[t1n5l3y]

Hey all,

Last year I bought my first computer with a Logitech Z-2300 speakerset a Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional Series sound card a Creative Fatal1ty 'Gaming' Headset and I'm using Foobar2000 as my media playing software. Lately I'm starting to listen more and more to music and I was wondering what the known short comings are of the stuff I have and maybe some tweaks I can do to make them sound better.

I mostly have rock and metal, with there subgenres on my computer now, but I do listen to trance, house and hardstyle too ones a while. I am almost a total beginner in the field of hardware for music. I did do some research before I bought my stuff, but I was looking more into the other things going into my computer.

Wel thanks for the help so far, I hope my post isnt to vague...

t1n5l3y.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by t1n5l3y /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey all, Last year I bought my first computer with a Logitech Z-2300 speakerset a Creative X-Fi Xtreme Gamer Fatal1ty Professional Series sound card a Creative Fatal1ty 'Gaming' Headset and I'm using Foobar2000 as my media playing software. Lately I'm starting to listen more and more to music and I was wondering what the known short comings are of the stuff I have and maybe some tweaks I can do to make them sound better. I mostly have rock and metal, with there subgenres on my computer now, but I do listen to trance, house and hardstyle too ones a while. I am almost a total beginner in the field of hardware for music. I did do some research before I bought my stuff, but I was looking more into the other things going into my computer. Wel thanks for the help so far, I hope my post isnt to vague... t1n5l3y.

You may eventually want to get the digital-to-analog conversion out of the computer box where there is quite a bit of noise, but first things first -- the big step, that will make the big audible difference, is upgrading your speakers. If you're going to continue to listen on the desktop, look into active (self-amplified) monitors from the likes of M-Audio, Mackie, Yamaha, etc.

If you want to take it all on in one fell swoop, save your lunch money for a pair of ADM 9.1s from AVi. These are top-notch active speakers with an integrated preamp and DAC of the same quality level - an entire system in two small bookshelf-style speakers. They're not cheap at $1850, but they are an entire system, you simply plug your source in and play, and for that, at the quality they deliver, they're a steal.

In the interests of full disclosure, I own a pair, the president of the company has become a friend of mine, and I wrote copy for their landing page. For free. All of that said, they kill.

AVI - a passion for sound engineering

P

 

[t1n5l3y]

As much as I would love to get those, I find it a little bit to expensive hehe... I was mostly looking for some settings I could change, to get more out of the stuff I have now. At the moment I do use the Crystalizer 100%. Got the CMSS-3D effect at 50% and the EQ on rock in the software of my soundcard. Just wondering if anyone got some tips for my equipment.

 

[Logistics]

Well, since you're talking about music listening, ditch all those artificial effects you're using, and don't use the EQ unless there is something wrong with the recording. I'm guilty of using the EQ once in a great while because I'll find a track where the person singing is so lost in the background that I want to bring their voice out, more!

I don't know if there is an ASIO plugin which works with your card, but you can certainly use a Kernel Streaming plugin with whatever software you are using to play music. Most people agree that they can't hear a difference between the two, anyway; they do essentially the same thing. Although, those plugins are mostly useful on XP since it routes it's audio poorly compared to Vista.

In any case, you'll never be able to appreciate the strong and weak points of your setup if you're using the EQ and all those artificial effects. Turn all that stuff off and listen.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Changing settings (or turning them off, which is the right approach) can only take you so far.

If you want to upgrade your audio chain, start with the best recordings possible. You want lossless, but also well-engineered recordings that aren't brickwalled with compression. Next, upgrade your speakers. Even the finest recording on a $10k turntable through a $2k amp into cheap headphones sounds like crap. I've tried it.

There are a number of options for quality speakers. Used and DIY save you the most money - even a few hundred and some sweat equity can get you into the high end.

After that is amplification. It's only critical insofar that you're adequately powering your speakers. If you want to fiddle with various vaccum tubes and exotic topologies for a particular sound, that's available. But you can get great sound from a $20 receiver from the Salvation Army, provided it has enoufh power to drive your speakers.

Some put the source player first. That's a legacy from Linn's marketing 40 odd years ago. At the time, a good Linn turntable was about the best thing going. They're still good, too. But 40 years ago, you couldn't buy a $19 DVD player with distortion below human hearing. Digital has made huge gains and is now cheap and plentiful.

Anyhow, if you're looking for an upgrade, start thinking about refining your music collection and upgrading your speakers. That'll get you 95% of the way there.

 

[Currawong]

If you don't have a lot of money, you could try investing in old hi-fi gear. You can pick up a lot of good gear inexpensively if you know where to look. My old rule of hi-fi was, if you need to EQ it, then it's crap.

 

[iriverdude]

Ditch those Logitechs first, a EQ setting won't improve those speakers. In fact it shows just what they are like, on a good system it sounds better with Crystalizer off, CMS3D off and no EQ.

 

[t1n5l3y]

Sorry for the late reply,

I still want to thank everyone for there input. Currently using no effects at all and I think I'm using an ASIO plugin in Foobar2000 at the moment. In the prefrences at ASIO virtual devices when I want to add something it shows Creative ASIO, so I gues its using it. Also enabled the bit-matched playback in the 'audio creation mode' in Creative's software.

A question, I was just wondering now, but what does my soundcard improve over the onboard sound on my motherboard? When I bought the stuff, I thought that the crystalizer and other things, that are actually effects, would improve everything, but now its like if they just mutate the music in such a way it shouldnt be listened to...

t1n5l3y.

 

[RicHSAD]

What your sound card has over the onboard is better components, which improves the sound quality. Having an actual sound card will also improve performance in games as the audio will be processed by the sound card as opposed to your CPU.

Also, If you prefer what you hear with all the effects on then by all means turn them on. Listen to your music the way you want to, not the way others think you should be doing it.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

I thought that the crystalizer and other things, that are actually effects, would improve everything, but now its like if they just mutate the music in such a way it shouldnt be listened to...

Crystalizer doesn't improve the sound quality, it makes it worse. crystalizer was designed for lossy codecs, but if you just have lossless then leave it disabled.

 

[Deathwish238]

Quote:

Originally Posted by t1n5l3y /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry for the late reply, I still want to thank everyone for there input. Currently using no effects at all and I think I'm using an ASIO plugin in Foobar2000 at the moment. In the prefrences at ASIO virtual devices when I want to add something it shows Creative ASIO, so I gues its using it. Also enabled the bit-matched playback in the 'audio creation mode' in Creative's software. A question, I was just wondering now, but what does my soundcard improve over the onboard sound on my motherboard? When I bought the stuff, I thought that the crystalizer and other things, that are actually effects, would improve everything, but now its like if they just mutate the music in such a way it shouldnt be listened to... t1n5l3y.

A nicer sound card like the Xonar D2 or my E-MU 0404 USB uses higher quality chips and that translates into better sound quality. For me, going from my built in sound card to my E-MU 0404 USB, it sounded like I had been listening to music with a cotton ball in my ear this entire time. Clarity, which I had thought couldn't get better, was suddenly quite noticeably clearer. The bass was deeper yet tighter and more substantial too. It also completely smoothed out my DT990's highs and got rid of any touch of sibilance there once was.

Upgrading my DAC(or source) yielded a much greater difference in sound quality than I had expected. Before I did so, I was really skeptical about spending so much on my source....quite glad I did.



I used to use various effects...but I realized they were just effects. They can't add anything new...just change what's there. I think most people go through the phase before they hit realization. I only EQ to compensate for poor speakers(a friend's car for example...lol).

Sometimes, an effect can sound better at first...but then you'll notice things are missing or wrong when you start to listen critically again. Dolby Headphone for me while sounding good at first...ended up losing clarity in the mids. So I don't use it for music.

The audio world, like the video world, has many "features" or "enhancements" that only hurt the quality of your device. The best imo is the cleanest purest signal possible free of distortion and true to its original source.


Welcome to the World of an Audiophile

 

[GREQ]

I own a set of Z-2300's hooked up to a Creative X-Fi Music Extreme.

In the Creative Panel I just turn off all the effects and leave the EQ flat or off.
For music I use iTunes and use the EQ there as I sometimes use Grados for quiet listening and its much quicker to choose a saved EQ setting in itunes than the creative panel because of the frequent changes.

In iTunes I heavliy EQ these speakers, but there's no solution for these 'cheap' speakers. 500hz-1000Khz needs a significant boost, but remains thin or 'small' sounding, (imagine the comparison of a half-size kids drum kit to a full size one) and the highs 16K needs a HUGE boost, but then just reveals how badly these 'need' tweeters.

Here's my EQ

For volume to money ratio, these are pretty much unbeatable. They can easily fuel a party (of non-audiophiles

)

 

[t1n5l3y]

Hey, thanks for replying.

I tried the EQ a bit, in the Creative Panel, but I don't really like it. Maybe thats because I got used to the other sound more, or I just need to give it more time. But next to that I can't really find a sweet spot in the settings, etc...

Overall I rather do not use the EQ, as of lately, and raise the treble and use the Crystalizer, since I for 95% only have lossy audio files. I like the Crystalizer since, imo, it makes it more detailed and gives it more power, might sound strange that I would need more power, since this 2.1 set has a giant subwoofer, but still. Maybe I got it placed wrong (just under my desk "5 inches" away from me).

 

[GREQ]

As you might have noticed my EQ pic has a huge peak on highest frequency, which is pretty similar to what 'crystalizer' does, except I feel like I'm in control and not the sound card - and for lossy files it pretty much does the job well.

But I know what you mean. The flat EQ sound isn't CRAP, it's just not SUBLIME.

My sub is placed under my desk too, usually touching my feet as it can make quite a nice footstool! But anyway I digress, I usually have the sub turned down to about 10 O'clock (12 being 'normal') because it is just too close and too big for a small desk tiny bedroom scenario.

Most people really hate the z2300 on headfi, but compared to 98% of PC desktop speakers circa £100/$160 or less, they're bloomin' brilliant.