TRINITY - PHANTOM Series - New thread + WORLDS FIRST PUSH PULL HYBRID IEM!*

[Indigo Bob]

I think the sabre needs the extended filters.  wink wink BOB

 

[Bobtrinity]

I think the sabre needs the extended filters.  wink wink BOB

Wink wink it will come with normal and longer length filters

 

[Bobtrinity]

For the KS Campaign, will there be a combo for Phantom Master and Air?  Or will backers be able to enjoy early bird prices for both?

I hope there will be a balanced cable option for the Phantom Master.

Combos will be on offer.

 

[mike g]

I know the Masters are doing the rounds for reviews but I wondered if there would be any companions on the masters and sabres before the sabre pre-order is over? I have been hanging on the masters but the price of the Sabres will suit my pocket much more. If there are obvious differences in favour of he masters I would still go for them but if it's marginal or the sound signature is a different then might for the for he Sabres.

 

[esm87]

Im curious whether the masters are similar sounding to another IEM

 

[Indigo Bob]

That's the second impressing review on the Sabre....  hm hm hm...  Looking good 

 

[Spaceman24]

Thank you very much for the impressions & comparison to the Atlas, @Brooko ! Hopefully there will be a filter that can target male vocals as well, which is what I was initially expecting from a sort of "mid-focused" iem. Guess we're talking different parts of the mid-range, lol. Also a tad concerned with the bass; I happen to very much like the gold filters on the Atlas for just about every genre I listen too since they have nice bass & clarity.

Can you comment on the mid-bass impact and sub-bass rumble/extension when you get the chance?

 

[raybone0566]

@Brooko,
Could you give a brief comparison to the d2kj?

 

[Brooko]

 
Thank you for the excellent follow-up.
I noted you compared the Sabre earlier to the sound of the A83. Have you heard the A73? I think the A73 is little less biright and little less bass than A83. I love my A73 and wonder if the Sabre would have a comparable sound(mid and highs) with a bit more bass.
The fact the Sabre is less expensive and would have optional all access to BT lanyard would make them untouchable on value and sound quality,
How are microphonics for you on the Sabre and Delta VIi? On the Sabre you wear them cable over the ear?

 
I guess it depends on where you look at the relativities of A73 vs A83.  If you have a look at the first graph below, the A83 and A73 bass actually pretty similar - it's just that the A73 has much less peak through the upper mid-range.  If I matched at 1 kHz, the A73 would have more bass, and be quite a bit thicker through the lower mid-range too.  The second graph is closer to what I hear when I combine the two.  The A73 has always been the bassier earphone - and unfortunately I never really liked it compared to the A83.  That is just preference though.
 
The second graph is probably a good judge next to the Sabre with the A83 - very similar bass, and very similar tracking in the mid-range.  There is a big peak at around 9 kHz on the Sabre that some may find as issue with sibilance (if it is in the recording).  My test for sibilance is Amanda Marshall's "Let It Rain".  It's definitely not hidden - but it doesn't annoy me (my personal annoyance with sibilance is usually peaks around 7 kHz).
 
I have no issues with microphonics - I really like Bob's cables.I always wear over-ear though, and usually have the cable tucked inside a shirt.  I've been walking with them, and had no issues.
 

(above) matching the bass between A73 and A83 and Sabre
 

(above) probably more accurate - matching the mid-range.  A73 is thicker and warmer which is what I hear

 

[Brooko]

  @Brooko, how is the soundstage? In theory, a single driver should have the best soundstage because it has the best shot at phase coherence. To wit, the Flare R2 series. However, unless you spend a fortune on the driver, one ends up with limited frequency response. To wit, the Flare R2 series. Thus, the tantalizing possibility of the push/pull is extended frequency response AND soundstage. Any reality to the fantasy?

 
Just my personal thoughts on it - so take this with a grain of salt.
 
The IEMs I've heard with the biggest sound-stages have usually either one or two traits.  The first is a bit of decay in the mid-bass - the reverb gives the impression of space, unfortunately it also usually muddies the sound - so ultimately a poor indicator. The second - and more prevalent from my experience is a dip in the mid-range usually between about 800 Hz and 1kHz.  This is where most vocal fundamentals are - and as it is often the area we concentrate on, and bass our volume settings on.  A dip in that area, and vocals sit further back - ergo there is more sense of space.
 
It's actually quite easy to show the opposite - narrower soundstage - just look for IEMs with a rise between 900 Hz and about 1.5 kHz - vocals are brought way forward, and the accompanying sound stage seems a lot more intimate.
 
Anyway - how is the Sabre?  Pretty good - slightly above average for an IEM I think.  It's never going to be massive, but it won't be too intimate or constrictive. The dip in the vocal range actually does project slightly more width and depth - and listening to a binaural track takes things out to the periphery of my headstage - which is generally good for an IEM.  Dante's Prayer gives good immersion - some sense of actually sitting in the audience with the applause washing around you - and that has always been a good indicator for me.

 

[Brooko]

  Is the Sabre design finished yet or will it have some branding on its surface?

 
My pics are of the prototype.  The finished model will better connectors, and all the usual branding.
 

  @Brooko what about the sabre cable? do they equal to the atlas cables? do they go easly over the ear?

 
Same as the Atlas (twisted pair / sprung) - and yes, they sit nicely over air.

 

[Brooko]

I know the Masters are doing the rounds for reviews but I wondered if there would be any companions on the masters and sabres before the sabre pre-order is over? I have been hanging on the masters but the price of the Sabres will suit my pocket much more. If there are obvious differences in favour of he masters I would still go for them but if it's marginal or the sound signature is a different then might for the for he Sabres.

 
I heard the first iteration of the Master a few weeks ago.  We gave Bob our feedback (Vince and I) and he was deciding what to tweak. So unfortunately I can't compare - until I have the two side-by-side, and both are in their final stages of development.
 

Im curious whether the masters are similar sounding to another IEM

 
Sorry - can't comment until we hear the final tuning.

 

[Brooko]

Thank you very much for the impressions & comparison to the Atlas, @Brooko ! Hopefully there will be a filter that can target male vocals as well, which is what I was initially expecting from a sort of "mid-focused" iem. Guess we're talking different parts of the mid-range, lol. Also a tad concerned with the bass; I happen to very much like the gold filters on the Atlas for just about every genre I listen too since they have nice bass & clarity.

Can you comment on the mid-bass impact and sub-bass rumble/extension when you get the chance?

 
The thing is, you can tweak the bass using the filters.  I prefer a little leaner - but you can go a lot deeper.  If I switch in the red filters, I get a really good sense of mid-bass impact - it's quite not as visceral as Atlas - but I personally think there is better control and definition. And I I play Lorde's "Royals" with the reds - I'm pretty sure it'll satisfy most bass lovers.  Definitely some pretty deep rumble.   
 

 
Male vocals are never going to be as full or rich as some other IEMs though.  But that is the trade off for having such a gorgeous upper mid-range for female vocals.  The male vocals definitely aren't bad and I thoroughly enjoy rock with the Sabres.

 

[Brooko]

@Brooko,
Could you give a brief comparison to the d2kj?

 
Yep definitely.
 
Both are very clean and clear with good upper end detail, coupled with clean and fast bass. There is a bit more sense of distance with the Sabre, but more balance overall with the DN2000J.  Both have very good upper mid-ranges.  Personally I think the 2000J just sounds a little more effortless in it's overall presentation (supreme clarity), but I think that is countered by the peak around 7 kHz which can give a bit of edge, and a touch of sibilance to those who are sensitive to it.  Sabre has a more bass impact, but also a little thinner for male vocals. Sabre definitely sounds quite a bit more V shaped - and this shows in the graphs as well.
 
As much as I really like the Sabre - its not an improvement over the 2000J - more a slightly different presentation.  Enjoying both during the A/B actually.
 

 

[nealh]

I guess it depends on where you look at the relativities of A73 vs A83.  If you have a look at the first graph below, the A83 and A73 bass actually pretty similar - it's just that the A73 has much less peak through the upper mid-range.  If I matched at 1 kHz, the A73 would have more bass, and be quite a bit thicker through the lower mid-range too.  The second graph is closer to what I hear when I combine the two.  The A73 has always been the bassier earphone - and unfortunately I never really liked it compared to the A83.  That is just preference though.

The second graph is probably a good judge next to the Sabre with the A83 - very similar bass, and very similar tracking in the mid-range.  There is a big peak at around 9 kHz on the Sabre that some may find as issue with sibilance (if it is in the recording).  My test for sibilance is Amanda Marshall's "Let It Rain".  It's definitely not hidden - but it doesn't annoy me (my personal annoyance with sibilance is usually peaks around 7 kHz).

I have no issues with microphonics - I really like Bob's cables.I always wear over-ear though, and usually have the cable tucked inside a shirt.  I've been walking with them, and had no issues.



(above) matching the bass between A73 and A83 and Sabre



(above) probably more accurate - matching the mid-range.  A73 is thicker and warmer which is what I hear

I am no bass head at all. I prefer balance overall. I like the warmer signature to the A73. I have never heard the A83 and from reviews it's a wonderful IEM( maybe a little emphasis on the higher frequencies which may or my not be to my liking)

Thank you very much. Your review has amazing detail. I can have issues with fatigue from the higher frequencies and simbilance, so I try to look at reviews and pick accordingly. I hope I'm using the terms accurately.

FWIW, my sense is I prefer a little warmer quality of sound compared to your preferences BUT you make me think with the right balanced IEM what you prefer maybe the better sound signature causing me to rethink what I really want and need. That's the beauty of the quality of your reviews and comments -so much thought and detail as well as noting your bias making someone like me rethink how I should be listening to music!

Sounds as if Bob has created an amazing product in the Sabre if it's qualities and sound signature can rival the A83 especial at a fraction of the cost and offer the ability to customize the sound with filters. From your comparison I get the feeling the Sabre has the best of A73 and A83 in one product. WOW,

Can't imagine how good the Master 6 could be. Really makes me think it could be the IEM that is the best bang for someone's dollar leaving them with no desire too look for anything else saving money since there would be no need to move up to something better.