[bellsprout]

i'm interested in the "lower" end. how did the pa2v2 compare with the xenos and how did they both compare with the supermicro?

 

[vorlon1]

The supermicro is far superior to both of those. The PA2V2 is good amp for what it tries to do. It is smooth and warm, but doesn't have the soundstage or power of the other amps. The Xenos is a competent amp, but in my view the Go-Vibe sounds better in soundstaging, detail and resoution of detail. The supermicro has the largest most spacious soudstage of all, and is excellent across the board. It is burning in very nicely and it's clarity as well as sweetness in the upper mids and highs has improved. It is really an extraordinary sounding amp.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo The Supermicro IV is such a great amp that IMO everyone should get one.

Uhhh, got the message... I think.

A better question would be how does it compare to a Supermacro IV?

 

[vorlon1]

I haven't heard the macro, but I do own a mini, and I believe the micro sounds better than the mini. Although they have what might be called the "Xin sound" the micro is more transparent, sweeter, and a bit more open. I have sent the mini in for the latest update, and I do not think it is fully burned in yet, so stay tuned. I was telling Miguel, that if we took the micro and put it inside a case that had some tubes on top as a dummy case and hooked it up so that we were just using the micro at the ins and outs of the large tube case, people would think they were listening to a good sounding tube amp. That's the character the little thing has taken on, it's really started to bloom.

 

[utarch00]

How did the Pints stack up?

 

[mrarroyo]

Everything writen in blue below was done by mrarroyo, in red by Vorlon1.

Here is the write-up, hopefully it will be helpful.

Doing a product comparison is not only a demanding task but most important it is a means to clear up some misconceptions on what you thought was good and ends up being average. It is also an opportunity to be surprised by equipment that you did not expect to fare well yet against all odds it surprises you.

That was the case, at least for me (mrarroyo). Another thing I should mention is that the particular setting was very appropriate for comparing equipment, since it was a quiet office environment with no visual distractions, with comfortable seating arrangements as well as a good table to use as a platform. I say this because in some meets the sound level gets a bit loud, this is great for making new friends and to express yourself openly. However the noise and coming and going of people can definitely influence the way you perceive a particular piece of equipment.

Vorlon 1: Maybe we will end up the Ebert and Roper of the Head-Fi set, but I have some doubts. I’m glad Miguel found the environment so conducive to good listening. I, on the other hand, was expecting my staff to bang down my door any second with some crisis or other. It was quiet in there though, and we had plenty of equipment to listen to.

In my (mrarroyo) case I started comparing equipment with The Hornet “M” as my base against which I compared the various other offerings. My impressions were:

Vorlon 1: Generally I use the SR-71 as my baseline for comparison because of its many sonic attributes. (Impact, weight, clarity and detail for example).

mrarroyo: SR-71: Here I was surprised, based on my initial comparison about a year ago in which the SR-71 was the clear winner in every category I could think of. This time around it still came ahead in the clarity and detail departments. However, the differences were subtle, The Hornet “M” was a more fun and involving amp with a really great bass. Neither is better than the other, just different. An analogy I can offer is that both my AKG K701 and my Beyer DT990 sound different but both are fantastic cans. If you are looking for an amp to constantly carry around due to a hectic schedule I would recommend The Hornet “M,” it allows you to switch cans on the go without having to worry if they would be overpowered by the amp or worry that the amp won’t be able to drive them. All of this thanks to the gain switch, do not forget that it has a built in charger which would allow the user to get two wall warts, one for the office and one for home without having to worry about running out of juice or having to carry an additional battery. On the other hand if most of your listening will be at one location then the SR-71 would be a better choice. I would also choose the SR-71 if most of my listening is of classical or jazz.

Vorlon 1: mrarroyo’s Hornet really impressed me. I had an original Hornet some time ago, but I sold it because I found it too intense on the treble end and harsh sounding on many recordings. The M version has no such problem. It is warm, but very well defined and clear, with a bigger and deeper soundstage than the un-modded version. Guitar notes are sharp and clear, and vocals have detail and subtlety and a more forward presentation than the SR-71, but a pleasant degree of forwardness. I really like the presentation and tonality of the M Hornet.

mrarroyo: Go-Vibe 5: Ok, for this one I will put on my flameproof suit. Yes, the overall winner in sound quality is The Hornet “M,” however the differences IMO are very minute. The Hornet “M” does have an advantage on features such as again switch, rechargeable battery, and smaller size. However, if you are on a budget the difference in sound is not justified by the increase in price (390.50/82=4.76). By the way, those who may be concerned about theft will find that having the Go-Vibe 5 would give them the flexibility to carry a top of the line amplifier (soundwise) and not be paranoid at loosing $400 due to being mugged.

Vorlon 1: I got a Go-Vibe 5 soon after they became available and I like this amp very much and think it is a fantastic value at its price. I think it has many qualities of the SR-71 and Hornet without having all the refinement of the SR-71 or all the warmth and simultaneous clarity of the Hornet. We used mrarroyo’s Go-vibe and I thought it had a bit more warmth and sounded more like his Hornet than my Go-vibe which seems slightly less warm, but very open and clear.

mrarroyo: Pints: We had two available, one built by DieInAFire (mint case) and the other by MisterX (hammond case). I really liked the sound out of the MisterX Pint and when I compared it to the Go-Vibe 5 and The Hornet it was very close to the point I do not think I would not be able to tell them apart in a double blind test. However seeing them I would choose the Go-Vibe 5 and The Hornet over them.

Vorlon 1: The DieInAFire Pint originally had an AD 8397 in it, but I found it too upfront and asked him to modify it with an LM 6172, which he did. I find this very smooth and clean, with very good detail and a pleasant uncolored sound. The other Pint was originally in a mint tin also, but MisterX , who did not build the original version of it, was kind enough to put it in a Hammond case and put an LM 6172 in it also. It uses one 9V battery instead of two, which the DieInAFire Pint uses. It sounds similar, but I don’t think the bass is as weighty on it as the two battery version. A great amp for less than 100 dollars if you can still find the boards.

mrarroyo: Practical Devices XM3: This little amp is a great bargain overall, its only drawback is its implementation of the crossfeed since it loses a lot of volume but most importantly clarity/detail when the crossfeed is engaged. It does have various unique features such as gain switch, variable crossfeed, you can roll OP Amps, built in charger, a way to program how long you would like to have the amp on for, and a system to let you know the voltage remaining in the battery. Sound quality wise I would say it is close to the Pint by MisterX but just a tad less detail and punch.

Vorlon 1: I bought this one to see what it was like. I like the design and looks and it has entertaining features, but the crossfeed wasn’t so hot. I think it can be adjusted, but I never use crossfeed anyway so it was left at the default setting. It is a clean sounding pleasant amp, but nothing to write home about.

mrarroyo: Xenos OHA-REP: You know what they say about chocolate and vanilla? There are some people who truly love one but do not want anything to do with the other? Well, although in my case the differences were not as pronounced, this amp is not for me. I can’t honestly say it did anything wrong but at the same time it did not do anything extraordinary either. At its price I would choose the Go-Vibe 5. I will say I like the built in recharger, its smaller size, built in clip that by the way it is detachable. I do believe when OP Amp rolling is added this amp will merit a second look.

Vorlon 1: This little amp has a lot of power and gain and will drive high impedance cans very well, but I honestly find the sound mediocre. It’s not that it sounds bad, it is smooth sounding and tonally it is fine, but I like amps that let you hear background details very clearly, like the high hats in the back of a small jazz combo. These details are present with the Xenos, but the finer points of them seem lost in the mist, so to speak, they don’t sparkle like with an SR-71 which is excellent at reproducing those details.

mrarroyo: PA2V2: This amp has a special significance since it was the first portable amp I ever owned. Listening to it again brought back its abilities and limitations. If you only have $60 get it, especially if you have Grado or Etymotic cans. This little amp is made to drive Grado/Etymotic a job it does extremely well. When you put into the equation the excellent service that Gary provides it makes this amp an easy amp to own.

Vorlon 1: This is also the first amp I ever owned, and I still have it. It is smooth and warm, very pleasant to listen to, sounds good on vocals, and really does nothing very wrong. For its price it produces very nice sound, but it won’t power hard to drive cans, give you a deep and wide soundstage or bring out small details in the recording as well as the other amps, and particularly the Go-Vibe which is only 20 dollars more. Still, I haven’t sold it off…..

Mrarroyo: Dr. Xin’s Supermicro IV: Ok, here I lost all objectivity. Why, because there is no way something this small can have this huge sound. I truly believe that Dr. Xin made a deal with the Devil to make it happen. This gem has clarity, punch, detail, sound stage etc. Until you try it you can’t believe it, I mean it was driving my Senn HD600 and my Beyer DT990 without any problems!!! I have one coming in black, if it sounds as good as Vorlon1’s blue Supermicro IV I will most likely sent it back??? because I will upgrade to the Supermacro IV since I want the crossfeed feature, as well as the bass boost and the OP Amp rolling capability.

Vorlon 1: It was very entertaining to watch mrarroyo’s face when he listened to this amp. Pleasure and surprise were the order of the day, and well deserved too. This is an amazing amp. I think it was just really beginning to “bloom” in the days leading to our little meet, and it has continued to develop. If anything, it is sounding more open, clear, and crisp than it did last Saturday. I was listening to it for several hours today and found it very tubelike in the best sense, smooth, warm lush mids, clear and natural highs, no harshness anywhere, and the largest and deepest soundstage of any portable amp I have ever heard, including all the more expensive ones we listened to. It’s a real adjustment to hear sounds like this coming from a device not much larger than a hand held pencil sharpener!!

mrarroyo: Dr. Xin’s Supermini IV: This amp sounds IMO the same as the Supermicro IV. However it costs $20 more and you still need to get a charger specific to the OP Amps you will be using. This could mean another $20 to $30 each, so at the end of the day you are to about $250. Although it sounds great I would get the Supermicro IV or the Supermacro IV. Yes the Supermacro IV is $350 but you do not have to deal with jumpers for which you have to open the case and have tweezers available to change the jumpers.

Vorlon 1: Today I sent the super-mini in for the latest updates. It sounds very much like the micro, but not as open or tubelike, and doesn’t have the sparkle the micro has recently shown. This may be because it is not burned in yet and hasn’t been used as much as the micro. When it comes back from Dr. Xin I will give it more time to open up. Right now the micro is superior in sound.

mrarroyo: LaRocco PRII: This is a tank, the finish and attention to detail are everywhere. Once you hold it you are in awe at the quality it exudes. It has a very long list of attributes to make it a home amp and many use it that way. However, for me it is too big and I can not see using it as a portable or a transportable. Others may disagree and that is fine. Furthermore even though it sounds great I do not see it having much value at $500, for that money I would rather get The Hornet “M” and a Supermicro IV or the Supermacro IV and the Go-Vibe 5.

Vorlon 1: The Larocco is a very powerful amp. I had to send it back to get the gain lowered to use it with IEM’s. Even with that, it will still drive K 701’s with the volume turned high. This is a very, very clean and detailed amplifier. You can hear background details effortlessly, and the highs sparkle. At first I thought the amp a bit cold sounding, but it has warmed up some as it has burned in. The SR-71 and Hornet are warmer, the Larocco probably more neutral and it has a somewhat larger soundstage than these two amps. If you like power and detail with super clean sound you will like this amp. I do not think it is fully burned in yet, this one has the black gate caps and may very well continue to evolve. I am also trying to get the mods with the 744 chips that have been mentioned earlier in this thread.

mrarroyo: LaRocco PPA: I did not spend to much time with this amp, however it is a very solid performer and it had no noise floor (totally black). I found it to be very clear, detailed, and a fun amp to listen to.

Vorlon 1: I just got this one in a trade and haven’t listened to it much yet, but I agree with mrarroyo’s discussion above. I think it reminded me a bit of a Gilmore Lite, but with more weight and impact. I have to listen to it more….

Mrarroyo: Musical Fidelity X-Can V2: I will be brief since it is my amp and I am biased. This amp is a bargain, you can get it for $160 to $190 on the used market,and these prices include S&H to your home. It is my opinion everyone should own one because this amp has so much…groove and soul …it makes all kinds of music come alive. FYI, since I have shipped my X-Can V2 to PinkFloyd to have it modded.

I will stop because the fanboy will come out!

Vorlon 1: I am not an X-Can fanboy, but I thought this amp sounded excellent. I liked it better than my Larocco PPA and thought it was warm, clean and detailed with a good soundstage. It was very musical sounding and I thought more “tubey”(good tubey, not bloated tubey) sounding than mrarroyo’s X-Can V3 which I had heard previously. This amp is a great bargain at the used price, in my opinion.

mrarroyo: I was not going to comment on cans but since Vorlon1 did I will add my $0.02 on the Beyer DT990. This can is a major find, it has many of the elements of my RS1 and my HD600. It is extends a bit more on both bass and treble than the K701, in the begining it was to much, however it has mellowed and settle nicely. This can is a lot of fun to listen to and will get your feet tapping.

Vorlon 1: DT990s: Mrarroyo brought his new DT990s and I had the opportunity to hear them and I was very favorably impressed. I thought they sounded much more open and more natural than my 2004 DT 880s, for example. I like the open and spacious presentation of K 701s and found that these were very similar, while still having the Beyer house sound. Very enjoyable cans.

Mrarroyo: Since at the end of the day everyone will want a ranked list I will do so. Be aware that most if not all will not agree with these rankings and that is fine. We all have different ears, cans, listen to different music, and we all have different preconceptions and biases. The list is going to be done only for the 11 portables. Here it goes:

RankAmp
1Supermicro IV Xin SuperMicro IV/LaRocco PRII
2SR-71/The Hornet "M" SR-71/Hornet M
3Go-Vibe 5 DieInAFire Pint/Go-Vibe 5
4LaRocco PRII Xin Supermini IV
5Supermini IV MisterX Pint
6MisterX Pint Xenos OHA-REP
7Practical Devices XM3 PA2V2
8DieInAFire Pint Practical Devices XM3
9Xenos OHA-REP
10PA2V2


Footnotes/Clarifications by mrarroyo:
Although I ranked the LaRocco PRII as a 4 on its sound quality it would not be an amp I would purchase if I wanted a portable amp. For home use yes and for that there are better options IMO.
Although the sound of the Supermicro IV and the Supermini IV is virtually identical I have ranked the Supermini IV lower due to its complexity in using the jumpers and that you need to purchase a separate charger.
Although ranked last the PA2V2 would be my choice if I had $65 or less and I was only planning on driving Grado 60, 80, or 125 or Etymotic ER6 or ER6i. The synergy with those cans is fantastic.

 

[milkpowder]

What a tremendously well written review. Thanks a lot. Sounds like the Micro-IV may be a very good amp for an ultra-portable rig!

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkpowder What a tremendously well written review. Thanks a lot. Sounds like the Micro-IV may be a very good amp for an ultra-portable rig!

It would be a superb amp for any kind of rig! I love that amp and IMO it is better than the other 10 portable amps we tested.

 

[Romanee]

Great Ebert-Roper-style discussion, guys!!! I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Thanks for your efforts.

 

[vorlon1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanee Great Ebert-Roper-style discussion, guys!!! I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. Thanks for your efforts.

Thanks for reading it. I have to amend one part of my review. Today, I replaced the Op-Amp that came with my PRII, which was an AD 822, with an AD 8620 (scavenged from a Go-Vibe 2) and the sound improved enough to put it in tie for number 1 with the Xin micro.
What happened was, the clarity and transparency remained but the mids gained just a wee bit of warmth and greater depth which resulted in a less "solid state" or cold sound and the musicality and enjoyment increased for me tremendously. The amp retained its great presentation of detail, and overall neutrality, but the slight coldness was gone and the upper bass, midrange area had more body which gave a the sound a less analytical tone while retaining all the elements of detail in the music. So, I have to bump up its rating to be fair.
So, I see the sound as equal to the Xin micro, even though the character and presentation of the sound is very different.

 

[digitalcat]

This is the most entertaining amp review I've ever seen! I think my next amp is going to be a supermicro.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo For headphones we had: -2004 Beyer DT880

There is no 2004 DT880.

While you may have purchased them in '04, they would be the 2003 Edition.

(don't mean to nitpick, but there is already much confusion wrt the Beyer models lately, and vorlon1 is repeating you.)

Nice writeup though, guys!

 

[vorlon1]

Well, whatever year model they are, I bought them right as the new version was coming out at the beginning of 2006, not in 2004, and they are not the re-designed version.

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorlon1 Thanks for reading it. I have to amend one part of my review. Today, I replaced the Op-Amp that came with my PRII, which was an AD 822, with an AD 8620 (scavenged from a Go-Vibe 2) and the sound improved enough to put it in tie for number 1 with the Xin micro. ...

I am curious what your take would be on a fully "burned in" PV2^2-LT1210 Maxxed (3x8610, 2xBUF634 in L-R-G channels, LT1210 (1amp output) as virtual ground in power supply, 2x1500uf BlackGateNX rail caps, etc.....)? If you ever bump into one I'd be interested to know.

Now I'll look for your thoughts on the PRII+AD744 mods, if and when!

 

[carlosgp]

Great, great review. A work well done. It seems you are reducing it at:

Supermicro: Portability
Hornet: Portability with features
Go-Vibe 5: Price
SR-71 and PRII: Home use, transportable

Got it right?

(By the way, who are Ebert and Roper?)