[Omally]

Quote:

Recently I tried TripleFis with Predator and I have to say it was very very impressive on high gain switched. So, as usual it's all about synergy!

 I really wish I could afford a Predator right now... How much has it the increased bass? I find the triple.fi VERY bass shy and I hear RSAs are bass happy amps 

. I haven't got the slightest clue how some describe the TF10 as having a V shaped response, its just treble with recessed mids in my opinion. Hah, sorry, Im really liking the emoticons. 

 

[mesasone]

The TF10 are bass shy?  Maybe you're looking for something like the IE8 or Turbine Pro Gold.  Bass shy is not a word I would use for the TF10s.

 

[High_Q]

^Very true if isolated properly.  Maybe isolation issues if not getting much bass?

 

[jegarn]

Will a clip+ be able to power the TF10's?
 
What would be a good amp with the right synergy? Different price ranges appreciated
 
Thintking about a DIY amp but know nothing about it.

 

[airwax]

My rockboxed clip+ drives the TF10 pretty well. It's what I'm listening to right now while posting this.

 

[Young Spade]

Quote:

 I really wish I could afford a Predator right now... How much has it the increased bass? I find the triple.fi VERY bass shy and I hear RSAs are bass happy amps 

. I haven't got the slightest clue how some describe the TF10 as having a V shaped response, its just treble with recessed mids in my opinion. Hah, sorry, Im really liking the emoticons. 

It's not bass shy at all; how are you finding this? Maybe you're used to bloated or overexaggerated bass..... but that "V" shaped response is very slight and is a slight bump in the treble. 

 
Quote:

The TF10 are bass shy?  Maybe you're looking for something like the IE8 or Turbine Pro Gold.  Bass shy is not a word I would use for the TF10s.

I agree. It's very punchy and although doesn't extend as low as other IEMs it's very good. 

 

[mvw2]

Unfortunately, when you start to get to some of these really good earphones, you can literally destroy their capability by using poor equipment.  If you run a decently compressed audio file through a mediocre playing device and off mediocre wattage, you will very much get a mediocre presentation.  Crappy earphones can't produce a good enough sound to get better with better hardware, but good earphones can and do scale well to the quality of the source material and hardware used.  You pretty much are forced to run high bitrate or lossless recordings, a good DAC, and decent amperage to just get a good enough input to actually see what the earphone is really capable of.
 
The TF10 doesn't need much wattage to run.  It really has very little need.  However, if you run a really weak source, you will always run into problems.  An example is the UM3X.  Off my laptop's line out it lacks the wattage needed to output bass well.  Bass notes are muddled and incoherent at moderate output levels.  It's just a mess of noise.  Once amped, the bass snaps together and everything is clean, separated, and meaningful.  I bring up the UM3X because I don't see nearly as much impact off low wattage from the TF10.
 
The TF10 has a thick and in some perception veiled note.  It is encompassing and enveloping, not open and airy.  This won't change from better amperage.
 
The gains you will see are pretty specific.  A better audio track, a better source, and better amperage will give you key benefits.  These benefits are improved dynamic range and energy of note, better control and separation in low frequencies, improved clarity, detail, separation, stage presentation from the better audio information and player device processing.  The gains can at times be somewhat dramatic.  Some earphones are more sensitive to what you use.  Some are not.  Good examples of earphones that scale well are the UM3X  ( and most likely the W3) and the RE252.  I personally don't feel the TF10 scales a lot.  However, it does have outstanding upper frequency clarity and will scale in the quality of sound along with the quality of the source information.  Because it is bright and detailed, it will be more glaring in showing you bitrate compression and glitches in the audio.  The bass is prominent and with good power and will scale to some degree off the power available.

 

[Young Spade]

^I agree with you 100 percent. Well said man. And I can say the exact same thing when listening to my UM3Xs. Plugging them into the Rx and LO from the T51 it's a whole new phone than just the HO of the DAP. 

 

[High_Q]

Why do I have a feeling that ER4P needs a strong amp?  I compared TF10 and ER4P with my tube amp, and ER4P sounded much better IMO.  With my sony X(DAP, low powered amp), TF10 had more punch, it handles low power well.  The ER4P has lower sensitivity than TF10, volume has to be raised and it doesn't sound as dramatic as the TF10 unamped.  For now, I conclude that ER4P are better sounding phones properly amp.
 
Edit: My conclusion is based on comparing with a tube amplifier, when I tested with portable solid state, it was the opposite, TF10 sounded better.

 

[dizzyraider]

Quote:

Will a clip+ be able to power the TF10's?
 
What would be a good amp with the right synergy? Different price ranges appreciated
 
Thintking about a DIY amp but know nothing about it.

From what I read, Clip+ should have no trouble at all driving TF10s as well as other larger cans as well. I personally run mine with the Mini3 and it really sound fantastic.

 

[radioactive28]

Quote:

Why do I have a feeling that ER4P needs a strong amp? I compared TF10 and ER4P with my tube amp, and ER4P sounded much better IMO. With my sony X(DAP, low powered amp), TF10 had more punch, it handles low power well. The ER4P has lower sensitivity than TF10, volume has to be raised and it doesn't sound as dramatic as the TF10 unamped. For now, I conclude that ER4P are better sounding phones properly amp.

I'm not sure about a strong amp, but running the ER4S direct off my H320, and later running it out of my old Little Dot Micro+, there seems to be some positive effect. Better bass, better clarity (there have been complaints that the ER4S didn't handle busy passages all that well, which I found to be true), and more treble at roughly the same volume. Still trying to convince myself it's not the placebo effect though.

 

[mvw2]

The ER4S does need a good amp.  It was pretty noticeable when I only had my FiiO E5.  I had the ER4S and OK1 at the time, and they both really seemed to want more power.  I now have a Meier 2Move and it's more obvious how much power some of these earphones really want.  The IE8 is another example that will soak up a lot of wattage if you've got it despite being OK off low wattage.
 
I'm not sure if the benefit is there for the ER4P given it's designed for lower wattage applications.  The ER4 simply is not a dynamic earphone.  It is thick and textured, but it is also tame without the explosiveness and shear energy of some other earphones. It might be a case of you trying to get something out of the earphone that simply doesn't exist at the scale you would like to see.
 
I tend to suggest people run a very robust amp despite the cost of them.  A good amp  and good DAC or source player is key to getting the best out of these very good earphones.  It's been forever since I've ever used my E5.  There just isn't a point to it.  I will run everything I buy off my 2Move because it offers the better source and as much wattage as I'll ever need.  It doesn't matter if the specific earphone needs that power or not.  A current good and very versatile amp would be the Practical Devices XM5 and offers a lot of flexibility and some upgradability (done cheaper via digikey).  These kinds of amps aren't cheap, but they'll give you some of the best hardware available for converting the source file into audio.  With cheap earphones, this isn't a big deal.  Cheap stuff in many cases lacks enough fidelity to show enough detail to distinguish the quality of information.  However, with good hardware, the fidelity is there, and this stuff becomes noticeable.  You get to the point where you're doing audible damage to the source information simply from the playing device you use and the amping method you use.
 

 

[Antony6555]

I don't think an amp should make much a difference for either of these phones (triple fi and er-4P), UNLESS the player is too weak (which is unlikely as both these phones are easily driven). You will get some slight coloration, probably. But huge, objective improvement? I highly doubt it.
 
@mvw2
 
The last thing I would call the er-4P is "thick and textured."

 

[High_Q]

Quote:

I'm not sure if the benefit is there for the ER4P given it's designed for lower wattage applications.  The ER4 simply is not a dynamic earphone.  It is thick and textured, but it is also tame without the explosiveness and shear energy of some other earphones. It might be a case of you trying to get something out of the earphone that simply doesn't exist at the scale you would like to see.

Yes, I think so. I was expecting ER4P to have alot of potential, and after doing more listening tests comparing TF10 and ER4P by amping(this time with portable solid state, previous post I tested with tube amp), I discovered that TF10 has the greater potential to benefit when amped.  Amp tightened up the sound coming out of TF10, sound is much more explosive, but the ER4P did not benefit much from amping.  Thats with portable solid state amps(D10, CMOY 9v).  On the other hand, when I amped them with tube, ER4P sounded better(my previous post when I said ER4P sounded better is after comparing with tube amps).  
 
From this comparison, I discovered that Sony X internal amp is still not powerful enough to driver TF10 to its potential.