[mndless]

For one thing, the addition of the Sonion EST into an IEM does not "automatically grade it to A grade". I've gone into tirades on the flaws of the Sonion EST drivers quite a bit (one of which being that it should be renamed "electrets" instead of misrepresenting it as actual electrostatics, the rest I won't go into), and in general I find that they are extremely finicky drivers to implement and not many manufacturers have been successful.

Much like the misconception that more drivers = better sound, the Sonion EST is not a magic "good sound" button. In many cases, due to poor implementation and engineering, the opposite is more commonly observed. Regardless, even if the Sonion EST drivers are inherently superior tweeters (again, they're not), my rankings are stringent and I can't just be handing out A and S grades to every IEM I come across.

On that point I can definitely agree. Those things have some fierce harmonics from what I can tell about the graphs and, without tuning them with filters, they are challenging to implement well. I'm still curious how Kinera managed it so well in the NanNa series, since it doesn't appear that they use the typical sound tube fabric filters. I would be interested to see what happens if you were to use one of the 4EST drivers from them, but use different value filters to dampen the peaks from their harmonics and also push around those peaks to help smooth the treble response. Would the discrepancy between the physical airflow impedance detrimentally impact transience in the treble? It seems like it should, logically speaking, but I don't have any hands-on experience with that kind of audio tuning, so I can't say for sure what it would actually do.

 

[Barusu Lamperouge]

You are right. The so called grading for the TRi Starlight is, to me, silly. It is simply way better than C, C- and B. The Starshine which I am listening to right now is closer though.

I don't have any so can't comment on it but at times I do find his ratings very random.

He seems to have a significantly better tolerance for treble and a preference for reference tuning over house tuning. I like bass, so the bass being higher than the Harmon 2019 curve is no detriment to me. I am just torn over whether or not the Starlight is something I'm willing to invest that much into, given that there have been numberous people saying that it was bright. I may set my sights on the **** ST7, which is essentially the same, but tuned differently, since it has slightly more recessed treble and even more bass than the Starlight from all of the comparison graphs I've been able to find. I will give Shuoer, ****, and TRI all the credit for choosing that shell design, as it is one of, if not the most compact design I've come across for tribrids. Shuoer just kept stepping it up by adding more BA drivers for their Conductor. I think the EJ09 is slightly larger.

Considering you are sensitive to treble, if the general consensus states that they're bright than my suggestion would be to avoid them. Ideally, you should check if you can demo it somewhere that would solve your dilemma.

Agree, he has habit to degrade something that hits off from his favorite curve, “even for technicalities” which supposed to be tonality scope. B score for tech with Sonion EST is kinda questionable subjective grading, technically resolving capability should be enough to automatically grade it to A grade unless god mind blowing full power dominating bass overshadowed those, which does not seem like the case for the pairs.

Tonality wise it’s very subjective so we can understand the fluctuations but tech B?

Probably, but we have seen that many times companies have produced a piece of turd despite using TOTL hardware so I'd give him some benefit of doubt. He has his own biases to which he is very much entitled to. All of us have some pet peeves or the others. But the thing is many just mindlessly follow his word. And that's not his problem one bit but of those who are being sheeps. His ideal curve is good theoretically but very bland and boring in my view. Unless one listens to a certain type of music it's very difficult to get musicality with that curve. Something or the other needs to boosted or toned down to achieve the right balance. But hey, I'm not the one with golden ears so what would I know how that curve sounds anyways, right?

 

[RikudouGoku]

Differences in the non Pro and new Pro model?

This is all we know:

from a facebook comment

 

[TheVortex]

This is all we know:

from a facebook comment

So a smaller shell? I presume the sound might change and is the i3 a big earphone anyway?

Sidenote : My GT12 is now in the country and I hope they are good as it's a big gamble.

 

[RikudouGoku]

So a smaller shell? I presume the sound might change and is the i3 a big earphone anyway?

Sidenote : My GT12 is now in the country and I hope they are good as it's a big gamble.

Yeah smaller shell it seems. I do believe there will be changes in the sound due to that, lets hope it isnt a downgrade though. And yes, I believe that the size is huge on the original, I believe the pictures on it made it look bigger than the Blessing 2 which is already a very big iem (too big for me).

Here is a pic vs the Z1R:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tri...ight-new-starsea.921113/page-38#post-15841632

Praying the GT12 is good as well, should be a good sign to what I will get. (my package got delayed so its still a long time until I get mine..)

 

[mndless]

Probably, but we have seen that many times companies have produced a piece of turd despite using TOTL hardware so I'd give him some benefit of doubt. He has his own biases to which he is very much entitled to. All of us have some pet peeves or the others. But the thing is many just mindlessly follow his word. And that's not his problem one bit but of those who are being sheeps. His ideal curve is good theoretically but very bland and boring in my view. Unless one listens to a certain type of music it's very difficult to get musicality with that curve. Something or the other needs to boosted or toned down to achieve the right balance. But hey, I'm not the one with golden ears so what would I know how that curve sounds anyways, right?

Absolutely. It is easier to make great earphones when you start with good hardware, but as has been shown before, if you don't do things properly (like omitting a crossover and relying on the impedance curves of your driver's to kinda cross things over) then your product will just suck and drag down your brand image.

And everyone has different ears. The various reference curves are typically lauded because of how safe they are in terms of broad appeal. The pure Harmon 2019 curve produces a nice sounding earphone with adequate bass to give a nice rumble, mids that don't shout, and treble that's safe even for the treble sensitive. The problem is that everyone's ears are different. There's the bass head and treble head communities that you could tune for, but when you deviate too far, you typically start making sacrifices to the coherency of the sound signature.

 

[mndless]

Yeah smaller shell it seems. I do believe there will be changes in the sound due to that, lets hope it isnt a downgrade though. And yes, I believe that the size is huge on the original, I believe the pictures on it made it look bigger than the Blessing 2 which is already a very big iem (too big for me).

Here is a pic vs the Z1R:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tri...ight-new-starsea.921113/page-38#post-15841632

Praying the GT12 is good as well, should be a good sign to what I will get. (my package got delayed so its still a long time until I get mine..)

Yeah, those look kinda big to jam into your ears with the length of that nozzle. I wish I knew more about how to figure out the necessary cavity size for dynamic and planar drivers in earphones, since a lot of the DD implementations don't seem to bother with any extra tuning through sound chamber size and porting. If it doesn't really require much space, then it should be readily feasible to 3D print an insert to package a 10mm planar and a 10mm DD into a very compact package. I'd love to see them use a couple different BAs for the mid-highs and high to ultra-highs frequency, since that would give them more leeway for filtering and crossover tuning, especially since the treble is such an easy frequency range to hear flaws in the tuning. The cool thing about a lot of the planar drivers I've found on AliExpress is just how dead flat their frequency response graph is right to the point where you'd be looking to cross over to a dedicated HF driver anyway. Add a DD with a graph that sloped down from 20Hz and you've got a good foundation.

 

[Barusu Lamperouge]

Absolutely. It is easier to make great earphones when you start with good hardware, but as has been shown before, if you don't do things properly (like omitting a crossover and relying on the impedance curves of your driver's to kinda cross things over) then your product will just suck and drag down your brand image.

And everyone has different ears. The various reference curves are typically lauded because of how safe they are in terms of broad appeal. The pure Harmon 2019 curve produces a nice sounding earphone with adequate bass to give a nice rumble, mids that don't shout, and treble that's safe even for the treble sensitive. The problem is that everyone's ears are different. There's the bass head and treble head communities that you could tune for, but when you deviate too far, you typically start making sacrifices to the coherency of the sound signature.

Totally in agreement with you. Harman 2019 curve is one my preferred curves as well. At times, I just boost mids by a dB or so but that depends on the IEM and the kind of fit/seal I get. Harman curve is widely acceptable because it caters to almost 80% of the populace that listen to music. People like us who are so finicky about sound are in minority.

If all of us hear the same then wherein the fun lies? We should listen to everyone but decide always basis what suits us. I personally don't like to blame anyone for the purchases I make because despite all the reviews it was my own choice to spend monies on them. Not anyone's fault if they sound turd to me, ain't it?

 

[mndless]

Totally in agreement with you. Harman 2019 curve is one my preferred curves as well. At times, I just boost mids by a dB or so but that depends on the IEM and the kind of fit/seal I get. Harman curve is widely acceptable because it caters to almost 80% of the populace that listen to music. People like us who are so finicky about sound are in minority.

If all of us hear the same then wherein the fun lies? We should listen to everyone but decide always basis what suits us. I personally don't like to blame anyone for the purchases I make because despite all the reviews it was my own choice to spend monies on them. Not anyone's fault if they sound turd to me, ain't it?

This is why IEMs with tunable crossover switches are awesome! I wish more manufacturers were interested in releasing a "pro" version of their IEMs with such a feature. It's totally understandable that you may not wish to push the extra cost onto the general consumer populace, but it would definitely be appreciated for crazy people like us who love to continuously tinker with their toys. Tansio Mirai, Magaosi, LZ, TRI and a handful of others have IEMs with varying numbers and configurations of tuning switches, and I thoroughly appreciate that level of customization.

 

[Barusu Lamperouge]

This is why IEMs with tunable crossover switches are awesome! I wish more manufacturers were interested in releasing a "pro" version of their IEMs with such a feature. It's totally understandable that you may not wish to push the extra cost onto the general consumer populace, but it would definitely be appreciated for crazy people like us who love to continuously tinker with their toys. Tansio Mirai, Magaosi, LZ, TRI and a handful of others have IEMs with varying numbers and configurations of tuning switches, and I thoroughly appreciate that level of customization.

Absolutely. Tuning nozzles or switches are the way forward. Properly done Modular IEMs are definitely the future.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

For one thing, the addition of the Sonion EST into an IEM does not "automatically grade it to A grade". I've gone into tirades on the flaws of the Sonion EST drivers quite a bit (one of which being that it should be renamed "electrets" instead of misrepresenting it as actual electrostatics, the rest I won't go into), and in general I find that they are extremely finicky drivers to implement and not many manufacturers have been successful.

Much like the misconception that more drivers = better sound, the Sonion EST is not a magic "good sound" button. In many cases, due to poor implementation and engineering, the opposite is more commonly observed. Regardless, even if the Sonion EST drivers are inherently superior tweeters (again, they're not), my rankings are stringent and I can't just be handing out A and S grades to every IEM I come across.

Interesting comment,
Agree:
-more drivers does not guarantee better
-Sonion EST is electret type as a fair presentation and has hard to tweak inheritance dips/peaks. The only very few managed to tune it right seemed Thieaudio.
Still not convinced:
-I believe it is my first time seeing those Sonion EST charged falls to B grade, besides DUNU EST112? More analytical comments are always appreciated

TRI’s Starsea got great laid back and detail retrieving tuning like VX, so it’s kinda surprise to see her big sisters get lukewarm impression, starshine/lights measurements looks very different so, maybe / maybe not.

P.S.
Dusk tuning is one of best Great job especially for shifting pinna gain to 3khz. Hope you find an opportunity to tune one of Thieaudio’s. Their bass dynamic driver still needs improvement, so when they come up with something like LCP or pure-beryllium bass driver, I hope you get involved in tuning the tribrids.

 

[H T T]

Interesting comment,
Agree:
-more drivers does not guarantee better
-Sonion EST is electret type as a fair presentation and has hard to tweak inheritance dips/peaks. The only very few managed to tune it right seemed Thieaudio.
Still not convinced:
-I believe it is my first time seeing those Sonion EST charged falls to B grade, besides DUNU EST112? More analytical comments are always appreciated

TRI’s Starsea got great laid back and detail retrieving tuning like VX, so it’s kinda surprise to see her big sisters get lukewarm impression, starshine/lights measurements looks very different so, maybe / maybe not.

P.S.
Dusk tuning is one of best Great job especially for shifting pinna gain to 3khz. Hope you find an opportunity to tune one of Thieaudio’s. Their bass dynamic driver still needs improvement, so when they come up with something like LCP or pure-beryllium bass driver, I hope you get involved in tuning the tribrids.

Outside of the fiiO FD1, I have yet to hear a beryllium-based DD/bass driver I have ever liked in the long term. LCP drivers have not overly impressed me either. I am quite pleased with the drivers in the ThieAudio Legacy 5 (10 mm Nano-Membrane Dynamic Driver) and Penon Globe (graphite fiber silk paper dome 10mm driver). Maybe I think this way because I am not a fan of metal and/or like emphasized mid-bass "slam" where the "benefits" of LCP and Be might come to the fore?

 

[mndless]

Absolutely. Tuning nozzles or switches are the way forward. Properly done Modular IEMs are definitely the future.

I am 110% down for as many conceivable tuning options as manufacturers are willing to give me. Switches for the crossover network, tuning nozzles with different internal diameters, replaceable tuning filters, etc. But if I'm only getting one from the manufacturer, I'd rather have the switches, since I can't do anything about that myself, whereas I can peel off the filter to replace it or pack the nozzle with foam or add a liner to the nozzle to reduce the internal diameter.

 

[mndless]

Outside of the fiiO FD1, I have yet to hear a beryllium-based DD/bass driver I have ever liked in the long term. LCP drivers have not overly impressed me either. I am quite pleased with the drivers in the ThieAudio Legacy 5 (10 mm Nano-Membrane Dynamic Driver) and Penon Globe (graphite fiber silk paper dome 10mm driver). Maybe I think this way because I am not a fan of metal and/or like emphasized mid-bass "slam" where the "benefits" of LCP and Be might come to the fore?

My opinion regarding dynamic drivers is pretty much the same as my opinion for woofers and some tweeters in larger audio equipment: metal drivers are acceptable for bass and mid-bass, but once you reach the high frequency driver, with the exception of pure beryllium foil dome tweeters, I would much prefer silk or some other thin biologically derived dome material. They provide a softer, warmer sound with a more ethereal high end compared to metal dome tweeters, which can often sound harsh. Maybe I'll spend some time and money at some point to pull apart some cheap IEMs and replace their driver with various DD from AliExpress, since they have a surprisingly wide selection of earphone drivers. They've got some wool biological drivers in the 13-15mm range that are intriguing.

 

[AmericanSpirit]

Outside of the fiiO FD1, I have yet to hear a beryllium-based DD/bass driver I have ever liked in the long term. LCP drivers have not overly impressed me either. I am quite pleased with the drivers in the ThieAudio Legacy 5 (10 mm Nano-Membrane Dynamic Driver) and Penon Globe (graphite fiber silk paper dome 10mm driver). Maybe I think this way because I am not a fan of metal and/or like emphasized mid-bass "slam" where the "benefits" of LCP and Be might come to the fore?

Yea that might be the case, mid bass impacts is something flavor dependent, I’m more inclined toward western profile, the clairvoyance tuning compared to Eastern profile of Monarch /Yume tuning for bass floor arrangement. Dusk is something in between and well tuning balance IMO.