[Douger333]

It's very important not to move the Magic Eraser in any direction except for up and down! Very abrasive and grabby.

 

[johnman1116]

Record Doctor V looks cool i guess, just a bit janky though. Manual rotation and cleaning?..I honestly prefer the Spin Clean method of cleaning (not drying) but the vacuum does seem nice (I have no actual experience). 

Question though: How much does it really cost to manufacture a self-rotating platter with a vacuum...? I know turntables and audio in general isn't cheap but a record cleaner doesn't need to have the best wow and flutter performance or the best materials or any of that stuff. I just needs to spin and have a vacuum. 
 
Buy a cheap crosley and get one of those little handheld vacuums. That's basically it, with obviously more engineering. I know that there very expensive things in audio and very cheap, as well as in life, but still.. the spin clean is basically, no offense, a bucket with a brush clamp and a towel. 
 
For some reason a ~$500 record cleaner bothers me but a $1000 headphone or $10,000 speaker or even $200 (no more than that!) cable doesn't. I always thought those expensive records cleaners literally did everything for you: You put the record in, hit a switch and it cleans both sides of the record, drys and done. I actually thought you could put a bunch of records in and it would clean it one by one, kind of like the motion of a jukebox. That's what I thought the size was for. I'm a bit disappointed about that. 

Sorry if I offended one or anything like that. I didn't mean to, just had to get this off my chest.
#rantover. 

 

[captslow]

  What bugs me about the Spin Clean is the wipe it dry with an abrasive towel part.

That bothers me, too. I have been meaning to upgrade to a vpi 16.5 or an okki noki... but I have had other audio priorities. 

 

[brunk]

@johnman1116 - I agree with you too, there's a certain point where bells start going off in your head that tells you "...really?" but i do see why they are expensive....they actually provide real results. I think a record cleaner is akin to the difference of a CD or mp3. You can't retrieve what isn't there, or in this case, hidden by dirt and grime.

 

[inthecup]

Currently have a Rega 3 TT running with a Rotel receiver ... Need a new phono stage .. Had a Cambridge 640 ... Any idea .. Budget $500 give or take a little ... Thinking going tube for the first time .. Jolida looks interesting .. Any help for this low tech old guy will be appreciated.

 

[analogsurviver]

I will have to give Magic Eraser ( seemingly "cosa nostra" from the USA ) a try as a stylus cleaner. However, I can not imagine it can meet let alone exceed the results of Glassrubber . I found one online albeit under different name : ebay # 270971223928 . It is advisable to work with it under a decent microscope - results can be seen in my posts with diamond styli under USB microscope "before" and "after". If you are working carefully and have steady hand, it can be used with cart mounted on the arm/TT.
 
Regarding RCM: I was considering some decent vacuum RCM, being from Europe that means Okki Nokki offering best bang for the buck. However,
after seeing two ultrasonic cleaners also posted here, and 1 year experience with the top Clearaudio in daily pro use in retail shop - and realizing its limitations, I decided to get - or make DIY - ultrasonic RCM. In the USA, I would get Audio Advisor 199$ unit for the interim period, after shipping and import duties to Europe this no longer looks so attractive vs Okki Nokki for the not too great difference in price.

 

[JamieMcC]

Youtube
 
Record Cleaning Machines: Okki Nokki vs. VPI 16.5 - A Comparison
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4jsr13V6ao

 

[monimabide]

yes,MC carts present a load impedance of like 100-1000 ohms, whereas MM is 47kOhms.thank you

 

[analogsurviver]

  yes,MC carts present a load impedance of like 100-1000 ohms, whereas MM is 47kOhms.thank you

No, this is approximate ballpark of the RESISTIVE load presented by the preamplifier/tonearm wiring for the MC as a group and MM as a group cartridges. It is true that "industry default" value for input resistance for MMs is 47Kohms - but real world values for best possible response of MMs can vary a great deal, from about 10Kohms to about 100Kohms. Very few MMs actually require 47Kohms for best results - it is simply a standard, nothing more and nothing less. The same as saying "one size fits all" for clothes - from midgets to basketball team. 
 
With MMs, it is also very important to present the cartridge with optimum CAPACITIVE load. It can play havoc with frequency response if mismatched,
and this fundamental nonunderstanding of hows and whys of MM makes any MM cartridge review ever published VERY suspect regarding subjective sound quality described. The same sample of cart can sound totally different with another arm ( WIRING !!!! ) and phono stage - the difference can FAR outstrip any inherent cartridge qualities.
 
Although capacitance can be used to finely tune the response of MCs, it has next to negligible effects compared to what it does to MMs. More in the upcoming post about phono cartridge load(s).

 

[dosley01]

  Record Doctor V looks cool i guess, just a bit janky though. Manual rotation and cleaning?..I honestly prefer the Spin Clean method of cleaning (not drying) but the vacuum does seem nice (I have no actual experience). 

Question though: How much does it really cost to manufacture a self-rotating platter with a vacuum...? I know turntables and audio in general isn't cheap but a record cleaner doesn't need to have the best wow and flutter performance or the best materials or any of that stuff. I just needs to spin and have a vacuum. 
 
Buy a cheap crosley and get one of those little handheld vacuums. That's basically it, with obviously more engineering. I know that there very expensive things in audio and very cheap, as well as in life, but still.. the spin clean is basically, no offense, a bucket with a brush clamp and a towel. 
 
For some reason a ~$500 record cleaner bothers me but a $1000 headphone or $10,000 speaker or even $200 (no more than that!) cable doesn't. I always thought those expensive records cleaners literally did everything for you: You put the record in, hit a switch and it cleans both sides of the record, drys and done. I actually thought you could put a bunch of records in and it would clean it one by one, kind of like the motion of a jukebox. That's what I thought the size was for. I'm a bit disappointed about that. 

Sorry if I offended one or anything like that. I didn't mean to, just had to get this off my chest.
#rantover. 

I had the spin clean before the VPI.  I was fortunate to get a great deal on a used 16.5 but out of everything I have purchased since getting back into vinyl, IMHO it had the greatest bang for the buck.  (except for maybe the $2 Magic Eraser). 
 
I honestly couldn't imagine not having one now. 

 

[bbophead]

Nitty Gritty Mini-Pro.  Both sides wash and vacuum at the same time.  That's as much time as I have for this procedure.  Soft brush for the stylus.  Occasional Oznow and carbon fiber stylus brush.

 

[Hi-Five]

  Record Doctor V looks cool i guess, just a bit janky though. Manual rotation and cleaning?..I honestly prefer the Spin Clean method of cleaning (not drying) but the vacuum does seem nice (I have no actual experience). 

Question though: How much does it really cost to manufacture a self-rotating platter with a vacuum...? I know turntables and audio in general isn't cheap but a record cleaner doesn't need to have the best wow and flutter performance or the best materials or any of that stuff. I just needs to spin and have a vacuum. 
 
Buy a cheap crosley and get one of those little handheld vacuums. That's basically it, with obviously more engineering. I know that there very expensive things in audio and very cheap, as well as in life, but still.. the spin clean is basically, no offense, a bucket with a brush clamp and a towel. 
 
For some reason a ~$500 record cleaner bothers me but a $1000 headphone or $10,000 speaker or even $200 (no more than that!) cable doesn't. I always thought those expensive records cleaners literally did everything for you: You put the record in, hit a switch and it cleans both sides of the record, drys and done. I actually thought you could put a bunch of records in and it would clean it one by one, kind of like the motion of a jukebox. That's what I thought the size was for. I'm a bit disappointed about that. 

Sorry if I offended one or anything like that. I didn't mean to, just had to get this off my chest.
#rantover. 

 
Your opinion is quite valid; value is a highly personal metric.
 
I will say however, that the high cost of record cleaning machines comes down to one word...scale.  The numbers are far too low to have "assembly line" pricing IMO.  I work in a small engineering and manufacturing shop and it is a simple fact that low volume equals high cost.  I find the asking price of the VPI 16.5 to be very fair.  I always imagine what it would cost if I were to make something myself vs. buying off the shelf.  If you were to total up the cost of the high-torque drive motor, vacuum motor, machined plastic components, electronics, enclosure materials, as well as testing and assembly hours I think you'd be somewhere near 60-80% of the sell price (yes I'm making wild @ss guesses here).  Then it's a matter of how much your time is worth, and whether you'd be happy with the end product.
 
In my case, it was worth it to pay the sticker price for the 16.5, and I consider its value very high for what it gives me in piece of mind and improvement (real or perceived) in sound quality.
 
That said, a jukebox style multi-disk cleaner would be super, super cool!
 
Best,
Hi-Five

 

[johnman1116]

Thank you everyone for barely my rant so thoughtfully  
 
Quote:

  @johnman1116 - I agree with you too, there's a certain point where bells start going off in your head that tells you "...really?" but i do see why they are expensive....they actually provide real results. I think a record cleaner is akin to the difference of a CD or mp3. You can't retrieve what isn't there, or in this case, hidden by dirt and grime.

Lol to me $100 is expensive (about as much as I am willing to pay) for a record cleaner. I am definitely not discrediting the use of cleaning records. I actually think its kind of cool. Nerdy but cool 

 

  I will have to give Magic Eraser ( seemingly "cosa nostra" from the USA ) a try as a stylus cleaner. However, I can not imagine it can meet let alone exceed the results of Glassrubber . I found one online albeit under different name : ebay # 270971223928 . It is advisable to work with it under a decent microscope - results can be seen in my posts with diamond styli under USB microscope "before" and "after". If you are working carefully and have steady hand, it can be used with cart mounted on the arm/TT.
 
Regarding RCM: I was considering some decent vacuum RCM, being from Europe that means Okki Nokki offering best bang for the buck. However,
after seeing two ultrasonic cleaners also posted here, and 1 year experience with the top Clearaudio in daily pro use in retail shop - and realizing its limitations, I decided to get - or make DIY - ultrasonic RCM. In the USA, I would get Audio Advisor 199$ unit for the interim period, after shipping and import duties to Europe this no longer looks so attractive vs Okki Nokki for the not too great difference in price.

What do you mean by ultrasonic cleaners? Sorry if its something obvious. Is it a manufacturer or some alternative method cleaner? Thanks. 
How do you clean your records? You must clean your records.... 

 

  Youtube
 
Record Cleaning Machines: Okki Nokki vs. VPI 16.5 - A Comparison
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4jsr13V6ao

Seems like the Okki Nokki is the better choice. OOO controversy!  
 

 
I had the spin clean before the VPI.  I was fortunate to get a great deal on a used 16.5 but out of everything I have purchased since getting back into vinyl, IMHO it had the greatest bang for the buck.  (except for maybe the $2 Magic Eraser). 
 
I honestly couldn't imagine not having one now. 

That's why its so mindboggling for me, the fact that the vpi 16.5 is considered a great bang for buck. Maybe I just need to experience it~ 
Still a young padawan I am. 

 

  Nitty Gritty Mini-Pro.  Both sides wash and vacuum at the same time.  That's as much time as I have for this procedure.  Soft brush for the stylus.  Occasional Oznow and carbon fiber stylus brush.

come on... $1.2k to clean and vacuum both sides? but yea this is what I am looking for. I'm glad I atleast know something like that is out there.
 

   
Your opinion is quite valid; value is a highly personal metric.
 
I will say however, that the high cost of record cleaning machines comes down to one word...scale.  The numbers are far too low to have "assembly line" pricing IMO.  I work in a small engineering and manufacturing shop and it is a simple fact that low volume equals high cost.  I find the asking price of the VPI 16.5 to be very fair.  I always imagine what it would cost if I were to make something myself vs. buying off the shelf.  If you were to total up the cost of the high-torque drive motor, vacuum motor, machined plastic components, electronics, enclosure materials, as well as testing and assembly hours I think you'd be somewhere near 60-80% of the sell price (yes I'm making wild @ss guesses here).  Then it's a matter of how much your time is worth, and whether you'd be happy with the end product.
 
In my case, it was worth it to pay the sticker price for the 16.5, and I consider its value very high for what it gives me in piece of mind and improvement (real or perceived) in sound quality.
 
That said, a jukebox style multi-disk cleaner would be super, super cool!
 
Best,
Hi-Five

 
I like your way of thinking; Wish I was an industry engineer so I could accurately do the same I recently went to Seattle and went up the Space Needle. Fun fact, the whole Restaurant at the top is powered by a 1.5 horsepower motor! The closest RCM to a jukebox i found was the Ultrasonic v-9 Record Cleaner. $1495, cleans both sides but air drys? come on.... 

Seems like ill have to buy a 16.5~ not before I have like 100 records.. 
 
Thanks everyone! 

 

[analogsurviver]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WDDVTUu3_A
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rod79YwW4PA
 
Above machines are 4K+$ - therefore not surprising to find DIY approach like
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bLMISNRRrk

 

[calipilot227]

I use the following:
 
-KAB EV-1 (www.kabusa.com/ev1). EVERY RECORD, including new, goes through it before it ever goes on my turntable. Then it goes into a Mobile Fidelity sleeve. Hook it up to a powerful vacuum, and it'll clean just as well as the VPI machine. I rarely have to clean the same record again within six months. I would recommend this over the Spin Clean any day.
 
-Hunt EDA carbon fiber brush before every play. This gets rid of the inevitable light surface dust. If I never let the record get dirty, I won't need to wet-clean it. It also helps reduce the static buildup.
 
-For the stylus, I use a simple brush. I probably should use a liquid cleaner from time to time, but I don't. Then again, see my first point.