UE10 vs Sensas: A second take

[Wmcmanus]

I've just received an interesting response from Westone!

I sent an email mentioning that I'm a UE10-Pro owner, and that I like the sound a lot but find them uncomfortable for lying in bed because of the hard acrylic material. Thus, I queried whether the ES3 would ever be available with the soft option (as the ES1 and ES2 are for a $50 upcharge), and said that I'd definitely order a pair of "soft" ES3 if possible, but otherwise would probably go with the Sensa 2S-X.

Here is the reply:

"Wayne,


The ES3 is not available in the soft option, the reason is the amount of space that is available in the soft monitor, there is not enough room to fit the components. I would not recommend the ES3 for personal listening as it was designed for guitar players and vocalists for live music application and has more mid range than is necessary for personal listening. The ES2 will give you excellent frequency response and it is available in the soft material. If you have any further questions feel free to e-mail me any time.


Sincerely..." (contact details edited out)

My only further question would be whether this is merely an effort to make a ES2 sale (which I suspect is probably the case) or if Westone really believes that the ES3 model is inappropriate for personal listening.

 

[drp]

Pure torture to those just a few hours away from having ear molds made (namely me), feeling confident about a direction, and then reading this thread... Still filling out the 2X-S order form, though writing a bit more slowly.

How about: "Welcome to Head-Fi, sorry about your gray matter."

Dave

PS Thanks Wayne, I can stop fretting over the ES3 now..... 8~)

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus I've just received an interesting response from Westone! I sent an email mentioning that I'm a UE10-Pro owner, and that I like the sound a lot but find them uncomfortable for lying in bed because of the hard acrylic material. Thus, I queried whether the ES3 would ever be available with the soft option (as the ES1 and ES2 are for a $50 upcharge), and said that I'd definitely order a pair of "soft" ES3 if possible, but otherwise would probably go with the Sensa 2S-X. Here is the reply: "Wayne, The ES3 is not available in the soft option, the reason is the amount of space that is available in the soft monitor, there is not enough room to fit the components. I would not recommend the ES3 for personal listening as it was designed for guitar players and vocalists for live music application and has more mid range than is necessary for personal listening. The ES2 will give you excellent frequency response and it is available in the soft material. If you have any further questions feel free to e-mail me any time. Sincerely..." (contact details edited out) My only further question would be whether this is merely an effort to make a ES2 sale (which I suspect is probably the case) or if Westone really believes that the ES3 model is inappropriate for personal listening.

Interesting...here's the info they sent me:
The ES3 is manufactured with an acrylic shell and a body heat
activated material on the canal portion, that softens once it reaches
body temperature. The ES3 comes with a 50" cord or you can choose the
64" cord if you like. Please have the dealer make a note of this when
they place the order.
There really is no comparison to the ue10 from Ultimateears, because
it uses two of the same low frequency speakers and one high frequency
speaker, basically it is a two-way earpiece with 3 speakers. The
Sennsaphonics 2x is also a two way earpiece. The ES3 is the only true
3-way earpiece on the market at this time and it gives greater
clarity in the mid-range and was designed with guitar players and
vocalist in mind.

 

[Zoide]

iamdone: Don't you find the bass of the 2X-S to be much stronger and textured than that of the RS-1's? (btw, what pads do you use? I'm using ported beta c-pads)

 

[mr.karmalicious]

So, the three drivers in the ES3 are all different?

One for bass, one for mids, and one for treble?

Three words: HOLY ***** !!!

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide iamdone: Don't you find the bass of the 2X-S to be much stronger and textured than that of the RS-1's? (btw, what pads do you use? I'm using ported beta c-pads)

No mods at all for me. The stock bowl pads. I've tried the flats and they have too much bass and lose detail and soundstage.

The sensas are not too bassy, just compared to the ue10 with an amp. I prefer the cleaner sound of the ue10 plus the other benefits I mentioned (soundstage,etc.)

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.karmalicious So, the three drivers in the ES3 are all different? One for bass, one for mids, and one for treble? Three words: HOLY ***** !!!

Correct.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoide iamdone: Don't you find the bass of the 2X-S to be much stronger and textured than that of the RS-1's? (btw, what pads do you use? I'm using ported beta c-pads)

One more thing I wanted to mention:

Regarding the sensas compared the RS-1. The biggest difference is the guitars, energy, and live sound on the RS-1, so I'm not just comparing bass to bass or even the frequency response at all. It's the whole presentation and sound signature of the RS-1. Sometimes the vocals might have just a little hornlike sound to them but the overall sound is just right for me.

Sensas on a whole just don't do it for me. It's not engaging enough. The ue10 at least give a great studio recording experience with the clean sound and all the details flying around but when I listen to something like the Smashing Pumpkins, only the RS-1 sounds right. The ue10 and the sensa just don't even come close.

I hope you're enjoying your RS-1. Did you even give the bowls a try before modding them?

 

[ChicagoPhil]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula That's interesting. Never tried the UE universal, so I don't know how those are. When I tried the universal fit Sensas out of my Ipod, I found the sound somewhat muffled and the highs really missing. A lot of people say the Universal Sensa sound is close to the custom sound too. Other than not caring that much for the Sensas (un)amped for portable or home use (my MS-2 easily crushed them, although the SR80 was clearly beaten), I don't know what to think about the UE and Westone products.

i had a similar impression of the universal fit Sensas out of my ipod. highs were less present and bass was a bit overwhelming on many tracks. the overall tonal balance, if I can use those terms, was shifted down a range. vocals and stringed instruments (things that I felt I had a relative sense of how they "actually" sound) didn't sound quite "right" on the Sensas.

i have the UE 10s now, and i am having some of the same issues iamdone and others have mentioned. the biggest sound issue is that the bass is a bit underwhelming. not in the "where's the bass" sense, but the extra headroom the 2nd bass driver is supposedly there to provide just left expectations a bit unfulfilled... but, all things considered, I'll take weaker bass and overall balance vs. overwhelming bass and imbalance. but i can understand others having preferences that would lead them to the opposite tradeoff preference.

my UEs are currently in transit back to me after what was hopefully a few minor adjustments to fix my fit issues. once i have the fit down, i'll hopefully get around to a full review.



Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone One last thing, do you see why I left. I'm back on for one post and I already have the Westone ES3 to think about. Everytime you go on this site, you're tempted to buy something new or mod what you already own. At least being broke helps.

you aren't helping my cause by returning to inform me that I need an amp to get more plentiful bass out of the UEs...

cheers,
phil

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChicagoPhil you aren't helping my cause by returning to inform me that I need an amp to get more plentiful bass out of the UEs... cheers, phil

Not so much just the bass as it is a balanced fuller sound. If you are just listening mostly on the go, don't get an amp. If you plan to do some serious listening or use these as your home headphones, the amp will definately add to that.

For the ipod, I recomend the pocketdock w/line-out instead of the Sik product . Gives a cleaner sound and allows whatever connecting cable to show it's properties. As for as an amp, the SR-71 works great and no worries about upgrades and has good resale value. I haven't heard the competion so I can't comment but there enough reviews in the amp section.

Sorry, this place just sucks the money out of your wallet.

 

[gorman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digihead There really is no comparison to the ue10 from Ultimateears, because it uses two of the same low frequency speakers and one high frequency speaker, basically it is a two-way earpiece with 3 speakers. The Sennsaphonics 2x is also a two way earpiece. The ES3 is the only true 3-way earpiece on the market at this time and it gives greater clarity in the mid-range and was designed with guitar players and vocalist in mind.

Yeah, this is what UE is fighting when they say to ask for a frequency response chart when somebody claims a more accurate sound reproduction.

 

[iamdone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gorman Yeah, this is what UE is fighting when they say to ask for a frequency response chart when somebody claims a more accurate sound reproduction.

But this could also being the reason a Grado fan might prefer them. The RS-1 does not have a flat sound even though to me it more accurately portrays the way most of my music should sound. As I said, on UE10, listen to something like Smashing Pumpkins or Jane's Addiction and tell me this is the it was intended to sound. Where's the energy? A frequency chart isn't everything.

 

[Zoide]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamdone One more thing I wanted to mention: Regarding the sensas compared the RS-1. The biggest difference is the guitars, energy, and live sound on the RS-1, so I'm not just comparing bass to bass or even the frequency response at all. It's the whole presentation and sound signature of the RS-1. Sometimes the vocals might have just a little hornlike sound to them but the overall sound is just right for me. Sensas on a whole just don't do it for me. It's not engaging enough. The ue10 at least give a great studio recording experience with the clean sound and all the details flying around but when I listen to something like the Smashing Pumpkins, only the RS-1 sounds right. The ue10 and the sensa just don't even come close. I hope you're enjoying your RS-1. Did you even give the bowls a try before modding them?

I'm really enjoying the RS-1's

I tried the bowls a little at the beginning, but the sound was too bright, etc. for me. However, that was before they were burned in, so I'd have to see how they'd sound now. What I'm actually more curious about for the RS-1's are the vwaps and flats. At least from some well burned-in SR-225's I'd listened to before, I far prefered the vwaps to the bowls.

 

[gords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus I've just received an interesting response from Westone! I sent an email mentioning that I'm a UE10-Pro owner, and that I like the sound a lot but find them uncomfortable for lying in bed because of the hard acrylic material. Thus, I queried whether the ES3 would ever be available with the soft option (as the ES1 and ES2 are for a $50 upcharge), and said that I'd definitely order a pair of "soft" ES3 if possible, but otherwise would probably go with the Sensa 2S-X. Here is the reply: "Wayne, The ES3 is not available in the soft option, the reason is the amount of space that is available in the soft monitor, there is not enough room to fit the components. I would not recommend the ES3 for personal listening as it was designed for guitar players and vocalists for live music application and has more mid range than is necessary for personal listening. The ES2 will give you excellent frequency response and it is available in the soft material. If you have any further questions feel free to e-mail me any time. Sincerely..." (contact details edited out) My only further question would be whether this is merely an effort to make a ES2 sale (which I suspect is probably the case) or if Westone really believes that the ES3 model is inappropriate for personal listening.

Keep in mind that UE recommends the UE-5c over the UE-10 for personal listening yet head-fiers like utdeep preferred the UE-10. Who's to say what you'll prefer?

 

[random person]

utdeep preferred the UE10 over the UE5c with the notch filter in place -- the filter had the effect of reducing the midrange somewhat. It's unclear what he would have thought of the current UE5c which no longer uses that filter.

That said, my UE5cs are collectors items in that they have the notch filter in place. To my ears, this resulted in a more balanced presentation without the articifical midrange hump. To some degree I think people might prefer that midrange hump because that is fairly characteristics of IEMs of all stripes. Since they were designed for performance rather than mastered music, they all bump the midrange. Over time I think users become habituated to that enhanced midrange, and expect it/prefer it even though it may not match the way the music would sound from speakers or in a live performance.

From what I understand, the UE10Pro has a fairly pronounced and forward midrange, which many might prefer (for vocals especially). Now for me, I had never quite adjusted to forward midrange presentation, which I find rather harsh for things like jazz in particular -- a saxophone's wail becomes a blare if it's overemphasized. So it is all a matter of personal preference, plus one's personal reference point.