Ultrasone Edition 12 announced in Japan

[MohawkUS]

I'm gonna have to disagree. Not all stax are top tier and in fact most stax setups I'd consider mid-fi. Granted the 009 is perhaps the greatest can ever made in mass production.

The SR-5s are amazing for the price they go for these days, but I'm going to have to agree with you that they aren't top tier. As I've said the Beyerdynamic T90 was more detailed.(the SR5 and HE6 came out in a tie but I think my amplifier was bottle-necking both of them) Where the STAX really shines is with timbre, sparkle, and soundstage. Listening to the HD700 though let me know that the STAX are too lightweight in sound(somewhat basslight but less so than the HE6) Basically the STAX do some things quite well, better than most sub $1000 headphones but also do some things poorer than even $200 headphones. You have to really like what they're giving to you. I don't hold the belief that Orthos nor Electrostatics are superior technology to dynamics despite what seems to be the growing consensus. They are far more polarizing and dare I say niche technologies. I think I'm going to be one of the few who returns from electrostatics to dynamic. The T90 and HD700 got me close to what I was looking for so I have high hopes for the ED12(and if not this maybe I'll move on to the T1 or a AT woodie).

When you say that the Ultrasone are different, what do you mean exactly? I'm looking for something 'different' but I do still value a neutral sound. I found the HD700 too 'fun' but I wasn't too turned off by the Beyer's warmth(rather by the too forward soundstaging). What I do notice is that Ultrasone seems to be targeting these at Stax users as they've been using words like 'Airy' and 'Ethereal' in product descriptions.

 

[shigzeo]

Top tier or not, they have a very specific sound and a very specific use and entail very specific equipment. The edition 12 is a regular dynamic headphone. It is easy breezy to drive from any output, super light, low Ω, has a rather high input tolerance, etc., and so on. 

In terms of SQ, The SR-5 aren't necessarily my cup of tea, and to be honest, neither are the SR009. But I'm not as much of a headphone guy as most are on this forum. My post wasn't to put STAX on a pedestal, but to highlight how different they are. 
 
They very much do exist in a different world. Like it or hate it, you can't miss that.

 

[Rawdawg3234]

All valid points but I'll still disagree. There are plenty of other electrostatic cans out there if that's the niche you're talking about stax "being in".
If you're going to say that their sound signature is what separates than sennheiser is in a world of their own as well with their soundstage. Same with the "live" effect you get from the s-logic of the ultrasone line-up.

I actually can't think of a general point where stax stands apart. All electrostatics require "specialty" equipment. But then again all higher end headphones require specialty equipment. Is having a high impedance what you believe sets them apart? I'm rather confused about your analysis.

 

[shigzeo]

For good or for bad, they are the only maker to stodgily stick to electrostatic guns. I'm not that keen on putting a fence around their sound as I'm not qualified. The only STAX I own is the SRS-002. I'm not a big fan of the company mainly because of fit issues. 
 
But they are a different headphone maker and they have their fans and have their detractors. The experience of owning a STAX is much different to owning an Ultrasone. It isn't plug and play. That is what I tried to say. I must have not done well at all. 

 

[wink]

I don't get Ultrasone's S-Logic.
 
 
I have listened to 3 different models of Ultrasone and they all sound over-bright and tizzy.
 
And, yes, one was the ED10... That's why I don't own one.

 

[shigzeo]

I'm not a big fan of the 10. I love the 8, the DJ1Pro (a bit low fi, but good) and with a good amount of time, the IQ. The 12 is overall an easier can to learn to love than is the 10. 

 

[MohawkUS]

I don't get why the bright sound is always attributed to the S-logic. In the past it seemed people blamed the sound on the titanium drivers used in their brightest headphones which makes more sense to me(not that I'm an expert or anything.) Generally in my experience headphones with angled drivers come off warmer, softer, and less direct. I know this isn't the same way the S-logic works but has there actually been any link that proves the brightness is because of the S-logic technology? It could be the drivers, or just their house sound for all we know. It's hard to compare as Ultra is the only one using said tech, while my example with the angled drivers/pads I have tested headphones from numerous brands.

As for STAX/Orthos being niche products I'd say that they are due to the shortcomings of each technology. Stats are naturally a bit ethereal sounding(maybe not the totl models but then price is the limiting factor) and Orthos generally have a small, confined soundstage(maybe not the Abyss but again price..) Dynamics just seem more well rounded, you've got more choices of amplifier, and they generally are more suited to the average music listener's taste. By niche I just mean they won't appeal to the majority of the market and the irony that we are talking about this on an Ultrasone thread is not lost on me. As it does seem the majority of people prefer the warmer and smoother sound of other brands.

Anyway, I've ordered the headphones and will be posting my impressions in a similar way that I did the HD700. I'll be trying it out with all three of my sources: digital, tape, and vinyl. And I'll try out a wide variety of recordings(modern metal bad mastering, good mastering, electronica, classical, etc.)

 

[shigzeo]

Mohawk, I think we can each agree about one thing: we are looking forward to your views.

 

[Currawong]

The first time I tried a pair of S-Logic ED9s, they sounded like everything was in a circle inside my head. I strongly suspect that S-Logic works incredibly well for some people and those people are the ones whom tend to love the result. The last pair I tried, Signature DJs, sounded about right for a lot of music that needs the bass kick that a lot of my headphones don't quite have, even the LCD-3s. Now if only the ED8s I owned at one stage didn't sound so completely off (probably due to reported variance in different pairs).
 
The CEO of Ultrasone told me in Tokyo last year that their headphones tend to designed for certain kinds of music (rather than attempting to be all-rounders). I think we expect TOTL headphones to be excellent all-rounders when they often are not.

 

[Sorrodje]

  I think we expect TOTL headphones to be excellent all-rounders when they often are not.

 
 
The more I discover Hi-end Cans the more I agree to this point of view.  My best open all-rounder until now still stays my Sennheiser HD580. 
 
Nevertheless in Ultrasone family, The Signature pro is quite near to the All-rounder  definition. Some Music sounds only average through SP but nothing sounds bad. Somenone could say nothing sounds amazingly too I presum

 but I personally find SP is very good for Jazz & Classic ( especially for chamber music and small jazz ensemble ) & Electronica ( Bass is IMO enough even for Electronica ) .  I recently borrowed an ed8 and SP sounds more balanced and closer ton neutrality although ed8 is more precise and controlled. 

 

[shigzeo]

I'm quite embarrassed to ask, but what does TOLL mean?

 

[wink]

TOTL = Top Of The Line.

 

[shigzeo]

NO, but what does TOLL mean

Thank you.

 

[wink]

A 'Toll' is a tall, spindly creature that is incredibly Camera-shy.
However, it is also incredibly gullible and can easily be fooled into appearing on film.

It has been observed having difficulty drinking water without half-drowing itself.
Aww, look! That Toll choked on some water it was drinking and now it has the hiccups!
Quick! Get the Camera!

 

[DefQon]

   
 
The more I discover Hi-end Cans the more I agree to this point of view.  My best open all-rounder until now still stays my Sennheiser HD580. 

A lot of headphones that are classed as flagships, TOTL should not and this is a reflection on it's sound quality and pricing only, aesthetics, quality and reliability is another thing. 
 
Once you start to observe and try out a lot of things you start seeing that hype trains, brand bandwagons have a lot to play in this whole head gear game, just thank yourself one day if you get out of the game not ending up a lunatic or something.