[iriverdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lescanard /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have the Total Bithead.

Still using line out from mac though?

 

[lescanard]

I'm using the USB port on the Mac to the Total Bithead.

 

[ScottieB]

Can agree with a lot said here, so here's my points (as always, IMO)...

the Senns will be more forgiving of the low quality files (I include 256 in that as well) - the Grados will really accentuate the shortcomings of mp3. Sennheiser just has a "smoother" sound signature.

Agree with the fact that Senns will require a better amp, but have found that the 325is improves a great bit with a good amp, too - more than the 225.

If you go Grado, personally I'd recommend skipping the 225 and going to the 325 or higher. The 225 was very similar to the 80 to my ears. I really love the 325s though.

I find the Sennheiser (600s) a better "all-arounder" than the Grados, but I listen to a lot of Rock, so my Grados get more use. I like variety though and purposely got headphones that sound quite different.

 

[lescanard]

I've had a bit of an epiphany here...the premise from which this thread started has morph'd a bit. First I appreciate the different opinions - what a great forum. I have learned a lot reading your posts as well as a variety of other related forums.

#1 - As it's kind of become part of my topic here I find myself sitting here in my living room as I type this painstakingly re-ripping "most" of my cds to lossless format. Just what the hell I needed - another 2 month project that will drive my wife crazy. After reading your posts - I decided to pull a cd from the attic - re-ripped it and compared the lossless to a 128kbps bit rate song and was pretty shocked at the difference. Although I expected it to be better - I'm really at a loss to explain how much more improved the music sounds on both my Senn595s and Grado sr60s.

#2 - Since my library is so huge - and includes so many different bit rates - I've decided I'll just create a 2nd library (on an external hard drive) and re-rip the cds I love most, then mix in some "higher" bit rate AAC tunes that I enjoy the most as well. This will be the library I listen to when I finally decide on what my top end phones will be and jus want to really enjoy the music. The rest of the time - I'll just enjoy the music for what it is with my sr60s. This decision came from what many of you said - which led me to another thread I found that was about whether or not people "could" enjoy lossy music with their best cans. Great thread with some interesting input.

#3 - Finally - as far as the headphones - I've appreciated the posts and suggestions from many of you. I've been listening to both the Grados and Senns back and forth for about 3-4 days now. Now that I have some lossless samples its really been a treat. I'm thinking of getting the 225is even though 595s sound so good to me now (and I'll keep them). I'm thinking after some of the suggestions I've read that the 650s would require a pretty substantial (although if I get a RSA Predator or Pico USB Dac/Amp combo I have read that either could pair up nicely with them). Anyway - although I never suggested that the sr60s were comparable to the 595s - I really like their sound and from what I've heard the 225s would be a great jump up. Would still have my 595s for a different Senn sound and as I mentioned at the start - I really like changing it up from night to night.

Thanks again for your input - its been enlightening if not made me want to spend a ton of dough for bigger and better everything!

 

[ScottieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lescanard /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've had a bit of an epiphany here...the premise from which this thread started has morph'd a bit. First I appreciate the different opinions - what a great forum. I have learned a lot reading your posts as well as a variety of other related forums. #1 - As it's kind of become part of my topic here I find myself sitting here in my living room as I type this painstakingly re-ripping "most" of my cds to lossless format. Just what the hell I needed - another 2 month project that will drive my wife crazy. After reading your posts - I decided to pull a cd from the attic - re-ripped it and compared the lossless to a 128kbps bit rate song and was pretty shocked at the difference. Although I expected it to be better - I'm really at a loss to explain how much more improved the music sounds on both my Senn595s and Grado sr60s.

To this point, I've found I notice these things even more when I step back down... once I got used to lossless, I could tell when I heard mp3s - something was just missing. The step down always feels larger than the step up to me - goes for visuals too (like 8-bit to 16-bit graphics back in the day, or dvd to blu-ray).

 

[lescanard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottieB /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you go Grado, personally I'd recommend skipping the 225 and going to the 325 or higher. The 225 was very similar to the 80 to my ears. I really love the 325s though. I find the Sennheiser (600s) a better "all-arounder" than the Grados, but I listen to a lot of Rock, so my Grados get more use. I like variety though and purposely got headphones that sound quite different.

I've been reading up on the 325s - you mention you listen to a lot of Rock (not sure what type of rock you refer to) - considering I like what I would consider more Classic Rock (vs Metal etc.) but really love more of that Indie/Americana/Roots Rock sound (with guitars, vocals and acoustics) - would you still recommend the 325s over the 225s (since you've had both)? They definitely interest me but I have no way to hear them in advance living here on the opposite end of the state (with no real good music stores).

 

[ScottieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lescanard /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been reading up on the 325s - you mention you listen to a lot of Rock (not sure what type of rock you refer to) - considering I like what I would consider more Classic Rock (vs Metal etc.) but really love more of that Indie/Americana/Roots Rock sound (with guitars, vocals and acoustics) - would you still recommend the 325s over the 225s (since you've had both)? They definitely interest me but I have no way to hear them in advance living here on the opposite end of the state (with no real good music stores).

Yes, actually I would. I listen to all kinds of rock from metal to classic rock. I love the way Grados make string instruments sound - even for classical - although the lack of soundstage hurts them for that genre. I just found that the 325 was a bigger step up from the 80s than the 225 was - they have more bass, and a richer sound - just more of everything. To be fair, I haven't heard the new 225i, though - the ones I had were the old ones. I am finding the 325 more comfortable than I remember the 225 being, too - but the bowls may have been getting old. I sold my 225s after I got the HD600, but missed the Grado guitar sound. I was a little wary of going to the 325, but don't regret it at all.

 

[Miths]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottieB /img/forum/go_quote.gif To this point, I've found I notice these things even more when I step back down... once I got used to lossless, I could tell when I heard mp3s - something was just missing. The step down always feels larger than the step up to me - goes for visuals too (like 8-bit to 16-bit graphics back in the day, or dvd to blu-ray).

My ears definitely don't seem to match up to those of the average head-fi member.
Around half of the music collection I listen to on my main setup (in my sig) are the new 256 kbit AAC files from iTunes - converted to 320 kbit MP3 (not sure what's lost during that process, but I figured I would rather set the bitrate too high) to make them playable on my PS3.
The other half consists of CDs, occasionally played directly (the PS3 outputting at 88.2 KHz over optical to my DacMagic), but more often as 320 kbit MP3s ripped directly with the PS3 (no lossless support, yet, unfortunately), as disc juggling just feels like such an annoying and outdated concept to me here in 2009. Not to mention that it makes it rather difficult to make multi-artist playlists.

Aside from genererally never giving the least bit thought to the converted iTunes files sounding "bad", I do have a couple of those albums on CD as well (The Corrs Unplugged and Sarah McLachlan's Closer), and I've really been straining my ears to try to notice small differences - going as far as switching between brief 10-20 seconds samples of each format.
Occasionally I think I hear a miniscule difference in a certain tone here, or a an ever so slightly more dynamic representation there. But then I do the comparison again and it's gone - though I may (think I) notice something else instead.

I'm not trying to argue that some people can't genuinely hear the differences - somethings gotta go when you compress data after all - but with my hearing it distinctly looks like the only things I'm occasionally hearing are small figments of my own imagination

.

Now that DVD to Blu-ray comparison you mentioned on the other hand - you would have to be virtually blind (or sitting a mile away from your TV) not to spot the huge difference between a good BD transfer and DVD

.
I'm inclined to say that the audio differences between CD/lossless and 256/320 kbit MP3/other format are rather more subtle than the visual differences between BD vs. DVD.

 

[tdogzthmn]

I agree with ScottieB about lossy vs lossless. It differs from song to song, but I have noticed that lossy tends to sound flatter and less dynamic than lossless. The difference is not large but the more you get used to higher quality bit rates you notice more when you hear something like 320 and down. However the way most new songs are mastered I think the rift is closing and it all sounds like drivel.

 

[limpidglitch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottieB /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, actually I would. I listen to all kinds of rock from metal to classic rock. I love the way Grados make string instruments sound - even for classical - although the lack of soundstage hurts them for that genre. I just found that the 325 was a bigger step up from the 80s than the 225 was - they have more bass, and a richer sound - just more of everything. To be fair, I haven't heard the new 225i, though - the ones I had were the old ones. I am finding the 325 more comfortable than I remember the 225 being, too - but the bowls may have been getting old. I sold my 225s after I got the HD600, but missed the Grado guitar sound. I was a little wary of going to the 325, but don't regret it at all.

It seems like we've got pretty much completely opposite opinions about the two grados. I find 225 to sound 'fuller' and 'richer' than 325, which I think sounds rater cold in comparison. I still pick the 325 for metal, electric guitar on it is awesome, but for most other rock I would prefer 225, but mostly I use the GS1000. I also find the 225 to be way more comfortable than the 325.

 

[ScottieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by limpidglitch /img/forum/go_quote.gif It seems like we've got pretty much completely opposite opinions about the two grados. I find 225 to sound 'fuller' and 'richer' than 325, which I think sounds rater cold in comparison. I still pick the 325 for metal, electric guitar on it is awesome, but for most other rock I would prefer 225, but mostly I use the GS1000. I also find the 225 to be way more comfortable than the 325.

Heh, yep sounds that way. Could be the new 'is' version, but I doubt it - probably just preference. Of course best way is to hear for yourself - here's more proof that everyone is different! Could be a function of amp too, and to be fair I have a different amp than I did when I had the 225s, and that was a while ago. Who knows.

 

[FourierMakesFunk]

The 325i(s) will be fine for older rock. Overly simplified (from my testing): there was just more treble and bass going on with the 325 compared to the 22; seems like some people like that, others don't. It's a not a giant difference though, so if possible just do the test yourself.

 

[ajjekko]

Sennheiser is a good all-around brand, but the Grados benefit more from rock. They'll sound more fun.

 

[lescanard]

I once again appreciate all of this feedback. I really went back and forth but after all of the excellent advice and my research I decided that although I thought I wanted to get the 650s my set-up probably wouldn't warrant it for the near term. I enjoy the sr60s and found a local shop. Basically I wanted to demo the 225is and 325is which I did. After everything I read I really believed I would find the 225s would be the right choice. Thing was - I didn't find that at all. I really did not hear the "screeching highs" some said I would find in the 325s. I gotta tell you - I loved them. My shop gave me a demo cd and I sat there for an hour and went back and forth. Rock, Jazz, Classical, Blues - I ran the gamut. These things are ridiculous IMO. Just got 'em home after they cut me a little deal - I am just loving the sound and they really have no time on them yet. Can't wait to hear them when they really open up. ScottieB called it - we're all different. Didn't really hear a huge difference from the 225s and sr60s - not enough in my opinion. So damned happy right now!

 

[ScottieB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lescanard /img/forum/go_quote.gif I once again appreciate all of this feedback. I really went back and forth but after all of the excellent advice and my research I decided that although I thought I wanted to get the 650s my set-up probably wouldn't warrant it for the near term. I enjoy the sr60s and found a local shop. Basically I wanted to demo the 225is and 325is which I did. After everything I read I really believed I would find the 225s would be the right choice. Thing was - I didn't find that at all. I really did not hear the "screeching highs" some said I would find in the 325s. I gotta tell you - I loved them. My shop gave me a demo cd and I sat there for an hour and went back and forth. Rock, Jazz, Classical, Blues - I ran the gamut. These things are ridiculous IMO. Just got 'em home after they cut me a little deal - I am just loving the sound and they really have no time on them yet. Can't wait to hear them when they really open up. ScottieB called it - we're all different. Didn't really hear a huge difference from the 225s and sr60s - not enough in my opinion. So damned happy right now!

Hey cool! Glad you like them.
But from the sound of it, you and I aren't all that different at all

Enjoy!