[kwkarth]

BTW, I forgot to mention imaging and headstage/soundstage before.

The stock 650's sound bothered me so much that I was distracted from noticing how well they do with regard to imaging and headstage. Now that I can really concentrate on listening to the music, I've been really impressed with what the Ultrasones can do in this department. Very nice!

 

[kwkarth]

I just switched from the SR-71 to the Aria and the sound of the 650s is fuller and more refined yet. I was listening to Norah Jones' album, "Not Too Late" and had been noticing how much the venue changes from one cut to the next.

The whole album is surprisingly amateurish in how it was done. I'm really surprised that somebody with the awesome talent of Norah Jones would let something like that pass. With the modded 650s I can hear EVERY flaw in the production. I'm beginning to really like these cans!

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just switched from the SR-71 to the Aria and the sound of the 650s is fuller and more refined yet. I was listening to Norah Jones' album, "Not Too Late" and had been noticing how much the venue changes from one cut to the next. The whole album is surprisingly amateurish in how it was done. I'm really surprised that somebody with the awesome talent of Norah Jones would let something like that pass. With the modded 650s I can hear EVERY flaw in the production. I'm beginning to really like these cans!

Upon further reflection, some of the venue changes in Not Too Late may have been purposeful. For example: In "Little Room" the venue on the album is clearly set up to sound like it was recorded in a little room. The venue sound like it could have been artificially created with DSP. I have a second recording of that cut done with completely different processing, i.e. she's singing right on mic and there's a little echo mixed in, but clearly a studio environment without the "little room" effect. Ok, so I'm slow to catch on.

I haven't slowed down to listen to music this much in almost a year!

Yup, I like these cans!

 

[kwkarth]

Is there anybody living in the PDX area who owns a pair of Ultrasones and is interested in comparing notes on how these cans sound?

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Upon further reflection, some of the venue changes in Not Too Late may have been purposeful. For example: In "Little Room" the venue on the album is clearly set up to sound like it was recorded in a little room. The venue sound like it could have been artificially created with DSP. I have a second recording of that cut done with completely different processing, i.e. she's singing right on mic and there's a little echo mixed in, but clearly a studio environment without the "little room" effect. Ok, so I'm slow to catch on. I haven't slowed down to listen to music this much in almost a year! Yup, I like these cans!

Haha, ya that does not sound like a fluke at all there. The mixing ideas are simple and yet spectacular, they are just emotionally playing with the space the sound is in.

But ya, if you like how the 650 sounds, think about what is on my head

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Haha, ya that does not sound like a fluke at all there. The mixing ideas are simple and yet spectacular, they are just emotionally playing with the space the sound is in. But ya, if you like how the 650 sounds, think about what is on my head

Well, that's the thing. I did not like the way the 650s sounded. They were horrible and not worth even half of what I paid for them. Now after the mods, they sound very nice, but they're not 650s any more either.

 

[1Time]

At ~$7.50 shipped this Lightweight Vinyl Sound Dampening Sheet 10" x 13" is less expensive than the Dynamat like products, lighter, odorless, and for headphone use likely works as well. One sheet would be enough for up to 3 layers.

 

[kwkarth]

They continued to sound very nice, with a leaner presentation than the AKG-K701s. In an attempt to warm them up a bit, yet retain the incredible clarity, I removed a single layer of my acoustic sandwich, trying different layers. Removing any single layer resulted in adding a bit of glare to the upper mids, so I put all three layers of material back in and cut a small dime sized hole in the wool and poly felts to make room for the magnet on the back of the driver. this reduces pressure on the driver basket. Then to the front of the mu-metal baffle I added a quarter sized piece of Dynamat, centered between the driver holes and the reflex holes.

Now, I do believe they have warmed up a bit and yet retain all of their clarity.

Nice cans!

 

[kwkarth]

Before I first started to modify them, I tried to equalize them to the point where they were listenable. I could not find any settings to make them listenable. After the initial mods, they were listenable but on the lean side in their presentation. I set an EQ curve that made them sound very similar to the K701s. Over the course of several days, I continued to tweak this EQ curve until I was happy with it. Adding EQ, even when done in the digital domain, at least in my system, still occasionally produces some minor transient audible distortions. When I completed the mods to the mods today, the original EQ curve I had settled upon for the PL650s now made them sound too warm. I'm at the point now where they are completely listenable with no EQ whatsoever, and close to ideal with +1.5db @ 125Hz, +3db @ 64Hz, and +3db @ 32Hz.
I may even reduce that some more after listening to them for a while.

 

[Thurston Moore]

kwkarth/
I´m in the search for a set of closed cans and found this thread while trying to gather some info on different cans iwas interested in. Must say that your mods looks very interesting...though I´m not sure I feel confident enough to carry them out myself. Now when you are at a point where you seem to really like the Proline 650s I´m kind of curious how you would compare them to your DT 250s that you spoke about in the beginning of this thread. Are they better in overall sound quality? Are their sound signatures any alike?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thurston Moore /img/forum/go_quote.gif kwkarth/ I´m in the search for a set of closed cans and found this thread while trying to gather some info on different cans iwas interested in. Must say that your mods looks very interesting...though I´m not sure I feel confident enough to carry them out myself. Now when you are at a point where you seem to really like the Proline 650s I´m kind of curious how you would compare them to your DT 250s that you spoke about in the beginning of this thread. Are they better in overall sound quality? Are their sound signatures any alike?

Good question. they're both good cans and it depends upon what you're looking for because they are certainly different from one another.

The DT-250s I would describe as having a mildly warm presentation. The spectrum is fairly well balanced. The highs are mildly recessed. For long term casual listening, these are really nice, comfortable cans. Built like a tank.

The modified PL650s provide a leaner, higher resolution presentation. It's easier to identify each performer and instrument in the mix with these cans.
They isolate external noises much better than the DT-250s. Before the mods, the isolation was virtually useless, now they're not as good as the ETY ER4s but MUCH better than the Beyer DT-250s with regard to the isolation they provide.

Now that their internal resonances are completely controlled, I believe I'm hearing the FR of the driver alone without any additional colorations. The FR that's left can be adjusted to sound like the DT250s if that's what is desired, but I can't make the 250s sound like the PL650s. The speed of the 250s driver just isn't there to begin with. The Beyer cans now sound dated to my ear.

Most conventional cans, open or closed, have a mid-bass bump of varying degrees added to them to make them sound fuller. The 650's do not have that bump. In that regard, they remind me of my K1000s. The PL650s really shine with acoustic and biphonic material that I have, including the demo disc they came with.

When I first got them, they were unlistenable under any circumstances. Then after burn-in, they improved a little, but really were pretty much useless for anything. After the modifications, these are real keepers!

For overall complete neutrality I would have to rate the K701s at the top. The DT250s on the warm side and a little slow. The PL650s a little on the lean side (mid-bass only), fast, and resolving. Because of their complete control of any resonant or standing wave problems, they can be EQ'd to sound any way you want them to sound. The bass goes very deep. They're a joy to listen to on a good pipe organ. You hear/feel the rumble of the 32' pipes and all the brilliance of the high end, and everything in between.

Kick drums have good impact and immediacy. Pacing is very good.

I will keep my DT250s around because they're an old friend, but I think they've been un-seated for monitoring cans by the PL650s.

For listening at home when isolation is not an issue, the K701s are still better at everything.

I hope this helps.

 

[1Time]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif For listening at home when isolation is not an issue, the K701s are still better at everything.

Haven't heard the K701. My guess your modded PL650 holds its own quite well with bass heavy electronica. I know my PL650 sounded pretty incredible after using this bass boosting mod: put rubberbands around the ear pads to slightly constrict their circumferences.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif They continued to sound very nice, with a leaner presentation than the AKG-K701s. In an attempt to warm them up a bit, yet retain the incredible clarity, I removed a single layer of my acoustic sandwich, trying different layers. Removing any single layer resulted in adding a bit of glare to the upper mids, so I put all three layers of material back in bit cut a small dime sized hole in the wool and poly felts to make room for the magnet on the back of the driver. this releaves all pressure on the driver basket. Then to the front of the mumetal baffle I added a quarter sized piece of Dynamat, centered between the driver holes and the reflex holes. Now, I do believe they have warmed up a bit and yet retain all of their clarity. Nice cans!

One final mod and they now require no additional EQ at all. They sound their best when everything is set to flat.

I cut another 7cm circle of the fabric backed foam and placed it under the earpad mesh, so it covers all of the baffleboard.

 

[vvs_75]

Just acquired Proline 2500!

I am planning to try all your PL 650 mods but first I want to wait until they go through looong drivers/brain burn in and settle down completelly.Then I could see actually how much the mods improve the sound.
But it will take awhile and I hate waiting!

 

[kwkarth]

Congratulations on your 2500s! Keep in mind that they're completely different headphones than the 650s and the mods I did to the 650 may destroy the sound of the 2500s. I am extremely happy with the sound of my 650s now, but the 2500s are a completely different animal. The 2500s have different drivers, they are open rather than closed cans, they have velour ear pads rather than pleather, etc.