Trinity Audio Engineering - What the future holds

[Midgetguy]

I think what Trinity is doing with make -release -change is a horrible business model from a customer's stand point. Leaves a bad taste and does not built confidence in my eyes.
I am disappointed to say the least.

When evaluating any individual product (at least the ones I've tried), I have no problems with anything, but yes, the delivery model overall leaves something to be desired. I'd rather have their next project to be revamping their production/release platform rather than an IEM release/revision. Sort out how to release an IEM properly, then move on to making new IEMs.
 
I still support them though and they need the critical feedback to become a better company. We aim to be critical, because if we only bashed and hated like some others you and I have seen, we're of no help to Trinity or ourselves as customers, right?

 

[TomKorn]

I'm well aware of how young Trinity Audio is; I was also part of the original KS launch . My point is that they could stand to pace their releases better. Felt like it went initial launch, then a new Delta (Delta V2) was released barely a few months after people actually got the first run of IEMs. That iteration (loved by most who bought one it seems) was discontinued only mere months after its own release. So within a single year, TWO iterations of an IEM came and went. By contrast, Campfire Audio started doing their own IEM lineup around the same time Trinity Audio started up and now, almost 2 years later, they've released the Lyra II, a followup to the original Lyra. Almost 2 years before release of a new iteration whereas the Delta blew through 2 iterations AND was discontinued within a single year. And while companies like Campfire Audio release/ship a couple of new models within a couple months, Trinity Audio is releasing and shipping out (by my current count) upwards of 7 different models all at the same time.

You can see why I'm critical of the release and revision schedules. Look at it another way; companies in any hardware sector designate warranties to indicate, in a way, product life span. If there's a one year warranty, they expect it will last longer than that. IEMs tend to have a 1-year warranty at least. The Delta, flagship of the initial launch and loved by most as well as its second iteration, was physically outlasted by its warranty period not because the product itself failed, but because it was discontinued. TWICE! I feel like an IEM's product life cycle should be able to outlast the standard warranty period attached to it unless there was something catastrophically wrong with the design.

I like Trinity Audio and it's great to see the progress they're making, but their strategy is a double-edged sword. New models generate interest, but considering how new models keep coming up as replacements for previous models, you may just end up with people not buying at all because they expect that a newer version will be out within a few months, so what's the point?

I think they just have fun trying stuff out that they think could work well. Sometimes in the process of Prototyping you discover new possibilities and go with it. And what their business model is its just up to them alone. If they will succeed in the long term we will see. I have bought 6 IEMs from them so far. No established brand has managed to do that.

 

[HombreCangrejo]

The think I'd like to see improved, in general, is the accuracy of the information provided. Right now, I have no idea about the driver configuration the Atlas-Delta has. First, it was a 2-way hybrid, 1DD+1BA. Later, the web page stated specifically (and that was confirmed by Bob) a change to a 3-way hybrid. Now, specs and description say it's "Dynamic drivers + wide band BA" and "2nd generation dynamic drivers + our custom tuned balanced armature", respectively. So, more than 1 DD and 1 BA? Something similar applies to Master.

 

[mayank11280]

  The think I'd like to see improved, in general, is the accuracy of the information provided. Right now, I have no idea about the driver configuration the Atlas-Delta has. First, it was a 2-way hybrid, 1DD+1BA. Later, the web page stated specifically (and that was confirmed by Bob) a change to a 3-way hybrid. Now, specs and description say it's "Dynamic drivers + wide band BA" and "2nd generation dynamic drivers + our custom tuned balanced armature", respectively. So, more than 1 DD and 1 BA? Something similar applies to Master.

In my multiple emails to Jake I have constantly asked for the solid information on this but have never received a proper reply. I know they are quite busy with shipping and all but selling products "Subject to change" clause while some items might have been shipped is not what attracts customer. Added to it I ordered the ADs in November, it's mid March now with no accurate specification and shipment details.

 

[Midgetguy]

I think they just have fun trying stuff out that they think could work well. Sometimes in the process of Prototyping you discover new possibilities and go with it. And what their business model is its just up to them alone. If they will succeed in the long term we will see. I have bought 6 IEMs from them so far. No established brand has managed to do that.

I've got 5 IEMs from them myself. But like I said, trying stuff out is all fine and dandy, I don't have any problems with that. Bob can fiddle to his heart's content since he's in charge of design timeline. But from a customer perspective (albeit I'm just one data point out of at least thousands), it's not great to release a new version of a model mere months after the last version debuted. As I had explained, take the Delta as an example: 1 year, 2 iterations, both discontinued. Its new replacement is the Atlas Delta, which is shipping/soon-to-be-shipped. All the changes developed since the original Delta could've just been implemented in the Atlas Delta instead of selling and discontinuing another iteration of the product.
 
I'm talking about product life cycle/span. Even with how fast mobile phones are updated, they still only make major releases once a year. While we like to make the exaggeration regarding technology that you buy something and 2 months later it's been superseded, that's been the literal case with Trinity Audio products thus far. Nothing wrong with developing a product further, but hold off longer on releasing a new version. If the product is good -- and Trinity's products (ones I've tried) have been solid so far -- then it can be left alone for a bit and people will still make purchases. My example with the Lyra shows this; people didn't stop buying after the initial release. Surely Campfire Audio kept working on tuning and refining it, but they didn't release the Lyra II until almost 2 years after.

 

[duracek]

I personally don't understand the logic some people are expressing. Your IEM still sounds just as amazing even if a new model comes out. No one is forced to keep buying the new models. Why would you feel bad? The only thing I can think of as the reason people get annoyed is IEM envy. Like when you see someone with the new version of your car. Envy is a sin unless your best mate has a prettier wife than you.

 

[nealh]

I personally don't understand the logic some people are expressing. Your IEM still sounds just as amazing even if a new model comes out. No one is forced to keep buying the new models. Why would you feel bad? The only thing I can think of as the reason people get annoyed is IEM envy. Like when you see someone with the new version of your car. Envy is a sin unless your best mate has a prettier wife than you.

I hear you and I don't disagree with that.
But it would be sure nice to at least get the product at this point.

The problem with rapid changes and updates, is that the customer starts to feel like they didn't get the final product and they were being used to test something out so that the next better product could be made

Take Master 4 , this is the perfect example of this issue.

 

[Indigo Bob]

I personally don't understand the logic some people are expressing. Your IEM still sounds just as amazing even if a new model comes out. No one is forced to keep buying the new models. Why would you feel bad? The only thing I can think of as the reason people get annoyed is IEM envy. Like when you see someone with the new version of your car. Envy is a sin unless your best mate has a prettier wife than you.

I think it's the idea that they/we want the "complete" version that came out after the one we bought.
 
I agree with you that if the version you have is liked, than that should be good enough, but it does kind of suck when I buy a model and the more improved version soon after comes out..  The version that I would have waited for or preferred to have had...  wishing that they may have had the foresight or tested their products more extensively or had simply chosen to take their time and go all the way with originally.
 
I just think they are winging it and almost in a sense clueless at times as to what is coming next without empirical results from their own failed attempts to live up to their standards or their customers' standards.
 
I am happy about the new cable system, since the cables were a big problem with their setups, and @Jackpot77 did say that the new ergonomics are very good, which basically takes care of the two main aspects I had a problem with with their previous models, besides sound signature preferences...  Don't get me started with the phantom line up.  
 
I am really excited and optimistic that they are reaching stable ground with complete and finished products that don't seem like experimental versions that need tweaking, but I bridle this with the need to see and experience the final results...
 
But I will be disappointed if they come out with an Atlas-delta VII that has something about it that the AD is missing.  If the hunter isn't a final/complete product then I will be very disappointed. 

 

[Midgetguy]

I personally don't understand the logic some people are expressing. Your IEM still sounds just as amazing even if a new model comes out. No one is forced to keep buying the new models. Why would you feel bad? The only thing I can think of as the reason people get annoyed is IEM envy. Like when you see someone with the new version of your car. Envy is a sin unless your best mate has a prettier wife than you.

That's the exact reason

.
 
Although my entire argument has never been about what they release, it's been about how they release. Rapidly changing and discontinuing products doesn't give a good perception of product support. While technically the support is still there, the perception is "we have a newer product and you have the old less capable one that we're distancing ourselves from now, you should be buying the new one instead". Would you not be annoyed if you bought a newly released pre-built computer for $500 and 2 months later that company released a brand new version for $500 again but with all the bells and whistles? You'd feel a bit cheated of your money even if the one you bought is still an entirely competent machine.
 
That's the logic I'm talking about. It has a measure of envy, sure, but it's about a value proposition as well.

 

[duracek]

I have been buying computer components for 30 years so I have been conditioned to accept the fact that by the time my order arrives it will no longer be the best. It used to annoy me but then I realised that there was never a right time to buy. I just had to bite the bullet at some point and live with it. I think the Hunter will be the ultimate for quite some time but the others in the lineup will likely get updates and I sincerely hope they do. Nobody wins if technology stands still. Unless you are one of those classic car freaks .

 

[Indigo Bob]

I have been buying computer components for 30 years so I have been conditioned to accept the fact that by the time my order arrives it will no longer be the best. It used to annoy me but then I realised that there was never a right time to buy. I just had to bite the bullet at some point and live with it. I think the Hunter will be the ultimate for quite some time but the others in the lineup will likely get updates and I sincerely hope they do. Nobody wins if technology stands still. Unless you are one of those classic car freaks

.

That's nice but when it got to the point with what happened with the pm4 where the experimental tweaking started to go downhill, I think it is less a concern based on philosophy or idealogy and more something rooted in the empirical experience and what is actually going on with trinity.
 
But I am still optimistic and maybe more so than you, that the next tweaks to the upcoming IEM's will provide final products that the company can sit back on, not that they won't innovate more, but I will be bold and say that the previous products were less releases along a continuum of improvement and innovation and more just being unfinished products. 
 
The wait sucks, I dislike his manner of communication,  I can't stand his new slogan, his motif, and the pictures of the dude on the webpage (needs to be a chick), and his way of doing business is not what I prefer nor would advise, but I see no indication that BOB has fallen short on these products from what I have gleaned.  I am happy to have optimism at this point, but it has been disappointed in the past by unrefined products that are being refined in their new versions.
 
Despite my frustration I am optimistic.

 

[barondla]

There is a little more going on than too many models coming out too quick. The extra equipment people buy for their IEMs isn't compatible with the next model Trinity. In 2 years we have had how many cable connectors? MMCX, proprietary 2 pin, standard 2 pin, and proprietary modular. Even if people upgrade to the next Trinity, their Bluetooth lanyard, custom cables, balanced cables, and perhaps even the collection of tips don't transfer. 
 
Many people don't care which cable connector Trinity picks. They just want it to stay constant. It makes upgrading a lot easier. 

 

[beemerm635]

   
 
I kind of doubt it. Releasing new models on preorder bases seems to be their business model. New models sell, people get all excited when the new and improved model is being introduced and open their wallets.  
This industry is very hype-driven. If you are not making noise you may not be able to survive. Trinity is not big enough or been around long enough to have the luxury to stay put for 3 years.
I would love to see a smaller lineup with more info and with models being available for a longer period of time, but based on past experience that hasn't been the case. 

I agree but Bob himself has posted saying we "can quote him on it." so whether you're right or not I don't know but I would like to think Bob isn't a liar.

 

[Intensecure]

I'm still a bit confused as to who Sagaris Acoustics are.
A sub-brand of Trinity? A separate company that Bob designs, and presumably builds for?
The price of the Icarus III seems anomalous when it is higher than the seemingly higher spec Master..Is this because it is indeed a different company?
If the build cost is something less than £75, based on the limited offer price, then the £175 retail price seems like a pretty high markup for a direct sell (no distributor, no reseller) product?

 

[duracek]

I'm still a bit confused as to who Sagaris Acoustics are.
A sub-brand of Trinity? A separate company that Bob designs, and presumably builds for?
The price of the Icarus III seems anomalous when it is higher than the seemingly higher spec Master..Is this because it is indeed a different company?
If the build cost is something less than £75, based on the limited offer price, then the £175 retail price seems like a pretty high markup for a direct sell (no distributor, no reseller) product?

The Icarus III is a totally different IEM, the DD is 11mm vs the Master's Dual 7mm. In addition, it seems that the BA could be a different unit as it is described as Wideband. 
 
As for the markup, there are probably costs that Trinity are writing off here to appease the savage crowd, like R&D, operating costs, and likely profit.