[pellegrino10]

Thanks, I see a JH5 or 13 in your future. No doubt there are some custom dogs out there, glad I didn't end up with one.

 

[rawrster]

Quote:

That is something that I've also wondered for years.. What makes it so impossible to throw the same exact drivers that the JH13 has into a universal body?

 
Can you fit 6 drivers that the JH13 uses into a shell that won't be larger than the TF10?
 

 

[ovrclkd]

Quote:

I'm still trying to understand why a custom IEM would sound better than a universal one. Besides the fit issues, the technology used in Universals vs customs is pretty similar. And if I get a good fit with a very good universal, I don't really know how a lower technology custom IEM (for example three vs one drivers) could so sound better. I think that there is a lot of auto-suggestion going on in customs: when I pay 500$ for a two driver custom iem, it has to sound better than my 300$ three drivers universal. Of course, that's only assumption, as I've never heard a custom iem, and feel free to explain me why I'm wrong.
 
On the question wheter universals are a waste of money, I'd say certainly not, as (in the beginning) they allow you to check which sound signature you like, and you always have the possibility to sell them for a good price.
Now, after testing a couple of high end universals, I know which kind of sound I like, and I would maybe consider high end customs as an ultimate step up. But I wouldn't have done it in the beginning.
And the other point is that some people (actually, the vast majority here on head fi) like to try new things, and rapidly get bored from an iem. With universals, it's always easy to sell them and buy a new set, just to try it, just for fun.
 
I'd say that custom iems can be compared to marriage, in a way: once you've decided to take the plunge, you're stuck with your choice. Of course, you can divorce (or sell your custom, with quite a big loss) and take a new mistress, but it will cost you a lot of money and effort, whereas when you're just having a love affair with a universal mistress, hum I mean iem, it's quite easy to say bye to her and to replace it with a better, newer model.

I agree .. though having not yet owned customs my UM3X's fit and sound outstanding ... and as was pointed out if I decide to part with them in the future to fund another pair the buyer market is open.

 

[wuwhere]

Well, I'm sure most here started with universals before customs. Also, customs used to have very low resale value until the arrival of remolders like Unique Melody, Fisher and others. Universals are single bore while most customs have two perhaps even three. And these make a difference in how they sound.

 

[EraserXIV]

Quote:

Can you fit 6 drivers that the JH13 uses into a shell that won't be larger than the TF10?
 

 
It really doesn't seem too impossible. Why can't it be the same general shape as a custom but instead of the custom fit nozzle, just a nozzle that can fit a silicone tip? Also, looking at all customs, there seems to be quite a lot of empty space, it doesn't seem unreasonable to squish the components closer together in a smaller enclosure. I guess it would result something that looks like a little bigger Westone or Custom 3.
 
 
I feel that the TF10 is so unweildy due to bad design, not its overall size.

 

[rawrster]

It depends on the driver used but 6 is pushing it. Something like a TWFK is tiny but a CI22955 which is a popular driver used for bass is not tiny at all. From an estimate by look it is 5-6x bigger. There's also cost and marketability to consider. It would cost a ridiculous amount considering 3 driver universals typically cost between 300-400 MSRP and something with more will cost more and probably won't be as marketable. Customs have a large amount of space unless it has a lot of drivers since it fills the concha unlike universals which mostly go in the canal and then part of the concha.

 

[EraserXIV]

6 doesn't seem impossible with a little proper configuration, but good point, it may be pushing the envelope a little. However, a 2 driver like the JH5 does not seem unreasonable at all to any extent.

 

[jyle_t]

By the looks of the extra space, it should be possible to squeeze >10 drivers in 1 custom. Just sayin'..

 

[goodvibes]

There's a lot to be said for known insertion depth, consistent tube length and not dealing with tip sound or varying opening from canal compression. It's also a more rigid, less resonant and better anchored platform to fire from. There should be advantages to customs. The trade off is in the performance of the units themselves isn't guaranteed and whether the added cost for the same internal quality is well integrated. Don't undervalue the ability of a gifted designer. I believe it has greater value than the bits. I'm aklways surprised by all the added driver type modding of conversions. Seems counter intuitive.

 

[Eric_C]

Question for the customs owners: have you ever demo'd a "universal fit version" of your custom IEMs before owning a pair? I ask this because I had the chance to demo a few UE and JH customs, specially moulded to fit universal tips, and was unimpressed. I couldn't see any real flaws in the sound, but I wasn't blown away, and went with the Senn IE8 instead.
Given the arguments for housing resonance, insertion depth, et al, I wonder if your experience has borne this out to be true.

 

[bungsai]

I own the IE8 and the UM Miracle.
 
Having listened to both the UM Miracle Custom and the UM Miracle demo, I have to say I was unimpressed by the universal demo too.  Whilst I don't appreciate all the technical terms associated with the differences between the two, there is certainly a difference that goes far beyond isolation and fit which result in the custom sounding MUCH better than the universal demo.
 
It could be to do with isolation, or the fact that each custom monitor is individually tuned for a certain FR curve, or bone conduction, or any matter of other differences between universals and customs.  At the end of the day, the demo's did not have the warmth, the depth and detail in the lower frequencies, nor the transparency and airiness of the full custom monitor.  It actually makes it quite difficult to fully appreciate the differences between a 2 driver and a 6 driver custom when just listening to the universal demos.
 
As a disclaimer I also need to add that this experience is limited to the UM Miracle custom vs the UM Miracle demo.  The same may not be applicable for other manufacturers, this was merely my own experience.
 

 

[rawrster]

Quote:

6 doesn't seem impossible with a little proper configuration, but good point, it may be pushing the envelope a little. However, a 2 driver like the JH5 does not seem unreasonable at all to any extent.

Well if there was a universal from JHA that sounded the same as the JH5 and they cost similar then why would people get the JH5. It's not that smart to have your competition within your own company. Also there are many things to consider such as what goodvibes last post was. It just won't really happen. The closest is UM3X and ES3X which uses the same internals but differ by dual bore design on the customs but those who have both do not feel that the UM3X is at the same level.

 

[daveDerek]

some folks have jumped right into customs for starters. while they could end up very happy campers, there's also a group of people that absolutely cannot stand sticking things deep into their ear canals. it's better to know that ahead of time. play with different universals first and if hooked, try and get a demo with universal versions of customs. if you get a chance to attend major meets, by all means do so.

 

[EraserXIV]

Quote:

Well if there was a universal from JHA that sounded the same as the JH5 and they cost similar then why would people get the JH5. It's not that smart to have your competition within your own company. Also there are many things to consider such as what goodvibes last post was. It just won't really happen. The closest is UM3X and ES3X which uses the same internals but differ by dual bore design on the customs but those who have both do not feel that the UM3X is at the same level.

Well I meant for another company to do this since from what I've heard, many companies use OEM drivers (knowles). I am aware the JHA claims their drivers are proprietary so maybe the JH5 was a bad example, but there are customs companies out there that use readily available OEM drivers.
 
I didn't know that about the um3x and es3x so I do understand that there is probably more to it than meets the eye. I know it's unlikely but hey one can wish..

 

[SoupRKnowva]

I agree completely with the OP. Ive found that all top end universals cant handle very complicated metal. Ive tried the TF10's, SE535's and the monster coppers. And they all do fine with normal music, such as lady gaga sounds fine. but as soon as i turn on something like the black dahlia murder, they all fall apart, the coppers less so than the others. and ive come to the conclusion that its caused by the sound bores, the size and quantity of the tubes coming off the drivers. in customs you get larger tubes and more of them, which can deal with the complex sounds which the unviersals cant.
 
Also, i dont think that alot of people understand just how custom custom monitors really are. They arent just a collection of drivers shoved into a mould of your ear. They are each tuned, to you ear. The length of the sound tubes in particular, and the crossovers, are each tuned for you to achieve the greatest phase response possible with passive components. This is the reason why i would also never buy a used set of customs.
 
there is also the comfort, once you go custom, you cant really go back. they fit exactly the same every single time you put them in your ears, no fiddling required.
 
this is why ill never buy anything but customs ever again