Topping D90

[JHern]

I think you misunderstood sajunky, he was talking about an 8x TDA1387 dac that does not require opamps since the TDA already have high voltage output.

OK, understood. Thanks for elucidating.

But the problem is, we really do not exactly know how hearing work. We know about hammer and anvil, cochlea and sensor hairs but little about the nerves and connection to the frontal lobe of the brain. Like, how can you be (over)sensitive to supersonic noises at an age where you usually can't even hear 20kHz anymore. So you're in uncharted territory to explore.

Indeed.

I would suggest to try either NOS and non-filtered or maybe exactly opposite brickwall filtering. Or go (oversampling) to >96kHz and use a slow filter so you know you won't have ~20kHz-30kHz artifacts.

I think your goal shouldn't be to not be aggravated but to enjoy (duh). I think your best bet is to go R2R and tubes. And speakers io headphones. And not dometweeters that struggle to get to 20kHz but proper tweeters that can do it with ease (and no stored energy, breakup or resonance). Not all dometweeters are bad but to me most share a certain 'sound'. Often it's a lackluster filter but most dometweeters just don't cut it. Same goes for most headphones that are simply dynamic full range drivers. You can get great sound that isn't just satisfactory but really awesome. High end is kind of the search for nirvana (in a philosophical sense because it's the losing of self and desire and restraints instead of heaven being the self in the way it was initially created, thats not going to fix your problem on your own).

Nice, I hope you don't mind if I borrow this framing some time in the future. The search continues.

I like your philosophy about numbers. Yet there is an exception that can create reality from numbers. Its called 'life' by means of DNA which is in fact stored information and algorithms to reproduce and recreate.

Now you're getting into my specialty as a scientist. DNA actually helps to make my point, it gives instructions for molecular processes, but those processes must always develop in context with the surrounding environs in order to be useful and manifest "life" as we know it. And even under very similar conditions (e.g., identical twins), the life of an organism can differ quite a lot owing to small perturbations that grow into significant factors over time.

And some (thinkers/scientist) say that the entire universe is a digital simulation.

That is science fiction. But fun, nevertheless.

But that doesn't really help the case of the flat-earther number fetishists (because: who's doing the programming then?).

I still think that the notion that the process of measurement (reality->numbers) cannot be inverted (numbers->reality)...or at least that such a thing is unproven. When you start to think about it, the problems appear insurmountable. First, we can only measure that which we can measure (which isn't the whole picture), so it is a subset of reality. Second, we tend to measure the things that are most easily measured, and there is no a priori reason to expect that the easiest measurements are the most meaningful in the inverse process. And so on...anyways, we are going on a tangent in a thread about the Topping D90, so maybe good to continue in another venue, if you wish.

 

[JHern]

I made some quick recordings streaming Tidal MQA with my Sony PCM-D100. This is a simple small stereo system (Marantz M-CR603 to Dali Zensor 1s), but it should be able to see what is going on in the audio band of interest. It was placed closer to the speakers than nominal listening position, but I was mostly interested in getting the high frequencies. Settings were LPCM192/24. D90 was set to Mode 3 filter (the default).

...

Attached are 2 spectra (grabbed from Adobe Audition) from my brief recordings.

The first one shows what the spectra typically looked like for several songs I recorded (before the kids stormed in the door and interrupted me)...this is just a snap shot, the lows and mids bounce around a lot in amplitude, but the highs are more consistently looking like the first example, a roll-off and then flat by 20kHz and up. The floor for these ultrasonics is roughly 55(+/-5)dB below typical levels at 1kHz.

The second image is a spectra that I found on a song (Let Me Ride by Dr Dre & Jewell) where I suspected that my right ear was aggravating me with high pitches...the song has a synth track with a high pitched whistle-like sound that the producers play with and it gets pretty aggressive during some sections. Notice that the ultra-sonics fall off about 70(+/-5)dB below the 1kHz level, but then there is a kind of sharp upward 15dB rise from 40-96kHz.

I also attach an image from the Topping D90 manual showing FFTs for the roll-off filters. Filter 3 shows a roll off of -100dB for simple mono-spectral input.

...

Of course I'd much rather have the ultrasonics at -100dB below the mids, 55-70 is in the range of audible distortion, except for the fact that these frequencies are supposed to be inaudible. I need to do some more digging to see what aspects are coming from the Topping D90. I really need to look at MQA vs. non-MQA, since high frequencies have been seen to behave strangely for MQA files in some analyses I've seen. Also I need to find out what the little Marantz does playing CDs from its own tray as a reference for comparison. But this is a start...stay tuned for more.

 

[auronthas]

Hi, how many of D90 owners are using balanced XLR?

After almost a year using D90 with balanced output (both DAC and Pre Mode), the sound remains little too bright and harsh on certain tracks especially upper frequency (could be my gears combination or AK4499 too analytical or poor recording tracks).

I decided to change to single ended RCA output, now it sounds smoother and yet detail.

Got an used 20years old Sony CD player CDP-997 recently as CD Transport, using spdif output to D90 and i am impressed with this synergy.

 

[Taz777]

Hi, how many of D90 owners are using balanced XLR?

After almost a year using D90 with balanced output (both DAC and Pre Mode), the sound remains little too bright and harsh on certain tracks especially upper frequency (could be my gears combination or AK4499 too analytical or poor recording tracks).

I decided to change to single ended RCA output, now it sounds smoother and yet detail.

Got an used 20years old Sony CD player CDP-997 recently as CD Transport, using spdif output to D90 and i am impressed with this synergy.

I'm using balanced XLR from the D90 to my Arcam rHead headphone amp. The sound is amazing and a slight improvement on RCA when I first tested the two. With regards to the harshness, you could try to reduce the volume output in Pre mode to something like -3dB if you haven't tried that already.

On my old Topping D50 DAC, I had to set the output at -3dB in order for the sound to be smoother with the active speakers.

The most important thing is that it sounds good to your ears, so if you enjoy the RCA out more than the XLR out, stick with RCA!

 

[auronthas]

you could try to reduce the volume output in Pre mode to something like -3dB if you haven't tried that already.

Yes, I have tried the Balanced and Pre mode as described, upto -6dB to some tracks.

Don't get me wrong, good quality sound recording , balanced XLR can sound better with slight deeper and wider soundstage. ( I switch the D90 XLR <> RCA via remote and my integrated amplifier's remote single and balanced for A/B test)

Sometimes I listen from Tidals, there are good and poor quality recording, thus, RCA is my choice

It could be also my speaker's character, Sonus Faber demand for mostly classical or jazz genres

 

[SteffSergeant]

To my mind it's an amazing DAC. Especially combined with an A90. I have heard a lot of DACs in this price range and nothing comes close. If you want a more naturalI (round) sound, okay maybe the Denafrips will do. But if you like microdetails and a uncolored clear sound, there is no way around this DAC.

By the way, I have one to sell, if anyone is interested, write a pm.

 

[auronthas]

I have a question for anyone with this DAC or dacs with XLR output...I have 3 amps, LP, gsx-mini, and Feliks Elise. I ahve the Elise connected to the D90 via RCA. Both my LP and Mini uses XLR input. Is there any way i can connect both amps to the XLR output of the D90 at the same time so i can run all 3 amps at the same time? I know i can run both rca + xlr from the D90 simultaneously....but i would like to connect two xlr amps to the d90 at the same time.

a Pre-amp that you need eg. Topping Pre-90

 

[milkdudd]

To my mind it's an amazing DAC. Especially combined with an A90. I have heard a lot of DACs in this price range and nothing comes close. If you want a more naturalI (round) sound, okay maybe the Denafrips will do. But if you like microdetails and a uncolored clear sound, there is no way around this DAC.

By the way, I have one to sell, if anyone is interested, write a pm.

I imagine it's been sold by now but if not please shoot me a PM. Thanks

 

[KenMan85]

The USB of the D90 also sounds very good with allo shanti/allo signature usbridge with BT disabled, and in DAC mode, dunno how it would compare to I²S tough.

Disabled. Bt on the allo or on the d90

 

[NickedWicked]

Seems the new D90SE brings even better performance: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-d90se-review-balanced-dac.24235/

 

[sajunky]

Oh, ASR.

 

[silent-circuit]

Oh, ASR.

Right? If no one mentioned ASR or Zeos on this site again we'd all be better off.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Sandu's Topping D90SE DAC review

 

[John Massaria]

im good with my d90 non mqa

 

[JHern]

123 vs. 120 SINAD, the latter of which was already well beyond audible in terms of transparency. And it is 50% more expensive than the original D90.

I guess one can consider this as a fun technical achievement, even if it has no practical bearing on actual listening. Topping had to move away from the AK4499 chip due to supply issues, so it made sense for them to try hard with a more stable chip supply and do even better in terms of statistics.