[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nice Kwkarth! You are on the modding way haha! I hope you get to like them and I look forward to your impressions when compared to the 650 you modded. Maybe I read over it but are you first going to burn them in completely and see what they are capable of without the mod or start modding when you get them? Anyways, NICE!!!

Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I do intend to burn the 2500s in for at least a few hundred hours before I modify them, if at all. I was quite confident that the 650s would not have improved much beyond the point where they were with regard to burn in before I modified them. There is such a profound difference now with these 650s. they are so pleasant to listen to. Uncolored, super clean and articulate. the bass is low and punchy without any trace of boom or mud. You should hear bass violin on these things! It sounds just like the real thing. As a matter of fact all stringed instruments are superb, as is voice and piano, and reed instruments, brass, etc..... The whole schmear!

I'm very curious to hear the 2500s when they arrive. I can't imagine they could sound any better than this, but we'll see.

 

[discordia.23]

Hi kwkarth,

Thanks for posting your modding endeavours for us! I found it particularly interesting since I'm planning on purchasing the ATH A900 as my first headphone.

Do you think a similar mod could be implemented on said cans? I remember reading about the "blu tak" mod awhile ago, which I think would have a similar effect as your far more sophisticated one.

 

[Thurston Moore]

So, my first steps into the world of modding has been taken! I started out with adding some blutak where kwkarth placed Dynamat and put in a sandwich of one thin piece of not very dense wool fabric together with a piece of thicker, but still not very dense, polyester fabric. I didn´t bother putting in a piece of fabric on top of the baffle board.

So, how did it turn out? Well, at first I was very disapointed and didn´t understand at all what kwkarth was talking about. To my ears, the bass pretty much disapeared and the tonal balance was way too bright...until I noticed I hadn´t reattatched the pads correctly (oops!!!). Once the pads were in place as they should things started to happen. Before the mods the Prolines 650s sounded ok, but had some midbass coloration and I could definately understand what kwkarth meant by "honky coloration" of upper mids. With the mods the bass become more neutral and tighter, without losing punch...the midrange became cleaner and clearer...and it seems like the treble was allowed to stretch out a bit further. All in all...very simple to do...very cheap...and with great result! Thanks kwkarth, for this tip!!!

I will later on try to find some Dynamat-like material instead of the blutak and I will experiment further on with the fabric sandwhich to see what turns out to be the best.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by discordia.23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi kwkarth, Thanks for posting your modding endeavours for us! I found it particularly interesting since I'm planning on purchasing the ATH A900 as my first headphone. Do you think a similar mod could be implemented on said cans? I remember reading about the "blu tak" mod awhile ago, which I think would have a similar effect as your far more sophisticated one.

I've only listened to the A900's once, and as I recall, they didn't sound too bad, at least not near as in need of improvement as the stock PL650's. Also, I've never seen the inside of the A900's so I have no idea if they would benefit from any simple modifications or not. When you get them, let them burn in well before you do anything else, then if you want, take some pictures of their insides and post them along with a review of their sound to you with the music that you listen to. Based on that information, I will be happy to give you my recommendations.
Best!
-kwkarth

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thurston Moore /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, my first steps into the world of modding has been taken! I started out with adding some blutak where kwkarth placed Dynamat and put in a sandwich of one thin piece of not very dense wool fabric together with a piece of thicker, but still not very dense, polyester fabric. I didn´t bother putting in a piece of fabric on top of the baffle board. So, how did it turn out? Well, at first I was very disapointed and didn´t understand at all what kwkarth was talking about. To my ears, the bass pretty much disapeared and the tonal balance was way too bright...until I noticed I hadn´t reattatched the pads correctly (oops!!!). Once the pads were in place as they should things started to happen. Before the mods the Prolines 650s sounded ok, but had some midbass coloration and I could definately understand what kwkarth meant by "honky coloration" of upper mids. With the mods the bass become more neutral and tighter, without losing punch...the midrange became cleaner and clearer...and it seems like the treble was allowed to stretch out a bit further. All in all...very simple to do...very cheap...and with great result! Thanks kwkarth, for this tip!!! I will later on try to find some Dynamat-like material instead of the blutak and I will experiment further on with the fabric sandwhich to see what turns out to be the best.

Congratulations on your mods! Please keep us informed as your PL650's evolve!
Cheers!

 

[kwkarth]

I've been listening to a lot of Nickel Creek lately. The vocal trio is well mixed and recorded. Ther recordings sound very natural in terms of spectral balance.

Instrumentation consists of acoustic guitars, mandolins, violin, bass violin. Starting with top notch recordings like these, adding to that, the superb musicianship of the performers... listening to this group with the modded PL650's is a real revelation.

The harmonies are glorious! The overall sound is very full, complete, seamless...so detailed and yet so warm and musical. I can't seem to get enough! The plucked texture of all the strings, the subtle intonation of the voices, the very subtle and delicate percussion.... The intonation and voicing of each of the instruments...oh man!

Great stuff!

My favorite songs are; Out of the Woods, Reason Why, When you come back down, Smoothie Song, This Side, Scotch & Chocolate (live session), Somebody More Like You, Jealous of the Moon, Tomorrow is a Long Time, Doubting Thomas, Why Should the Fire Die?, You Don't have to Move that Mountain, The Fox.

 

[Contrastique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I do intend to burn the 2500s in for at least a few hundred hours before I modify them, if at all. I was quite confident that the 650s would not have improved much beyond the point where they were with regard to burn in before I modified them. There is such a profound difference now with these 650s. they are so pleasant to listen to. Uncolored, super clean and articulate. the bass is low and punchy without any trace of boom or mud. You should hear bass violin on these things! It sounds just like the real thing. As a matter of fact all stringed instruments are superb, as is voice and piano, and reed instruments, brass, etc..... The whole schmear!

You are very welcome!
You make it sound so good I would just love to hear them! Also looking forward as to how you wil find your 2500's stack up against the 650.
Too bad I haven't listened to the 650 yet, so I don't know how they sound at all. Anyways, have fun with your upcoming toy!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm very curious to hear the 2500s when they arrive. I can't imagine they could sound any better than this, but we'll see.

Same thing I said about the ed9 haha! When I listen to the 750 now I still feel like it's impossible that the ed9 is better coz they are so enjoyable but I know they are...strange haha!

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif .... Same thing I said about the ed9 haha! When I listen to the 750 now I still feel like it's impossible that the ed9 is better coz they are so enjoyable but I know they are...strange haha!

what I meant to say was I didn't think the 650's themselves could be improved any further for what they were. Certainly, there are better headphones in the world, I've even got some right here. But for what they are and what they do, they're certainly keepers and will be my live monitoring cans of choice from now on.

Incidentally, I've noticed that these cans seem to be more sensitive to different amplifiers than many of the other cans I own. I'm beginning to suspect that they sound best when used with SS amps when 120 ohm series resistors are used to lessen the damping factor, or with tube amps. When I listened to them in the guitar center where I bought them, I was listening to the headphone monitor on a Tascam CD recorder/player. they sounded pretty good as I recall. With material I'm more familiar with and driven from my SR-71, and Corda Aria, they (now modded) sound really good, but thinner. When I drive them with my Dared MP5, they sound much more full and expansive. Hmmm...

 

[Thurston Moore]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thurston Moore /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, my first steps into the world of modding has been taken! I started out with adding some blutak where kwkarth placed Dynamat and put in a sandwich of one thin piece of not very dense wool fabric together with a piece of thicker, but still not very dense, polyester fabric. I didn´t bother putting in a piece of fabric on top of the baffle board.

I´ve now switched the polyester fabric, which was about 3 mm thick, to some 8 mm thick foam. The result is a little bit more extension at the frequency extremes, with a little bit more detail.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thurston Moore /img/forum/go_quote.gif I´ve now switched the polyester fabric, which was about 3 mm thick, to some 8 mm thick foam. The result is a little bit more extension at the frequency extremes, with a little bit more detail.

Excellent!

 

[RasmusseN]

ROFL at the Dynamat

 

[Contrastique]

Hey Kwkarth,
How do the 650's compare to the 701's? And how are you driving your 701's?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RasmusseN /img/forum/go_quote.gif ROFL at the Dynamat

Explain yourself.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Contrastique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey Kwkarth, How do the 650's compare to the 701's? And how are you driving your 701's?

Soundstage
The soundstaging is different between the two cans. Both are expansive and not closed in, but yet different perspectives. The PL650 is a little more up front and impactful, the 701, more off stage, a few rows back. Soundstage is a little wider in the 701.

Bottom End
The bass in 650 sounds to my ear like it goes deeper, but is more controlled (tighter) in the 100Hz-300Hz region, yet is more impactful, visceral. The 701 has more bloom in the 100Hz-300Hz region, but does not extend quite as low, nor is it quite as impactful. I enjoy the character of both cans. The 650, more analytical, the 701 slightly more musical.

Midrange
The midrange is delightful, but different in both cans. They both excel with all stringed instruments, male and female voices, woodwinds, piano, etc. The bloom of the 701 bass just touches into the lower midrange, but is not intrusive, which lends a slight warmth compared to the 650. Percussive instruments such as tablas are delightful on either can, but sound a little fuller on the 701. Overall, the 701 is a bit more musical in the mids, tending to more liquid, whereas the 650 leans more to the dry side.

Top End
The top end is nicely extended on both cans. There's currently a (ever so slightly) wee bit more top end sparkle with the 701, given the way I currently have the 650 voiced. I can easily change this and probably will open the 650 up just a little bit more.

Amplifiers
Oh yes, driving miss proline....
I'm currently listening through the Dared MP5. I've used a RSA SR-71 and Meier Corda Aria with them, and both SS amps sounded good, but a little drier with the 650s. The Dared is a hybrid amp, using a tube front end and a mosfet output. It's output is designed to drive speakers, and as such uses current limiting resistors in series with the output for the headphone socket. The Proline's seem to like this higher impedance output. I have yet to use them with the MAX, but eventually will.

Erratta
Both cans need a good amp to show their best. I think the 701 likes a higher damping factor, where the 650 seems to open up a bit more with a lower damping factor.

Both cans are a delight to listen to, and I would be hard pressed to want to part with either one. Although I don't listen to much electronica or rock, I would say the 650s do a better job with those genres.

With a lot of music, I can go back and forth between the two, preferring one thing and then another with each. I'm currently listening to David Grissman Quintet, Mr. Koolberg, and there is a flute and mandolin playing off against one another and it's delightful with either can. Both are very sweet and detailed. You can hear the breathing, tonguing and finger action of the flute along with the texture of the plucking of the strings and the fingers on the frets of the mandolin. Very nice!

I prefer large pipe organs with the 650. Since they go lower than the 701, the 32' pipes vibrating the air, just reach out, grab you by the ears, and shake your whole body.

Conclusions
There you have it. Still a work in progress. To my ears, the Proline 650, in a stock, unmodified form, absolutely sucked at virtually everything and were unlistenable compared to the K701. In the Proline's modified form, they're an absolute delight. They're a useful tool for a working professional, and a wonderful and exciting companion for casual listening.

 

[Contrastique]

Thanx Kwkarth for those impressions. I still want to hear the 701's again to see if I can make them work for me since I was a tad dissapointed when hearing them for the first time.
I have 1 question though, what do you mean by dampening factor?