TURNTABLE SETUP Questions thread - don't start a new thread, ASK YOUR QUESTION HERE!

May 23, 2013 at 1:35 PM Post #1,459 of 3,585
Quote:
Well, through my speakers my setup sound darker than through my amp and headphones. Headphone setup is brighter because my amp is bright and my headphones is neutral.

How bright is "bright" anyway? Any comparisons?

I don't have any other cartridges to compare to....but I'm talking that I'm a treble head, and I turn down the treble on my EQ while listening to vinyl with this cartridge 
 
May 23, 2013 at 2:50 PM Post #1,460 of 3,585
Quote:
Well, through my speakers my setup sound darker than through my amp and headphones. Headphone setup is brighter because my amp is bright and my headphones is neutral.

How bright is "bright" anyway? Any comparisons?

One of the most unthankful questions to be answered in all of audio is:
 
HOW DOES XY MOVING MAGNET CARTRIDGE SOUND ? - WITHOUT specifying load conditions for that cartridge. Here total capacitance of the connecting cable, input capacitance of the phono input and input resistance of the phono input have to be taken into account - and even all those data are NOT sufficient to predict how a given MM cart will actually sound in actual combination.
 
AT MMs are generally thougt of as "bright" - very rarely you will find them characterized as "warm". But they can be tamed well enough to become " on the brighter side of the truth" as opposed to plain "(too) bright".
 
I will post further details on this in about a week - the way about doing it the practical way. My internet modem went R.I.P. - and within a couple of days I will be regularly online and will properly answer this question.
 
May 23, 2013 at 7:32 PM Post #1,461 of 3,585
Quote:
Turntable is a Marlux MX-86, AT51 cart, TCC TC-750 phono stage, Edifier R1900T3 2.0 active monitor speakers, and a headphone setup consisting of Aune T1 DAC+amp and Goldring DR150. Budget should be around $100-$150, also just now I came across some buzz about Denon DL110, googled around and found out how wonderful people say it is. Only problem is it is an MC cart, my phono is an MM, though some of them said it can be connected to an MM phono because this is a high output MC cart (?). That doesn't sound very proper.
 
I love how the setup is sounding, but I feel like having a bit of a change once in a while. Also considering the AT440mla as well.

 
If the DL110 is a High Output Moving Coil cartridge then the correct loading is normally the MM input on your phono pre-amp.
This is what I've been doing for years with several High Output Moving Coil Sumiko cartridges.
 
May 27, 2013 at 4:23 PM Post #1,462 of 3,585
Well. My adventures with the KAB superduperdeluxe SL1200 MK II continue. Confession: I really suck at turntable setup. Actually, I may not be that bad at this but I'm definitely at the bottom of the learning curve. It turned out I had a couple of issues with my tonearm (that my eyes still can't find on the old one; evidently the gimbal was out of alignment, and the arm tube had a small crease in it), and it was in need of replacement. Also the Denon 103R cart I was trying to use had a damaged cantilever. So off it will go to Soundsmith at some point... maybe. I "got a deal" on it, figures.
 
This is my third "real" TT, and it's the best I've heard in quite some time now and definitely the best I've ever owned since the upgrades. The fluid for the arm damping mechanism is a trip. It's kind of the consistency of epoxy before it hardens. Evidently it stays that way and doesn't evaporate. Anybody know what it is? It came in a syringe, and I used half of the syringe's contents to fill the damping reservoir halfway as instructed. And I need to call or email Kevin because it seems that when trying to set the VTF the fluid damping may be complicating things. But since it's a holiday I'll run it by you guys first...
 
When following the directions for setting the VTF, everything was fine until I put the viscous fluid into the reservoir. Then I tried to re-set it, and there still didn't seem to be enough mass to get a good read into the music (it barely made sound) with the recommended tracking force. I dialed down the main counterweight, and it wasn't enough so I taped the 3-gram spacer weight that is supposed to be sandwiched in between the cart (if desired) and the headshell on top of the headshell (pictured, as to not affect the tonearm height...?), backed off the counterweight to the middle or so and viola, I had music!
 
So I have no idea how to actually fine-tune the VTF at this point; setting the recommended (edit: for the Red1) 1.5 grams for anti-skate and tracking force seems to me to be a very spurious method at this point, as the "reach a point where the tonearm just begins to lift off of the arm rest. STOP turning the counterweight--this is the zero position" technique doesn't seem to apply anymore with the fluid damping. I tried my handy-dandy Ortofon tracking force scale and it seems a bit suspect as well, as the pivot has a bit of friction and it likes to stick. So basically I have been reduced to trying to find the sweet spot by ear, which leads me to believe that I'm probably not getting the anti-skate right, for one thing at least. Any suggestions would be welcome...
 


 
On the "flip side", the Grado Red1 is breaking in nicely, and seems to improve upon every listen. It sounds better through the LCD2 better than it does with the PS1000, which was too "Grado-ie" of a combo. Matching headphones to cartridges is very interesting. I put in a new DL103 that I had on deck and as expected it was an improvement. Also as I expected, I preferred the PS1K to the LCD with the Denon cart. I will continue to explore the Grado and Denon sounds, but I have a feeling that the Dynavector 10X5 may hit the sweet spot in my system ultimately so that one is next to try before I put more $ into the Denons/Grados.
 
I've already posted about the various upgrades for Grado's Gold1, and Soundsmith has some very interesting possibilities for the Denon 103R.
 
I will probably pick up another M5G headshell at some point, as I was thinking of changing it out for the Grado because it has the 4-gram screw-on weight, but that will affect the height of the the tonearm. Since the Red1 is already taller than the DL103, I will use the spacer weight with the DL103 as I have been reading that the already-heavy DL103 benefits from the extra weight, along with adding the additional counterweight at the end of the arm. So now that I think about it the sandwich weight will probably be a better solution for the Denon because of cartridge/arm height issues.
 
In the pics above, the DL103 is without any extra weights anywhere, and the sandwich weight is taped to the top of the Red1 headshell so I'm about to switch things around a bit. The DL103 is still a clear improvement over the Grado, although the Grado is not bad at all. With the Denon, there's more texture and depth to the bass and the soundstage is greatly improved.
 
Overall, the fluid damping alone changed the sound of this TT completely and I feel that I am finally on the right track with my vinyl listening. As mentioned, any comments will be appreciated.
 
May 27, 2013 at 5:27 PM Post #1,464 of 3,585
Right, the Grado is 1.5 and the Denon is around 2.5 grams as you said. I'm using the passive AU-300LC as a step-up into my GCPH for the Denon.
 
May 27, 2013 at 6:07 PM Post #1,465 of 3,585
Pardon me for being a bit dim. You use the AU-300LC into the PS Audio GCPH then into a power amp. I just checked the specs on the GCPH. It has a variable Voltage gain: 42/48/54/60dB (unbalanced); 48/54/60/66dB (balanced), plus the additional gain attenuator at the front. Isn't that enough without the AU-300?
 
May 27, 2013 at 6:23 PM Post #1,466 of 3,585
Nope, I have it cranked up to 66 (max) gain with a 100 ohm load setting as advised, and into my WA22 balanced pre/head amp. I have the gain cell at around 1-2pm on the GCPH, which leaves me with lots of headroom on the Woo, at a similar level as the balanced DACs I have fed it with. I am using high-gain power tubes in the Woo just for reference. The 300LC is passive and really is more of a fine-tuner than an active step-up transformer, that seems to be the consensus anyways that it doesn't really "step-up" as much as expected. Having said that even with the Grado, a high-output MC cart that has MM-level output, I have the GCPH gain ticked up to 54 instead of the recommended 48 to get to that same level.
 

 
May 27, 2013 at 6:41 PM Post #1,467 of 3,585
ph34r.gif
. Well bu@@er me. I have the Denon 103R on my PL570 and I'm starting to think I'll need a step-up device if my Pioneer dosen't do the job, when I get it back.
 
May 27, 2013 at 6:45 PM Post #1,468 of 3,585
One benefit of the 300LC is that it doesn't add any noise at all. It's too bad it doesn't add much gain either!
 
Jun 6, 2013 at 10:53 AM Post #1,469 of 3,585
So I just purchased an Audio Technica AT LP-60 turntable. I have never used a turntable before, but was sick of passing up on cheap vinyls at garage sales, etc. that I decided to give it a shot. I tried using the RCA adapters to plug into old computer speakers, but that didn't work and no sound was produced. I also tried hooking up to my computer speakers by connecting the RCA cords and then plugging in to the headphone jacks. So is it correct then, that I need some sort of receiver in between whatever speakers I have/purchase? I understand there are active and passive speakers. I am assuming all my speakers are passive. Regardless, I am willing to dish out some more money on additional equipment, but I have a Gigaware model 40-303 iPod dock that outputs excellent sound (also tried using this and no sound) and I didn't know if I could incorporate that into my setup or if I will be best served buying some sort of receiver AND a speaker system. I apologize if this post makes little sense, I am very new to turntables. Thanks for your help!
 
Jun 6, 2013 at 10:53 AM Post #1,470 of 3,585
So I just purchased an Audio Technica AT LP-60 turntable. I have never used a turntable before, but was sick of passing up on cheap vinyls at garage sales, etc. that I decided to give it a shot. I tried using the RCA adapters to plug into old computer speakers, but that didn't work and no sound was produced. I also tried hooking up to my computer speakers by connecting the RCA cords and then plugging in to the headphone jacks. So is it correct then, that I need some sort of receiver in between whatever speakers I have/purchase? I understand there are active and passive speakers. I am assuming all my speakers are passive. Regardless, I am willing to dish out some more money on additional equipment, but I have a Gigaware model 40-303 iPod dock that outputs excellent sound (also tried using this and no sound) and I didn't know if I could incorporate that into my setup or if I will be best served buying some sort of receiver AND a speaker system. I apologize if this post makes little sense, I am very new to turntables. Thanks for your help!
 

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