Ultrasone Edition 10 or Audez'e LCD3
Jan 2, 2012 at 10:59 AM Post #61 of 95
I decided to take the plunge on the Edition 10 a few months back, in spite of a negative predisposition after reading through Head-Fi threads on the subject. Thus my absolute surprise that some objectionable opinions felt off the mark by a wide margin. Instead, the Ed 10 offered a startlingly crystalline and electrostatic-like presentation, but with the punch of dynamics phones. It also kept the precision of the closed-back models in the Ultrasone Edition line, but with the wider and deeper soundstage of open-back designs. And we're really talking about wide-open spaces here, an almost surround-like presentation in a very un-headphone manner. As an aside, the Ed 10 is also one of the most comfortable and lightest - for its size - of all the headphones I've tried.

These positive impressions got me wondering whether the basic issue might be that because of the Ed 10's stratospheric and admittedly excessive list price, Ultrasone voiced it specifically for certain listeners of high-resolution recordings. This assumption could also explain critical views expressed by some who favor electronic music, which is by nature highly processed, equalized, compressed, and as such, less suited as a source of evaluation in this case. In contrast, many headphones have been tailored to compensate for heavy equalization and compression. So, someone who listens to electronic music with emphasized mid to high frequencies might prefer a Denon AH-D7000 instead. OTOH, the Denon's bass tends to sound boomy and undefined with orchestral material containing a lot of distantly miked percussion and double-bass.

Regardless, the Ed 10 and classical SACDs work well together, and compromises by Ultrasone over its measurements were likely made with this kind of music in mind. For instance, two of my favorite SACDs are an Exton recording of Stravinsky's Petrushka and Pulcinella with the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic conducted by Jaap van Zweden, and a Linn recording of Bach's Easter and Ascension Oratorios with the Retrospect Ensemble. Suffice to say that the texture of the orchestral landscape as reproduced by the Ed 10 is viscerally realistic - I can literally sense the texture of the strings across the vast soundstage. And the deep percussion on Petrushka sounds gloriously thunderous but perfectly controlled, as does the sparkling presentation of the overtones and transients of the piano.

With all this in mind, one reason why people feel so strongly about the Ed 10 may be that it exposes flaws on favorite recordings. Personally, I would not audition it with either low-resolution (44.1 kHz/16 Bit PCM) material or with multi-generation transfers of analog tapes. Instead, the Ed 10 is more likely to shine with state-of-the-art (DSD and High-Rez 24 Bit PCM) acoustic recordings. Then there are those who dislike it out of resentment with the cost, although I actually purchased it for substantially less than the advertised price, possibly because of the negative publicity on Head-Fi. So, as a happy Ed 10 owner, my sincere gratitude for saving me a bundle. Now, I'd appreciate if folks could just do the same for the SR-009/Blue Hawaii combo, and knock a few grands off the price as well...
 
  After much poring the subject, this is my first post here.
I'm on the market to complement/replace/enlarge my Grado RS1.
I mainly listen to :
- 1955/1965 jazz
- contemporary music (Ligeti to Morton Feldman), very demanding tones
- vocal music (from Monteverdi to Sinatra)
 
Which would be best : Ultrasone Edition 10 (with modified cabling done by a pro
neaby my hometown, with Synergy HD800 and Jena Labs HD 800
 
or
 
Audez'e LCD 3
 
Thank you for your kind advice
 
Johan Frederik

 
Jan 2, 2012 at 1:36 PM Post #62 of 95
Don't you think that only sounding good with more than perfect HD records means there's something wrong ? I believe that its the S logic of the headphone giving such a bright sound that makes it artificially throw at your face the details making you perceiving as the texture you talk about which is only tolerable with more than perfect records.
 
Jan 2, 2012 at 4:37 PM Post #63 of 95

 
Quote:
These positive impressions got me wondering whether the basic issue might be that because of the Ed 10's stratospheric and admittedly excessive list price, Ultrasone voiced it specifically for certain listeners of high-resolution recordings.



Boy, am I ever glad that I'm not part of that demographic, "startlingly crystalline" highs and all. Then again, I only listen to measly CDs on my 009s.
 
Jan 2, 2012 at 5:53 PM Post #64 of 95
I think people not liking what the Ed10 sounds like might have something to do with their grotesque amount of distortion as well as excessive treble.
 
Jan 3, 2012 at 6:54 AM Post #65 of 95
Haha that was funny :) Yeah the K1000, SR-007, 009, R10, HE-90 etc are all just not accurate in the treble, thank god the ED10 got it right :p!
 
Jan 3, 2012 at 7:22 AM Post #66 of 95
Excellent preferences, I also listen to a lot of contemporary stuff from Nancarrow, Ornstein to Penderecki and Xenakis to Zappa. Always found that the T1s gave accurate representation of the tones and was never to harsh even in the very demanding music of Partch and Webern. Also, I found a small orthodynamic headphone called the TDS ECHO 16 KIEV to be excellent while handling tones.  
 
Jan 3, 2012 at 8:53 AM Post #67 of 95


Quote:
 


Treble prominence might be because German people have ears differently shaped, and that treble prominence is just there way of hearing neutrality and judging good a headphone. There is the sound of the US, of Japan, there is a Canadian sound similar to that of the US... I would be curious to see an audiogram of John Grado hearing for a better understanding on why he make treble orientated headphones... maybe it's a family thing I still have to listen to Joseph Grado's :p.



Hi,
 
Nonsense! The Germans have the same ears as everybody else. Except maybe in Lothlorien with the Elves.
The problem is the same all over the world: 1,000 people - 1,000 impressions. We must always learn to deal with it.
 
Sorry for my bad English.
 
 
Jan 3, 2012 at 7:37 PM Post #68 of 95
Your English is great :wink:
 
I would like to be able to say that I was joking about that "to each country an ear morphology and a sound for it" idea, but "joking" the word that I'm searching for...
 
...
 
I will find it one day.
 
Jan 6, 2012 at 8:21 AM Post #69 of 95
Very funny!
I agree: german ears are most likely the same as everyones. But the sound preferences of audio systems can indeed be different in different countries. That is not because of physical differences of the listeners, but because people live in different kind of houses. German houses are (98%) brick houses, british houses are brick too, but our british friends tend to have smaller living rooms than the germans. American houses are more constructed of wood (don't ask the percentage, but its is high. Just walk around in California).
 
Then we use different kinds of grounds, furniture etc. pp.
 
These differences in preferred room size and wall material leads to different room acoustics and thus to the development of different sound preferences.
The good thing is: forget about all this as long as you listen to headphones.
 
Quote:
Hi,
 
Nonsense! The Germans have the same ears as everybody else. Except maybe in Lothlorien with the Elves.
The problem is the same all over the world: 1,000 people - 1,000 impressions. We must always learn to deal with it.
 
Sorry for my bad English.
 



 
 
Jan 6, 2012 at 11:39 AM Post #70 of 95
Very funny!
I agree: german ears are most likely the same as everyones. But the sound preferences of audio systems can indeed be different in different countries. That is not because of physical differences of the listeners, but because people live in different kind of houses. German houses are (98%) brick houses, british houses are brick too, but our british friends tend to have smaller living rooms than the germans. American houses are more constructed of wood (don't ask the percentage, but its is high. Just walk around in California).
 
Then we use different kinds of grounds, furniture etc. pp.
 
These differences in preferred room size and wall material leads to different room acoustics and thus to the development of different sound preferences.
The good thing is: forget about all this as long as you listen to headphones.
 


 


This is very true indeed. Having lived in various countries (UK being my home country) there are most certainly different requirements for systems. I have heard systems that sound spectacular in North American homes (mainly wood construction and larger) but the almost identical system in a UK home is overpowered and feels bloated.

Same with a system in the UK transposed to North America seems cool and not enough guts but at home it sounds wonderful.

I think good hifi designers know this which is why often you see tuned for Europe on products, especially Ken Ishiwata's stuff. I had some of his Marantz stuff many years ago in the UK and it sounded way better than the non KI sig Marantz gear in my home. Never see KI stuff here in Canada because the stock stuff was designed in North American homes or for the NA market.

Funny thing is, I do actually hear that shaping of sound with headphones. When in the UK, I heard German gear and it always seemed a bit analytical to me, clearaudio turntables dug all the detail but left me a little cold whereas an SME gave me the detail but felt a bit more comfortable. Likewise I have had similar experiences with Sennheiser and Beyer which have always been more detail orientated to my ears as opposed to American headphones which have had a bit more guts and warmth and Japanese headphones which have had detail and a lush feeling.

The difference though has been with the headphones I can enjoy the different traits though I lean more to the NA and Japanese sound than the Germanic. Bu this is just my ears and feelings, does not make it right for others. As always with this stuff, and it is harder to do in the internet age, it is so important to do extended listening before purchase I feel
 
Jan 6, 2012 at 11:50 PM Post #71 of 95
Transposing loudspeakers system from house to house is doable compared to doing it from country to country, hehe, you're lucky to have experienced living in many places like that. :p
 
The size and the materials of used for the room's "housing" (for the house itself), now that's an argument (that's comparable to the housing of an headphone's drivers, right?). More than my ear morphology thing.
 
Jan 23, 2012 at 1:25 PM Post #72 of 95


Quote:
I decided to take the plunge on the Edition 10 a few months back, in spite of a negative predisposition after reading through Head-Fi threads on the subject. Thus my absolute surprise that some objectionable opinions felt off the mark by a wide margin. Instead, the Ed 10 offered a startlingly crystalline and electrostatic-like presentation, but with the punch of dynamics phones. It also kept the precision of the closed-back models in the Ultrasone Edition line, but with the wider and deeper soundstage of open-back designs. And we're really talking about wide-open spaces here, an almost surround-like presentation in a very un-headphone manner. As an aside, the Ed 10 is also one of the most comfortable and lightest - for its size - of all the headphones I've tried.

These positive impressions got me wondering whether the basic issue might be that because of the Ed 10's stratospheric and admittedly excessive list price, Ultrasone voiced it specifically for certain listeners of high-resolution recordings. This assumption could also explain critical views expressed by some who favor electronic music, which is by nature highly processed, equalized, compressed, and as such, less suited as a source of evaluation in this case. In contrast, many headphones have been tailored to compensate for heavy equalization and compression. So, someone who listens to electronic music with emphasized mid to high frequencies might prefer a Denon AH-D7000 instead. OTOH, the Denon's bass tends to sound boomy and undefined with orchestral material containing a lot of distantly miked percussion and double-bass.

Regardless, the Ed 10 and classical SACDs work well together, and compromises by Ultrasone over its measurements were likely made with this kind of music in mind. For instance, two of my favorite SACDs are an Exton recording of Stravinsky's Petrushka and Pulcinella with the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic conducted by Jaap van Zweden, and a Linn recording of Bach's Easter and Ascension Oratorios with the Retrospect Ensemble. Suffice to say that the texture of the orchestral landscape as reproduced by the Ed 10 is viscerally realistic - I can literally sense the texture of the strings across the vast soundstage. And the deep percussion on Petrushka sounds gloriously thunderous but perfectly controlled, as does the sparkling presentation of the overtones and transients of the piano.

With all this in mind, one reason why people feel so strongly about the Ed 10 may be that it exposes flaws on favorite recordings. Personally, I would not audition it with either low-resolution (44.1 kHz/16 Bit PCM) material or with multi-generation transfers of analog tapes. Instead, the Ed 10 is more likely to shine with state-of-the-art (DSD and High-Rez 24 Bit PCM) acoustic recordings. Then there are those who dislike it out of resentment with the cost, although I actually purchased it for substantially less than the advertised price, possibly because of the negative publicity on Head-Fi. So, as a happy Ed 10 owner, my sincere gratitude for saving me a bundle. Now, I'd appreciate if folks could just to the same for the SR-009/Blue Hawaii combo, and knock a few grands off the price as well...
 


 




Interesting advice.
 
Jan 23, 2012 at 1:26 PM Post #73 of 95


Quote:
Excellent preferences, I also listen to a lot of contemporary stuff from Nancarrow, Ornstein to Penderecki and Xenakis to Zappa. Always found that the T1s gave accurate representation of the tones and was never to harsh even in the very demanding music of Partch and Webern. Also, I found a small orthodynamic headphone called the TDS ECHO 16 KIEV to be excellent while handling tones.  



What is a T1 doing that other HP don't do ?
 
Jan 28, 2012 at 3:33 PM Post #75 of 95
^ Must be lonely.
tongue.gif

 

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