[DeathDomokun]

Best bang for my buck: new or old? (TT that is)

 

[analogsurviver]

  Best bang for my buck: new or old? (TT that is)

The same type of question as what was first : a chicken or an egg 

 ?
 
I will cover this in my promised answer "How much minimum should a newbie invest in QUALITY analog setup? "
 
And as I wrote, this is streeeeeeeeeee..............................................tchyyyyyyyyyy .
Any you can not put a firm price tag on it - not really.

 

[DeathDomokun]

Well, looking at the project and rega models (the orbit does not ship worldwide..) compared to older gear.
 
I haven't heard anything, but I would think newer gear would be better than older gear.
Even if I just go by wiring and electronics, if nothing else..
 
Can I do better than an entry level new TT for the same price with old gear?
or am i still asking how long a piece of string is? 

 
and can a cheap phono stage serve me well or am i better off looking at the bugle?

 

[analogsurviver]

  Well, looking at the project and rega models (the orbit does not ship worldwide..) compared to older gear.
 
I haven't heard anything, but I would think newer gear would be better than older gear.
Even if I just go by wiring and electronics, if nothing else..
 
Can I do better than an entry level new TT for the same price with old gear?
or am i still asking how long a piece of string is? 

 
and can a cheap phono stage serve me well or am i better off looking at the bugle?

In new TTs, Project and Rega models are the known, proven suspects. Tons of reviews.  Their cost is also well known - so if your budgest stretches to XY $ - and not one single cent above - choose the one you can find "locally" at a "decent price". They also usually come in "plug and play" ( "nothing" to adjust) condition, so safe for a total noob.
 
In old/used/even NOS, the FIRST thing to ask yourselves is whether you have some predisposition for fine mechanics - or you were dealt two left hands in this regard. If there is at least a glimpse of right hand in sight AND willingness to learn along the way, coupled with ENOUGH TIME, old/used/NOS can offer the best bang for the buck. Coupled with willingness to research the used market and enough patience for the desired unit(s) to come up for sale. If you want your TT "yesterday"- buying new is the only way.
 
Some time ago, member Delirios Lab first had a towards-the-BOTL Technics TT that he complained mistracked on his operatic sopranos. I pointed him, quite correctly, to check for the tonearm bearing friction. It turned out that arm
had too stiff lateral bearing(s). Instead trying a new cart on that TT, which would have brought essentially nothing, he
was able to exchange/upgrade that lowly Technics for an old-as-the-hills (OK, a bit less ) Ariston RD 11S table with the Grace G 727 arm - a combo of wet dreams of many hifi enthusiasts back in the late 70s/early 80s - and still a VERY competent performer today. This case was much more than just a lucky shot - I would have never "recommended" to look for this combo in the used market, as it is simply too rare even back in the days, let alone today - but it IS possible to find deals>steals .
 
Phono preamps : if you have to economize, ALWAYS skimp on phono compared to the stylus. Assume your budget is say $ 1000; TT/arm say 500, cart 200, phono preamp 300 ? 
 
WRONG !!!! You can get a chinese made phono ( MM input only ) called TC 750 under many "manufacturer's names" - at approx $50 + shipping. It looks like this http://www.ebay.de/itm/TCC-TC-750-BLACK-Phono-Preamp-with-PREMIUM-AC-ADAPTOR-/110705467744?pt=US_Record_Player_Turntable_Parts&hash=item19c68f6160
Then there is a DY-styled phono preamp that offers both MM and MC input capability for about the same money, recommended by member Arcrob. I bought TC-750 out of sheer curiosity what bottom price phono can do these days - and was VERY pleasently surprised. ( the unit is dead quiet when used correctly; if it hums/buzzes, if there is radio frequency interference - RFI ; it is your cabling/grounding, TC-750 is vice-free ). You have to use MUCH better than "$ 1000 analog setup" for the defects of TC-750 to become too glaring to neglect. You can go from 200 to 430 for the cart/stylus this way - and 430$ cart trough TC-750 will almost always outperform 200$ cart trough a $ 300 phono stage.
 
On the other end of the price spectrum, there are 35000 $ tonearms, 30000 + $ cartridges, six figures (first digit NOT one ) turntables - with matching phono preamps/price tags. 
 
But the biggest bang for the buck/quality jump is most likely from $200 to $ 430 (or so) phono cart/stylus. THE MOST IMPORTANT - this jump will preserve your records for the future, if and when more funds become available.

 

[Skylab]

Great post, AS. Lots of good stuff there.

For me, you can get a better entry level bang for the buck with a "vintage" TT BUT, just as AS said, you will have to be able to feel comfortable setting up and aligning the cartridge yourself. No matter what any seller would tell me, when I bought a vintage TT, the cartridge would be replaced. And so it has to be installed and aligned. A new Pro-abject, Music hall, etc, will come with all that already done. So if you want plug and play, I would go that way.

BTW, for people who can stretch just a bit, the new VPI Nomad with it's built in phono stage sounded VERY good at Axpona...comes with a Ortofon 2M Red pre-installed.

 

[analogsurviver]

Great post, AS. Lots of good stuff there.

For me, you can get a better entry level bang for the buck with a "vintage" TT BUT, just as AS said, you will have to be able to feel comfortable setting up and aligning the cartridge yourself. No matter what any seller would tell me, when I bought a vintage TT, the cartridge would be replaced. And so it has to be installed and aligned. A new Pro-abject, Music hall, etc, will come with all that already done. So if you want plug and play, I would go that way.

BTW, for people who can stretch just a bit, the new VPI Nomad with it's built in phono stage sounded VERY good at Axpona...comes with a Ortofon 2M Red pre-installed.

It is not only replacing/aligning the cart; TT itself has to be cleaned, lubed, minor but all important settings have to be done, etc, etc.
 
I might start phono setup, with pics of the real styli, their performance as measured by an oscilloscope, maybe brief "needledrops", in duration short enough no legal action regarding copyrights can be launched back at me, etc. 
 
If one has the knowledge what to look for, a really good setup  (used, off ebay, craiglist, etc ) can be had for less than 500. But it does require commitment, mostly in time. And you have to sacrifice the most commonly known brands/models - even a totally shot Linn Sondek LP 12, for example, would still command relatively high price.

 

[BLACKENEDPLAGUE]

I found a Thorens TD160 in my area for $350. If you can find that you can't do better for the money

 

[calipilot227]

  I am having a hard time finding decent EPOS speakers within my price range. Can someone suggest an alternative to the EPOS ELS3 or tell guide me on locating them?

 
You could try the Epic 2 ($799) or Epic 1 ($499), they're quite good. How much were you looking to spend?

 

[raptorn60]

Hi guys,
 
Recently I've got my hands on a very old Pioneer Turntable model PL-221z.
Since I'm a total noob to the turntables, I've encountered some questions:
1. The turntable comes along with a Phono Amp, which is very large, and since I use headphones most of my time, I was wondering whether it will work directly with a Headphone Amp (specifically rudistor rpx35) ? The Pioneer cartridges are most likely to be MMs, so it may provide enough signal for the headphone amps, right?
2. The phono cartridge and the stylus seems to be somewhat damaged. I have looked up the internet for the replacement parts, but I was overwhelmed by the diversity of the cartridges and stylus. If anyone knows any replacement parts for Pioneer PC-290t (phono cartridge) and PN-290t (stylus), that would be of great help! Also, because I live in China, some smaller provider products may not be available to me, replacement products from larger companies (maybe like Audio Technica?) should be easier for me to find.
 
Thanks in advance for any reply!

 

[Skylab]

You definitely cannot plug the turntable directly into the headphone amp. Do you know the model number of the phono preamp you have?

That Pioneer cartridge would probably be better replaced with a new cartridge. The audio Technica AT-95 would be fairly equivalent.

 

[RUMAY408]

I have been reading about Jack White's new album Lazaretto.  Described as an Ultra LP.  Has 2 vinyl only hidden tracks one runs at 78rpm the other at 45rpm.  "Dual groove technology" plays either an electric or acoustic intro for "Just One Drink."  The album plays at three different speeds!
 
"Zero compression" and using "seldom used flat-edged format."
 
Any impressions, his last album "Blunderbuss" is outstanding on vinyl.

 

[RUMAY408]

I forgot to add the A side plays from the inside of the LP out and there is a floating hologram on the A side.  The songs on the vinyl album will sound different than the CD and if you don't have access to 45 or 78 speed the album will include an mp3 version as well.

 

[raptorn60]

Thanks alot for the reply, Skylab!
 
The model of the amp is Stereo Double Cassette Tape Deck Amplifier DC-221Z. The turntable comes with the amp/cassette player, FM/AM digital synthesizer tuner TX-221Z
Thanks on the recommendation though, I might just get the AT-95 cartridge.

 

[raptorn60]

  Thanks alot for the reply, Skylab!
 
The model of the amp is Stereo Double Cassette Tape Deck Amplifier DC-221Z. The turntable comes with the amp/cassette player, FM/AM digital synthesizer tuner TX-221Z
Thanks on the recommendation though, I might just get the AT-95 cartridge.

Also, I just found out that the PL-221z uses P-mount instead of half-inch mount, don't know if AT-95s are compatible with it...

 

[CH23]

I forgot to add the A side plays from the inside of the LP out and there is a floating hologram on the A side.  The songs on the vinyl album will sound different than the CD and if you don't have access to 45 or 78 speed the album will include an mp3 version as well.

I would go with "gimmick"

I bought the Great Gatsby soundtrack from their hand (gold and platina 'playable' records) and i have to say that it's bad for your stylus.

I might buy it if i can find it for €20, but otherwise i wont.

Can't even play side A, due to the linear nature of my turntable