removed from phones because a preponderance of market studies found that the single most desired improvement was to make phones thinner. Thinner than the housing for the 3.5mm jack, so the jack was replaced by a flat/thin multifunction connector and Bluetooth. Selling wireless headphones was a nice secondary for Apple, but the desire to sell AirPods was most certainly not the reason for the elimination of the jack.

As for having a manufacturer custom build a phone with a 3.5mm jack, better have at least 8-10 million to spend to support the retooling necessary to build a new version. Had a good chuckle when someone in this thread thought a one off phone could be had for $2000.

 

[bigshot]

That makes sense, although my iPhone 12 looks like it could fit a headphone jack if they wanted to put one in. iPhones have started to thicken up again.

 

[bfreedma]

I’m not sure the newer iPhones are thick enough to include a 3.5mm jack, but even if they are, the connector is bulky and would not fit under the edge to edge screen in current phones. So the only way to include it would be to lengthen the phone case and not have an edge to edge screen or to reduce the screen size.

The general public wants large screens that cover the entire front of the phone - even the camera notches in the top center of phones are now gone for this reason. The percentage of people who would sacrifice screen real estate and phone form factor for a 3.5mm jack is far too small for the phone manufacturers to worry about. That’s not a value judgement, just the reality of the market/industry.

 

[bigshot]

The iPhone 12 is probably thick enough for a headphone jack, but the other models are thinner because they have smaller batteries. The decision was probably made for the whole line, even if it might be possible for certain models.

 

[punkedrock]

Okay, first of all 3.5mm is okayish at best, and doesn't hold a candle to balanced.
Secondly, usb-c is unbelievably superior to standard non-digital electric. I just can't wait for SQ Thunderbolt connections, literally can't wait.

 

[bigshot]

For the purposes of typical home audio rigs, a plug is a plug. If they wear out, that’s obviously not good, and neither is RF interference. But those things aren’t common with decent cables. All plugs should be audibly transparent at the same volume level.

 

[Davesrose]

That makes sense, although my iPhone 12 looks like it could fit a headphone jack if they wanted to put one in. iPhones have started to thicken up again.

I just put up my DAP to my iPhone 12 Pro Max bevel....it seems the dimension for the jack actually goes right to the borders (so I do think its too big considering the housing also has to make room for screen and other electronics). They haven't really thickened up: their bevels have just gone from curved to square. I'm also assuming getting rid of this port for just one primary data/power port makes room for larger battery and other components. Having longer battery life would be another reason why I wouldn't care about an adapter for wired headphone.

 

[hakunamakaka]

The conspiracy theories being tossed out in this thread are both amusing and utterly incorrect.

The 3.5 jack was removed from phones because a preponderance of market studies found that the single most desired improvement was to make phones thinner. Thinner than the housing for the 3.5mm jack, so the jack was replaced by a flat/thin multifunction connector and Bluetooth. Selling wireless headphones was a nice secondary for Apple, but the desire to sell AirPods was most certainly not the reason for the elimination of the jack.

As for having a manufacturer custom build a phone with a 3.5mm jack, better have at least 8-10 million to spend to support the retooling necessary to build a new version. Had a good chuckle when someone in this thread thought a one off phone could be had for $2000.

Where did you pulled that out ? Iphone 6 with headhone jack was the slimmest release (6.9mm depth) going onwards. Surely the dates of 3.5mm removal and release of AirPods was accidental match....

It was a simple move to grow their sales and pull an extra cash from consumers. They could easily leave 3.5mm or release AirPods earlier and let consumers decide, but this would vastly hurt sales and popularity of Airpods.

At the end Apple is a company focused on revenue. Their sales teams plans on such moves to make the best decision which would fit company in terms of profit and future growth. Apple knew that they were way ahead against it's competitors and consumers are hooked with their OS. Any other phone manufacturing company with their sluggish androids would have been turned to dust with such move.

I find it strange that some people believe that Apple is nearly altruistic company...they wouldn't be of what they are today in such case and you don't need an economy degree to understand that. Not hating Apple as they release good products (I'm mainly apple user myself), but it's obvious to see.

 

[bfreedma]

Where did you pulled that out ? Iphone 6 with headhone jack was the slimmest release (6.9mm depth) going onwards. Surely the dates of 3.5mm removal and release of AirPods was accidental match....

It was a simple move to grow their sales and pull an extra cash from consumers. They could easily leave 3.5mm or release AirPods earlier and let consumers decide, but this would vastly hurt sales and popularity of Airpods.

At the end Apple is a company focused on revenue. Their sales teams plans on such moves to make the best decision which would fit company in terms of profit and future growth. Apple knew that they were way ahead against it's competitors and consumers are hooked with their OS. Any other phone manufacturing company with their sluggish androids would have been turned to dust with such move.

I find it strange that some people believe that Apple is nearly altruistic company...they wouldn't be of what they are today in such case and you don't need an economy degree to understand that. Not hating Apple as they release good products (I'm mainly apple user myself), but it's obvious to see.

No one has claimed Apple is altruistic. Apple made a business decision based on market research and the knowledge that universal connectors were coming, with lightning being a step in that direction knowing that USB-C was coming. Consumers want thin phones with full frame screens and long battery life. All design elements in conflict with a space eating 3.5mm jack assembly.

But feel free to carry on with your conspiracy theories. They are very entertaining and thankfully in this case, harmless.

 

[hakunamakaka]

No one has claimed Apple is altruistic. Apple made a business decision based on market research and the knowledge that universal connectors were coming, with lightning being a step in that direction knowing that USB-C was coming. Consumers want thin phones with full frame screens and long battery life. All design elements in conflict with a space eating 3.5mm jack assembly.

But feel free to carry on with your conspiracy theories. They are very entertaining and thankfully in this case, harmless.

You got lost in your own thoughts with all these markets researchs and USB-C connectors.

I’m just stating facts that iphone 6 was thinnest and headphone jack was dropped with release of AirPods. This directly impacted sales growth and paved the road for Airpods. You are free to believe whatever for all I care