[chadbang]

I was looking for a review on the Shanling CD T-100 CD Player, and I found this review by Thorsten Loesch at enjoythemusic (Why do I know that name, Thorsten Loesch, hmm?). Here's the article:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...2/shanling.htm

In the end, the part that intriqued me most were his comments about upsampling. Now, I have never heard an upsampling player, although I'm excited about the prospect of getting more out of my redbook cds. My question has always been: HOW will upsampling get more out of them? If this reviewer's observation is correct, then I might want to pass on upsampling altogether.

This quote is extracted from the review:

"This player sounds so drastically different depending upon the specific use and connection that it is hard to say, “This player sounds like that and only like that!”. I will start by covering (and getting out of the way) the upsampling section. I have again and again tried it, it is easily switched on from the remote control. The changes in sound are hardly subtle and broadly mirror those I noted with other upsampler DAC’s and external upsamplers, including the dCS Purcell. I can understand why some Audiophiles like the effect of upsampling, I do not. What some hear as great detail I hear as excessive brightness and edginess. The soundstage gains loads of fake depth but narrows considerably and instruments appear to have smeared along a gradient in the depth. I found the upsampling to work just like all the other “upsamplers” I came across and to me PERSONALLY this feature could have been left out. It is nice of Shanling to give you the choice though. If you like what upsampling does, enjoy it, if you don’t, just switch it off as I did."


If upsampling lends "excessive brightness and edginess" to a cd, then I, too, would not enjoy upsampling. Does his observation concur with anyone else's experience with upsampling players?

 

[Tuberoller]

The statements the reviewer makes about upsampling paint all upsampling players and DACs with the same broad brush.Upsampling players are as unique as other players in sonics and execution.I have heard some upsamplers that I was not fond of and I have heard upsampling that made me never want to turn back to conventional redbook.I happen to think that upsampling is the very best thing to ever happen to redbook digital.The increases in detail and frequency extension at both ends of the spectrum are amazing on the upsamplers that get it right.Those that get it wrong have all the problems he described.I have described some of those same problems,in almost the exact same words he has.I have never been a big fan of the Shandling CDT-100 and the time I spent with it in my system was not pleasant.It only makes sense that some listeners would not like the effects of upsampling.I suggest an audition of at least one upsampler DAC or CDP before any conclusions are drawn.

 

[pigmode]

Interesting, but I wouldn't take that as gospel.

The one upsampling DAC I heard did lean to the HI-FI side of things, but I think that is what most listeners want.

Personally I am going the non-upsampling route, but I have a sound preference that for the most part leans away from the majority.

 

[morphsci]

Well I can't really take the review very seriously since I do not know the associated equipment that was used for the review.

For example, when listening to Transcendental Blues, on my Sony 333es with Marantz MA500's amplifying the signal, I thought it was very hard, edgy and strident. When I replaced the MA500's with Outlaw M200's, that harshness was transformed into layers of smooth detail. Nothing else in the system changed. YMMV

 

[carlo]

Quote:

I found this review by Thorsten Loesch at enjoythemusic (Why do I know that name, Thorsten Loesch, hmm?)

He builds DACs and stereo components for fun, frequent poster to AA and has reviewed for enjoythemusic, tnt-audio, and others.

Here's his system listing, scroll down. Yes, he does know his ****.

re upsampling: depends on the unit and the listener. No absolutes in audio.

 

[bubblegummy]

To be honest with you guys, when I switch on the upsampling mode in my 963SA player, there is a sence of brightness and I don't like it. I still prefer Music Hall CD25 for redbook CD playback.

That's just my opinion. Also, it depends on your system as well.

 

[morphsci]

Quote:

Originally posted by carlo He builds DACs and stereo components for fun, frequent poster to AA and has reviewed for enjoythemusic, tnt-audio, and others. Here's his system listing, scroll down. Yes, he does know his ****. re upsampling: depends on the unit and the listener. No absolutes in audio.

Nice system. My point was that any professional review of a component needs to include the associated components within the review. Without them one cannot place what is heard into a correct perspective. A simple link to his system in the review would have solved the problem for me.

I never doubted what he heard, only that it is meaningless to me unless I have a context for evaluating it, since as you stated, "No absolutes in audio".

After having seen his system I can now properly place his comments based upon the components he prefers into a better context of how I am likely to perceive the same sonic signature. Also since upsampling is based upon a mathematical algorithm I agree with tuberoller and expect a lot of variation in its (successful) implementation.

 

[grinch]

zanth has a modded version of this player and although i don't recall hearing him talk about the upsampling on it directly, he does really like it. i believe he's compared it to the cary 303/200 and 306/200, so i'm hoping he comments in this thread.

this is not the first negative review i've heard of upsampling, specifically the "fake depth" comments. i haven't yet heard an upsampling player myself, but i'm interested and hopefully soon i'll get the chance to.

 

[carlo]

morphsci,

It wasn't an attack or anything, just information. I agree that enjoythemusic should take care to note what system reviewers use, but for whatever reason they don't always. Obviously you're entirely correct in wanting to know associated components when weighing the value of a review.

The name was familiar to chadbang for a reason, and it might just be because the guy is very well respected among audio circles. Some here don't know who he is, now they do

carlo.

 

[morphsci]

It's

I didn't think it was an attack. I always appreciate seeing different systems, especially those with interesting DIY components.

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

and it might just be because the guy is very well respected among audio circles. Some here don't know who he is, now they do

He's also very not respected in certain circles as well. He doesn't even appear at asylum anymore. I'm not knocking his knowledge or expertise...

 

[carlo]

grinch,

Damn, I didn't know zanth had heard the 306/200 (I think I knew about the 303/200), much less compared it to the Shanling. The 306/200 w/upsampling engaged blew my mind.

(btw, I like the new avatar)

pig,

I've hardly been to AA since coming here (I only have interest in chilling on one forum, and AA got old after a while). Sounds like I missed something "interesting"

carlo.