[crimbo912]

Are turntable clamps a gimmick?

 

[analogsurviver]

  Are turntable clamps a gimmick?

Absolutely not. 
 
But they have to be used in conjunction with the mat and turntable - there is no such thing as universally best mat or clamp. It depends on the turntable, mostly its platter. The same mat and clamp combo can be devine on one turntable - while being detrimental on another.
 
There also exist turntables that were designed to sound their best WITHOUT any clamping.
 
As you can see, no generalization is possible on this matter. It is different from case to case - and best solutions are usually found in turntables that were designed with clamping in mind from ground up.

 

[yeahx]

I know any type of DIY or repurposing is frowned about by some, but I have been looking around for interesting cheap solutions to try this out. A friend of mine has this great marble ashtray I bet would be great. 

 There is a $30ish clamp that is a flat disc that I think clamps onto the spindle. Good for tables that shouldn't have lots of extra weight put on them.
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-6924-clearaudio-clever-clamp.aspx?source=igodigital&
 
I have been thinking about posting this in the under $2000 setup thread.

 

[analogsurviver]

  I know any type of DIY or repurposing is frowned about by some, but I have been looking around for interesting cheap solutions to try this out. A friend of mine has this great marble ashtray I bet would be great. 

 There is a $30ish clamp that is a flat disc that I think clamps onto the spindle. Good for tables that shouldn't have lots of extra weight put on them.
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-6924-clearaudio-clever-clamp.aspx?source=igodigital&
 
I have been thinking about posting this in the under $2000 setup thread.

This is perhaps the best Clearaudio product - EVER.

 

[yeahx]

Good to know! I will put it on my growing wish list. I thought the large peanut butter jar lid with a weight on top would be good but it turned out that it wasn't even... 

 

[analogsurviver]

  Good to know! I will put it on my growing wish list. I thought the large peanut butter jar lid with a weight on top would be good but it turned out that it wasn't even... 

TBH, you crack me up with your "below any reasonable budget" suggestions regarding turntables - but in a positive, inspiring way. Something like this :
 

 
ABSOLUTELY no offense intended - please bring them on !

 

[yeahx]

Well I do it partly because Im broke but I also just like to fiddle with stuff. Especially when every time I see one of these I think of a heavy kitchen sink plug that cost $150! 

 

I knew you would get a laugh out of my experiment and I don't mind. I just get the feeling somewhere in a thrift store or garage sale there is something the right weight and size to do the job for $5 or less and it doesn't hurt to try them out if you can't afford $50-2000 to clamp a record.
 
Oh just for fun, maybe I should mention that while I was out for a walk today I found a rubber thing that appears to be the same diameter as a 45 adapter and has a tight fit on the spindle. Yep I brought it home, maybe I can use it to center a DIY weight in the future. I will keep you posted but not in this thread. 

 

[analogsurviver]

  Well I do it partly because Im broke but I also just like to fiddle with stuff. Especially when every time I see one of these I think of a heavy kitchen sink plug that cost $150! 

 

I knew you would get a laugh out of my experiment and I don't mind. I just get the feeling somewhere in a thrift store or garage sale there is something the right weight and size to do the job for $5 or less and it doesn't hurt to try them out if you can't afford $50-2000 to clamp a record.

I agree clamps CAN be the "man's jewelry" - with appropriate pricing. IKEA ((who else?) had/has? door stoppers neat enough to be used as record weights - at around $ 5. They also had a rubber "puck" also meant as door stopper, that can be used as clamp. It is functional, but totally devoid of any bling (which is how I like it ).
 
The catch with clamps mats etc is the fact that the HAVE TO BE PRECISELY MADE. Really good examples will put most reasonably priced turntables to shame regarding the precision of running.  And that is costly. 
 
The same goes for mats. A $ 20 felt mat is a joke in precision compared to anything serious - but that will run you min $ 50, usually a lot more. 
 
The most insane are prices for vacuum hold down system turntable - MATS. Essentially, as thin and as resillient material that will still be man enough to keep its dimensions reasonably intact - either teflon or some crazy thin leather. Price range $ 300 - 1500 

 - but, for a reason. Vacuum clamping the record against a hard surface will permanently imbed any dust particlyeinto the vinyl, creating noise, pops and in severe case, skipping - and having a VERY resillient/soft mat between the record and platter will loose too much dynamics. These thin mats are the best solution to the problem - but they are rare, hard to manufacture and therefore expensive.
 
But it is perfectly possible to use IKEA (style) weight/clamp to great sounding turntable. Just proceed and have fun !

 

[Shaffer]

One of the reasons I refer VPI 'tables is due to the reflex clamping system. The spindle is threaded for the clamp and the LP is bonded, for a lack of a better term, over a thin rubber washer to the platter. It really helps with warped pressings. FWIW, The Kuzma Ref I had also worked the same way; though, its washer was aluminum. Clamps that simply claim to dampen the record are not for me; just more weight sitting on the bearing.

 

[analogsurviver]

One of the reasons I refer VPI 'tables is due to the reflex clamping system. The spindle is threaded for the clamp and the LP is bonded, for a lack of a better term, over a thin rubber washer to the platter. It really helps with warped pressings. FWIW, The Kuzma Ref I had also worked the same way; though, its washer was aluminum. Clamps that simply claim to dampen the record are not for me; just more weight sitting on the bearing.

This is why I wrote that TTs with "integrated" clamping system are usually the best. The type of clamping you mentioned originated with the original Oracle turntable in 1979 or so, being taken by others in various versions. Avid works the same :
 

 

VPI 
 

This type of clamp requires unthreaded spindle that is long enough for the clamp to have enough grip surface. The use of the felt for the washer underneath the record is a clever solution; it does conform to the size/shape required otherwise finding just right size/shape/thickness of the washer is required; sometimes different washers have to be used for normal and heavy pressings.
 

Outer ring + weight (or clamp )
 
And there is my darling - vacuum

 
 

active
 

passive

 

[Shaffer]

I really don't have the time to watch the Youtube vids, but I can say from personal experience that the Michell clamp isn't nearly as effective as VPI's. Not even in the same ballpark. I've never had to change washers for different pressings. No idea what you're talking about in a practical sense. BTW, which VPI 'table(s) have you owned? None, I suspect.

I have no idea why I posed here. :rolleyes:

Edit: text

 

[analogsurviver]

I really don't have the time to watch the Youtube vids, but I can say from personal experience that the Michell clamp isn't nearly as effective as VPI's. Not even in the same ballpark.

I have no idea why I posed here.

I have merely included all the options - and Michell type clamp is the only ( albeit less effective ) solution for people with unthreaded record platter spindles - which is the majority. I am trying to cater to all users of turntables, both wealthy and those not so well to do. Regardless where on the globe they are situated - and which equipment is available there at reasonable price. Cost no object - there is always Rockport, Versa, and the like.
 
I find videos more informative than text - or even picture. Which in itself is, as they say, is worth a thousand words.

 

[Shaffer]

I have merely included all the options - and Michell type clamp is the only ( albeit less effective ) solution for people with unthreaded record platter spindles - which is the majority. I am trying to cater to all users of turntables, both wealthy and those not so well to do. Regardless where on the globe they are situated - and which equipment is available there at reasonable price. Cost no object - there is always Rockport, Versa, and the like.

I find videos more informative than text - or even picture. Which in itself is, as they say, is worth a thousand words.

Versa? When was the last time a new one was sold? Like '96?

 

[analogsurviver]

Versa? When was the last time a new one was sold? Like '96?

Something like that.
 
Still mops the floor with most of what came before - or since. 

 

[crimbo912]

Since the turntable can't be close to your speakers, which connection should should be longest in the setup - turntable to preamp or preamp to amp/receiver?