[number1sixerfan]

@vonBaron I will not dispute this however the amp has nothing to do with overall design and comfort of the headphone during listening. The idea of cans "floating" on top of your head is complete disaster for me. BTW: I have been listening with Sonnet Morpheus as DAC and I think I understand why you liked it. Very close to my WaveLight, just a bit different tuning so it comes down as matter of taste which one select in terms of SQ.

Your findings weren't out of the usual at all. The TC is really unique and does better by genres that really can use very strong bass response. FWIW, the SC cable does really improve things a bit in ways that benefit those two genres, although it's definitely a bit pricey. Only reason I didn't go that route and keep them. As far as fit goes, at least for me, bending the frame and the new headband changed everything, although they'll never be as comfortable as the Susvara, Expanse, etc.

 

[alekc]

Your findings weren't out of the usual at all. The TC is really unique and does better by genres that really can use very strong bass response. FWIW, the SC cable does really improve things a bit in ways that benefit those two genres, although it's definitely a bit pricey. Only reason I didn't go that route and keep them. As far as fit goes, at least for me, bending the frame and the new headband changed everything, although they'll never be as comfortable as the Susvara, Expanse, etc.

@number1sixerfan thank you for your comment, I'm coming from AudioQuest NightOwls and NightHawks camp listening at the moment using Meze Empys (another very comfortable cans) and even my best open cans: T+A Solitaire P-SE are better fitted and a lot more comfortable so I maybe soiled in that area indeed. You are right that Susvaras are also very comfortable. Even Audeze started to make lighter headphones: MM-500 is great example here.

 

[psy472]

There are some here and there but the last time a ZMF was mentioned, Zach swooped down from the heavens and wrote a multi-paragraph rebuttal amounting to "most people like it and you must be doing something wrong". No one wants that kind of heat on them from a manufacturer over a negative impression.

I believe I saw that post, but wasn’t it about the high cost of the ZMF cans rather than the sound itself?

 

[TheRunningIr0n]

I believe I saw that post, but wasn’t it about the high cost of the ZMF cans rather than the sound itself?

I'm looking through the pages and I'm certain that there was a much larger post addressing price/performance criticisms that has either been edited or deleted altogether. In either case, my description appears to be obsolete now. Stealth moderation makes it tricky to know unless you're keeping up with the forum day to day.

Well, no one came after me when I said ZMF has the worst pad-swapping system in the world.

They use a pretty standard... "tongue and groove"(?) pad system but I can definitely see it causing problems for people depending on their technique and the size of their hands. I had to cover one of the cups in a padded cloth to prevent it from smacking against the other cup while stretching the pad around the perimeter. Most aftermarket pads use this system so it's good for pad rolling and it's a whole lot better than glue.

What is less than ideal to me is the expectation of people spending hundreds of dollars on alternative pad sets with nothing but subjective impressions to go off of. It would be great if the pad section of the ZMF website contained an embedded interactive graph system similar to squiglink with every combination of headphone model + pad so that you can see what it does before purchase. I wouldn't be surprised if they're working on it right now.

 

[ThanatosVI]

ZMF always sounds great and are tuned safely

The tuning is not really the issue for Abyss either. Most complains including mine are about the weird fit and comfort, the horrible stock cable and the whole experience apart from the sound.

If they manage to get the 1266 sound into a headphone of Meze build and comfort levels, they could have a real winner.

ZMF is a safe tuning and great on comfort as well. They don't excell imo, but certainly don't dissappoint either.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

tl;dr: From an objective standpoint, the only merits of the HE1000se are a slightly improved frequency response in regard to the 4.7 kHz resonance (for my ears), probably better channel matching and hence image coherence on average, up to 2 dB louder playback for the same balanced volume setting, a nicer build and looks, and a lighter clamping force. Otherwise, distortion performance is disappointingly variable.

2024-04-04 - Disclaimer: All of my REW distortion measurements posted between November 2023 (the acquisition of my MOTU M2 and the start of my "100 dB SPL" calibration methodology) and April 2024 are per my latest SPL calibration methodology and due to the cheap 11-month-old HT-80A SPL meter having actually been quite off at least after all that time are around 4 dB too high, so "100 dB SPL" would be closer to 96 dB SPL if my new SPL calibrator is to be trusted.

Almost a year ago, the Arya Stealth was my first foray into high-end audio, whereby within a month, I found myself reading HE1000se reviews and itching for the next iteration. Due to lack of the ability to locally audition such, I ended up acquiring the measurably exceptional Meze Elite Tungsten that takes EQ like a champ. My eyes were then set on the Stax SR-X9000 which I eventually managed to experience and measure (I can't share the graphs), my deciding that it wasn't for me and saving myself the cost of pairing that with a Mjolnir Audio Carbon CC (ultra-low distortion, particularly in the bass, is a lot harder to achieve with estat amps). I finally decided to jump on the recent discounting of the HE1000se to $2k USD which is an absolute steal compared to the original $3.5k USD.

My original findings can be found in https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-he1000-se.886228/page-320 and the next few pages. From there, you will see my personal subjective experience, whereby after volume-matching, the HE1000se and Arya Stealth are already of sufficiently similar frequency response to afford no audible benefit to me beyond the subjective effects of improved comfort (they also feel equally open despite the HE1000se having less magnet obstructions). While I had initially thought I had measured an improved distortion performance over the Arya for the left driver, I later came to learn that the real situation was that HiFiMan drivers came come in a variety of distortion profiles, its having so happened that my HE1000se's left driver had the same distortion performance as my Arya Stealth's right driver.

Unfortunately, as seen at the end of https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-he1000-se.886228/page-321#post-17867993 (post #4,815), I while changing pads (a lot of times since I was measuring all four Dekoni pairs to optimize FR, distortion, and CSD performance) pulled off a Joshua Valour in damaging the driver at the lower part, my having only noticed this after it showed up in distortion measurements like below (all the below were taken using the stock pads and a 98 to 100 dB reference):

Figure 1: HiFiMan HE1000se right driver distortion measurement after accidental fingernail puncture to the lower right of the diaphragm. The great increase in the proportion of higher-order harmonic distortion in certain regions is telling of the damage, this being in contrast to the nominal measurements where the distortion is mainly second and third order with the higher-order harmonic traces tracking the measurement's noise floor.

Figure 2: HiFiMan HE1000se right driver distortion measurement prior to the damage.

Figure 3: HiFiMan HE1000se left driver distortion. This is what consider to be the nominal distortion profile, its being the best I've measured out of the three HE1000se units that have come into my possession and my Arya Stealth.

Compare this to my Meze Elite with hybrid pads EQed to those levels while playing 1 or 2 dB louder:

Figure 4: Meze Elite right driver distortion with my personal "V3 PEQ".

As such, I had to pay for a replacement (less than half the current MSRP) per this situation not being covered under warranty and their not offering driver repairs or any means to replace just one driver, my expecting to just start over and be more careful with pad removal, my devising protective guards like below:

Figure 5: HiFiMan "egg" driver protection for pad removal.

And so the replacement unit arrived, and lo and behold, I got worse distortion performance:

Figure 6: HiFiMan HE1000se second unit right driver distortion. This sine sweep was the very first signal I had played through this unit. No amount of "burn-in" would fix this. There was clearly a QC issue in how the diaphragm was installed or tensioned or something as I could see no defects on the diaphragm other than the likely normal wrinkles on some of the traces, yet the distortion graph shows marked increases in higher-order harmonic distortion comparable to those of a damaged driver.

Figure 7: HiFiMan HE1000se second unit left driver distortion.

I was quite unhappy with this result. Sure, music sounded fine, but I paid for excellence, not something potentially worse in distortion than the Edition XS. With this, I was able to make a case for a warranty claim and would have a third unit on its way to me. Thank goodness that NetParcel had excellent shipping rates for the return of the first two units. And lo and behold...

Figure 8: HiFiMan HE1000se third unit right driver distortion. Basically the same distortion issues as in the previous unit.

Figure 9: HiFiMan HE1000se third unit left driver distortion. I had told myself to be content if at least one driver were good (this one still isn't as good as on my very first HE1000se, though there is a chance that my between-session volume calibration had drifted), but I didn't think the not-good driver would be as bad as on the previous unit.

So as you can see, HiFiMan QC seems to not account for the drivers' distortion performance (or considers this much variation under a threshold acceptable), or I at least strongly doubt these measurements will be much different after 150 hours of "burn-in". At least from the upper light brown traces in the preceding measurements for these three units, one can see that HiFiMan did a fine job with driver matching and frequency response consistency (discounting variations caused by physiological asymmetry per my use of in-ear mics; here, the left driver was measured with the mic that happened to have bass roll-off). The first unit's "PASS" stamp is dated in August of 2023 while the second and third units are dated in November of 2023. I do not know how earlier units would measure.

Sure, this distortion may only be audible when listening to the sine sweep with in-ear mics inserted, but for one who separates objective performance from the subjective "lore" around a headphone's sound, we should expect more appreciable objective gains and quality control from such a price difference.

 

[psy472]

tl;dr: From an objective standpoint, the only merits of the HE1000se are a slightly improved frequency response in regard to the 4.7 kHz resonance (for my ears), probably better channel matching and hence image coherence on average, up to 2 dB louder playback for the same balanced volume setting, a nicer build and looks, and a lighter clamping force. Otherwise, distortion performance is disappointingly variable.

Almost a year ago, the Arya Stealth was my first foray into high-end audio, whereby within a month, I found myself reading HE1000se reviews and itching for the next iteration. Due to lack of the ability to locally audition such, I ended up acquiring the measurably exceptional Meze Elite Tungsten that takes EQ like a champ. My eyes were then set on the Stax SR-X9000 which I eventually managed to experience and measure (I can't share the graphs), my deciding that it wasn't for me and saving myself the cost of pairing that with a Mjolnir Audio Carbon CC (ultra-low distortion, particularly in the bass, is a lot harder to achieve with estat amps). I finally decided to jump on the recent discounting of the HE1000se to $2k USD which is an absolute steal compared to the original $3.5k USD.

My original findings can be found in https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-he1000-se.886228/page-320 and the next few pages. From there, you will see my personal subjective experience, whereby after volume-matching, the HE1000se and Arya Stealth are already of sufficiently similar frequency response to afford no audible benefit to me beyond the subjective effects of improved comfort (they also feel equally open despite the HE1000se having less magnet obstructions). While I had initially thought I had measured an improved distortion performance over the Arya for the left driver, I later came to learn that the real situation was that HiFiMan drivers came come in a variety of distortion profiles, its having so happened that my HE1000se's left driver had the same distortion performance as my Arya Stealth's right driver.

Unfortunately, as seen at the end of https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-he1000-se.886228/page-321#post-17867993 (post #4,815), I while changing pads (a lot of times since I was measuring all four Dekoni pairs to optimize FR, distortion, and CSD performance) pulled off a Joshua Valour in damaging the driver at the lower part, my having only noticed this after it showed up in distortion measurements like below (all the below were taken using the stock pads):


Figure 1: HiFiMan HE1000se right driver distortion measurement after accidental fingernail puncture to the lower right of the diaphragm. The great increase in the proportion of higher-order harmonic distortion in certain regions is telling of the damage, this being in contrast to the nominal measurements where the distortion is mainly second and third order with the higher-order harmonic traces tracking the measurement's noise floor.


Figure 2: HiFiMan HE1000se right driver distortion measurement prior to the damage.


Figure 3: HiFiMan HE1000se left driver distortion. This is what consider to be the nominal distortion profile, its being the best I've measured out of the three HE1000se units that have come into my possession and my Arya Stealth.

Compare this to my Meze Elite with hybrid pads EQed to those levels while playing 1 or 2 dB louder:


Figure 4: Meze Elite right driver distortion with my personal "V3 PEQ".

As such, I had to pay for a replacement (less than half the current MSRP) per this situation not being covered under warranty and their not offering driver repairs or any means to replace just one driver, my expecting to just start over and be more careful with pad removal, my devising protective guards like below:



Figure 5: HiFiMan "egg" driver protection for pad removal.

And so the replacement unit arrived, and lo and behold, I got worse distortion performance:


Figure 6: HiFiMan HE1000se second unit right driver distortion. This sine sweep was the very first signal I had played through this unit. No amount of "burn-in" would fix this. There was clearly a QC issue in how the diaphragm was installed or tensioned or something as I could see no defects on the diaphragm other than the likely normal wrinkles on some of the traces, yet the distortion graph shows marked increases in higher-order harmonic distortion comparable to those of a damaged driver.


Figure 7: HiFiMan HE1000se second unit left driver distortion.

I was quite unhappy with this result. Sure, music sounded fine, but I paid for excellence, not something potentially worse in distortion than the Edition XS. With this, I was able to make a case for a warranty claim and would have a third unit on its way to me. Thank goodness that NetParcel had excellent shipping rates for the return of the first two units. And lo and behold...


Figure 8: HiFiMan HE1000se third unit right driver distortion. Basically the same distortion issues as in the previous unit.


Figure 9: HiFiMan HE1000se third unit left driver distortion. I had told myself to be content if at least one driver were good (this one still isn't as good as on my very first HE1000se, though there is a chance that my between-session volume calibration had drifted), but I didn't think the not-good driver would be as bad as on the previous unit.

So as you can see, HiFiMan QC seems to not account for the drivers' distortion performance (or considers this much variation under a threshold acceptable), or I at least strongly doubt these measurements will be much different after 150 hours of "burn-in". At least from the upper light brown traces in the preceding measurements for these three units, one can see that HiFiMan did a fine job with driver matching and frequency response consistency (discounting variations caused by physiological asymmetry per my use of in-ear mics; here, the left driver was measured with the mic that happened to have bass roll-off). The first unit's "PASS" stamp is dated in August of 2023 while the second and third units are dated in November of 2023. I do not know how earlier units would measure.

Sure, this distortion may only be audible when listening to the sine sweep with in-ear mics inserted, but for one who separates objective performance from the subjective "lore" around a headphone's sound, we should expect more appreciable objective gains and quality control from such a price difference.

It’s a crap shoot with QC when buying HiFiman. I won’t buy anything from them unless it’s close to half off. Even then I get nervous.

 

[Empyah]

tl;dr: From an objective standpoint, the only merits of the HE1000se are a slightly improved frequency response in regard to the 4.7 kHz resonance (for my ears), probably better channel matching and hence image coherence on average, up to 2 dB louder playback for the same balanced volume setting, a nicer build and looks, and a lighter clamping force. Otherwise, distortion performance is disappointingly variable.

Almost a year ago, the Arya Stealth was my first foray into high-end audio, whereby within a month, I found myself reading HE1000se reviews and itching for the next iteration. Due to lack of the ability to locally audition such, I ended up acquiring the measurably exceptional Meze Elite Tungsten that takes EQ like a champ. My eyes were then set on the Stax SR-X9000 which I eventually managed to experience and measure (I can't share the graphs), my deciding that it wasn't for me and saving myself the cost of pairing that with a Mjolnir Audio Carbon CC (ultra-low distortion, particularly in the bass, is a lot harder to achieve with estat amps). I finally decided to jump on the recent discounting of the HE1000se to $2k USD which is an absolute steal compared to the original $3.5k USD.

My original findings can be found in https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-he1000-se.886228/page-320 and the next few pages. From there, you will see my personal subjective experience, whereby after volume-matching, the HE1000se and Arya Stealth are already of sufficiently similar frequency response to afford no audible benefit to me beyond the subjective effects of improved comfort (they also feel equally open despite the HE1000se having less magnet obstructions). While I had initially thought I had measured an improved distortion performance over the Arya for the left driver, I later came to learn that the real situation was that HiFiMan drivers came come in a variety of distortion profiles, its having so happened that my HE1000se's left driver had the same distortion performance as my Arya Stealth's right driver.

Unfortunately, as seen at the end of https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hifiman-he1000-se.886228/page-321#post-17867993 (post #4,815), I while changing pads (a lot of times since I was measuring all four Dekoni pairs to optimize FR, distortion, and CSD performance) pulled off a Joshua Valour in damaging the driver at the lower part, my having only noticed this after it showed up in distortion measurements like below (all the below were taken using the stock pads):


Figure 1: HiFiMan HE1000se right driver distortion measurement after accidental fingernail puncture to the lower right of the diaphragm. The great increase in the proportion of higher-order harmonic distortion in certain regions is telling of the damage, this being in contrast to the nominal measurements where the distortion is mainly second and third order with the higher-order harmonic traces tracking the measurement's noise floor.


Figure 2: HiFiMan HE1000se right driver distortion measurement prior to the damage.


Figure 3: HiFiMan HE1000se left driver distortion. This is what consider to be the nominal distortion profile, its being the best I've measured out of the three HE1000se units that have come into my possession and my Arya Stealth.

Compare this to my Meze Elite with hybrid pads EQed to those levels while playing 1 or 2 dB louder:


Figure 4: Meze Elite right driver distortion with my personal "V3 PEQ".

As such, I had to pay for a replacement (less than half the current MSRP) per this situation not being covered under warranty and their not offering driver repairs or any means to replace just one driver, my expecting to just start over and be more careful with pad removal, my devising protective guards like below:



Figure 5: HiFiMan "egg" driver protection for pad removal.

And so the replacement unit arrived, and lo and behold, I got worse distortion performance:


Figure 6: HiFiMan HE1000se second unit right driver distortion. This sine sweep was the very first signal I had played through this unit. No amount of "burn-in" would fix this. There was clearly a QC issue in how the diaphragm was installed or tensioned or something as I could see no defects on the diaphragm other than the likely normal wrinkles on some of the traces, yet the distortion graph shows marked increases in higher-order harmonic distortion comparable to those of a damaged driver.


Figure 7: HiFiMan HE1000se second unit left driver distortion.

I was quite unhappy with this result. Sure, music sounded fine, but I paid for excellence, not something potentially worse in distortion than the Edition XS. With this, I was able to make a case for a warranty claim and would have a third unit on its way to me. Thank goodness that NetParcel had excellent shipping rates for the return of the first two units. And lo and behold...


Figure 8: HiFiMan HE1000se third unit right driver distortion. Basically the same distortion issues as in the previous unit.


Figure 9: HiFiMan HE1000se third unit left driver distortion. I had told myself to be content if at least one driver were good (this one still isn't as good as on my very first HE1000se, though there is a chance that my between-session volume calibration had drifted), but I didn't think the not-good driver would be as bad as on the previous unit.

So as you can see, HiFiMan QC seems to not account for the drivers' distortion performance (or considers this much variation under a threshold acceptable), or I at least strongly doubt these measurements will be much different after 150 hours of "burn-in". At least from the upper light brown traces in the preceding measurements for these three units, one can see that HiFiMan did a fine job with driver matching and frequency response consistency (discounting variations caused by physiological asymmetry per my use of in-ear mics; here, the left driver was measured with the mic that happened to have bass roll-off). The first unit's "PASS" stamp is dated in August of 2023 while the second and third units are dated in November of 2023. I do not know how earlier units would measure.

Sure, this distortion may only be audible when listening to the sine sweep with in-ear mics inserted, but for one who separates objective performance from the subjective "lore" around a headphone's sound, we should expect more appreciable objective gains and quality control from such a price difference.

This is the biggest pile of utter crap i've yet read on this site.

 

[Light - Man]

 

[bfreedma]

This is the biggest pile of utter crap i've yet read on this site.

Care to explain your position? Something you should do if you're denigrating someone else's post.

Edited for grammar

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Care to explain your position? Something you should do if your denigrating someone else's post.

Either they hate people who care about objective performance, or "utter crap" here expresses rather a grave disappointment with HiFiMan.

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Would you be happy if you bought a Susvara and discovered that your particular unit that you were "enjoying" actually had distortion defects equivalent to having a hole pierced through their diaphragms? (Per theveteran's misunderstanding, this is not describing the Susvara itself as having an innately "defective-like" distortion performance which is not what measurements show, but rather saying how objective measurement can reveal if your own unit happened to have defective drivers.)

Maybe you didn't read that my own close subjective listening on the first, good HE1000se I had didn't reveal anything magical insofar as I know how to volume match and know that no headphone without crossfeed based on personal HRTF measurements is going to accurately image a live orchestra.

 

[theveterans]

Would you be happy if you bought a Susvara and discovered that your particular unit that you were "enjoying" actually had distortion defects equivalent to having a hole pierced through their diaphragms?

Maybe you didn't read that my own close subjective listening on the first, good HE1000se I had didn't reveal anything magical insofar as I know how to volume match and know that no headphone without crossfeed based on personal HRTF measurements is going to accurately image a live orchestra.

Amir's crappy topping can't properly drive the Sus at 114 dB SPL lol. Susvara is just showing how crappy that topping amp is when give the load equivalent of Susvara

 

[MrHaelscheir]

Amir's crappy topping can't properly drive the Sus at 114 dB SPL lol. Susvara is just showing how crappy that topping amp is when give the load equivalent of Susvara

Firstly, I wasn't talking about Amir's measurement which from my perspective shows an example of a good (non-defective) driver at 94 dB. I am talking about how to objectively know if your Susvara unit happened to have had a poorly installed diaphragm and thus distortion much worse than the already reasonable measurements shown, given the HE1000se QC issues I had observed in my original post.

Otherwise, did you not see these graphs?

 

[theveterans]

I would've heard it EASILY as IMD and losing dynamics if I know my amp is losing steam. His graphs show his amps is starting to clip the Susvara and not that the Susvara is defective lol