Upgradeitis! (Denon c700 rant and questions)

[chinesekiwi]

See, I was happy with my RE2's and even more happy when I paired it up with my cheap buy surprisingly okay Fiio amp but then I saw some Denon's C700's up for sale locally at a good price (considering local prices) so I leaped onto it.

After burning the C700's in (18 hours) and trying them in an indoor quiet-ish environment I thought, oh yes all well and good. The next day I tried them in an outdoor environment and this is when things get annoying.

I love the extra detail that came with the c700's but the forward mids arn't for me. If there were 10 rows in a concert hall, I'd prefer being in row 5 while there c700's are in row 3. It can get really annoying for some songs, such as Porcupine Tree songs when 80% of the time it's in the midrange. I loved hearing stuff in hip-hop songs I never heard before such as in J-Live songs, background vocals that weren't there in the RE2.
I loved also how the C700's handled fast attacking music with ease and clarity in which you could clearly hear every note in that fast passage.
The c700's excel for trance music and made my trance music experience so heavenly.

But the biggest issue for me so far since I use canalphones/IEM's outdoors, is the isolation which I've probably nailed down to a fit issue as there are times in which wind passes through the ear like in a tunnel = usually fit issue.

My first question is will the Sony EX series tips, which I heard are better than the default Denon tips, solve the fit and isolation issue? Also will the Sony tips alter the sound in anyway and if so, how as by experience, different tips do alter the sound?

Another annoying thing is the dilemma I have when I pair the c700's up with my Fiio amp. With the RE2's, the Fiio amp was great as it widened the soundstage of the RE2's whilst giving it the much needed bass boost. There was some added sibilance that came with that but nothing I couldn't handle/be annoyed about.

However when I paired up the c700's with the Fiio, I loved the added 'omph' it gave the C700's and it definitely widened the soundstage a bit too which I liked but the really bad thing was that it made the guitars of songs sound quite dark and unnatural which annoyed me a bit.

At the moment, I really dunno if the Denon's are for me and I am looking at the CK7's but I'm highly discouraged by the huge burn-in time it needs.

Also another question is since I've only burnt in the c700's for 18 hours, will more burn in help?

Damn upgraditis giving me this dilemma

What should I do?
The lack of isolation is really starting to annoy me with the C700's

 

[monolith]

Well, if you're looking for good isolation you're using the wrong kind of earphone. You want some IEMs, rather than canalphones like you have.

If you can find some kind of foam tips that fit the Denons you have it'll improve things, as will wearing them looped over your ear, but you'll never get really good isolation out of C700s or RE2s, etc.

Also, don't worry about burn in. Any burn in time required by drivers that small will be minimal. Just listen to them.

 

[lewislink]

All you need to do is tweak your EQ. The middle section, dealing with the mids, is all you'll have to tweak. Once done, give them some time for you to adjust to the tweak and see how good they are.

 

[voicemaster]

Denon canalphone series are known to have so-so isolation, also depends on the fit and seal you got from the tips. I always use my C700 whenever my parents are listening to music or watching TV. The isolation, i feel is really good as i can't hear any of that sound while i using my C700 (music on ofc) and knowing my parents they have a very bad hearing lol and always turn the volume very high.
1st thing you want to do is changing the tips to Sony EX series (both has same size, so if mid denon tip fit you then sony mid tip will fit you as well). I find the denon's tip to not seal very much, might be because of different material (Denon tips looks abit matte while Sony is glossy).
2nd thing you want to do is burning in the C700 more (i know people say 20-24 hours burning will change the sound, but further burning in will change it even more like about 100 hours). All you have to do is listening to music with it and it will burn in in no time without you even realize it.
If you hearing the sound of wind like in the tunnel or something, it must be because of the big hole at the back of the case catching the wind inside of it and bouncing inside of it. I think that hole actually make the C700/C551 sound very airy kind of like open headphones.
If you still not satisfy with the isolation, i suggest you buy a real IEM (shures, UE, Westone, Sleek, etc etc) that actually goes very deep into your ear and guaranteed 18+ dB isolation (especially those triple flange tips, always wondering how people fit that thing into their ears xD).

 

[chinesekiwi]

See, I have no problems with the isolation of canalphones it's just that the isolation could be better like in my RE2's with the large biflanges = very good isolation for a canalphone. But hey with the burn-in, nothing like burning them in overnight/ at IT school whilst doing work can't do to speed things up.

Anyway, after a bit of experimentation, I've tweaked the EQ to this:

Flat @ 80 Hz
Flat @ 500 Hz
+1 @ 1.1 kHz
+1 @ 4.1 kHz (I like brightness, I had it at +2 on the RE2's but to counter the hump, lowered it to +1)
+4 @ 11.7 kHz since I like brightness + the c700's according to this graph rolls off a bit at around 8 kHz:

Also, I've stopped using the Fiio with it QQ.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Grzz at expensive EX tips at the official Sony store in town..but where else can I buy them here...*sigh*
Will definitely try these out though and if they fit well = less noise coming in = more isolation = all good

 

[lewislink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chinesekiwi /img/forum/go_quote.gif See, I have no problems with the isolation of canalphones it's just that the isolation could be better like in my RE2's with the large biflanges = very good isolation for a canalphone. But hey with the burn-in, nothing like burning them in overnight/ at IT school whilst doing work can't do to speed things up. Anyway, after a bit of experimentation, I've tweaked the EQ to this: Flat @ 80 Hz Flat @ 500 Hz +1 @ 1.1 kHz +1 @ 4.1 kHz (I like brightness, I had it at +2 on the RE2's but to counter the hump, lowered it to +1) +4 @ 11.7 kHz since I like brightness + the c700's according to this graph rolls off a bit at around 8 kHz: Also, I've stopped using the Fiio with it QQ.

You are using a pink noise generator, aren't you? That graph is one sided.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lewislink /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are using a pink noise generator, aren't you? That graph is one sided.

Not my graph

Anyway, using a mixture of pink and white noise in burn-in.

 

[lewislink]

Ah...

 

[jonathanjong]

Wanna buy some Comply tips together?

Cheapest to get them from the U.S., even though the U.K. is closer by. Even after shipping.

I called Sony, and they told me they didn't stock the EX tips! *grrr*

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanjong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wanna buy some Comply tips together? Cheapest to get them from the U.S., even though the U.K. is closer by. Even after shipping. I called Sony, and they told me they didn't stock the EX tips! *grrr*

They do. Go into the 'Sony Style' stores. They just don't stock them officially.

 

[jonathanjong]

Bizarre sales behaviour, that. Don't you have to mod the EX tips to fit on the Denons though? Poke them or smth?

 

[lewislink]

Hmmm...I may have to take another look at the sleeves that came with my Sony DAPs. They should be the exact same as the EX85s since that's about what the supplied phones are.

 

[chinesekiwi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathanjong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bizarre sales behaviour, that. Don't you have to mod the EX tips to fit on the Denons though? Poke them or smth?

Nah, it's just they have spares in the cabinet sort of thing

 

[Wmcmanus]

I've edited the thread title. Please don't bypass the language filters with #%@* types of characters, particularly in thread titles. Although no offense is ever intended in these matters, we do have some very young members who are impressionable.