Topping D90
- Thread starter m-i-c-k-e-y
- Start date
NPWS
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
- Posts
- 417
- Likes
- 105
yeah I've read that's spec on topping web.
from what I heard on my d90se, RCA only have more power than XLR only, for example I drive my sundara using RCA only I set the volume on my SA-1 between 10 / 11, when I switch to XLR only I have to adjust the volume to 1 / 2.
I'm afraid that my unit was defective.
Last edited:
TheMiddleSky
Headphoneus Supremus
That's really strange. D90SE in pre mode or DAC mode?
Both RCA and XLR made from the exact cable material?
NPWS
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
- Posts
- 417
- Likes
- 105
I always set my d90se to DAC mode, but its still the same when I switch to PRE mode. RCA only has bigger power.
No, I used just a pair of really cheap cable for RCA cost only $5 and DIY build up custom cable for XLR cost almost $100
hmscott
1000+ Head-Fier
Topping has taken their USB ground loop problem seriously and released 2 new products, one like the ifi iDefender+ and one like the various standalone USB interfaces that has the USB isolation built-in...
My D90/A90 had lots of noise related issues to resolve, and it looks like Topping took the solution to heart, IDK if they copied ifi's iDefender+
or if it has other functions, but the Topping HS01 form factor is similar and costs the same as the ifi iDefender+, but has a metal case instead of plastic:
TOPPING HS01 USB 2.0 High Speed Audio Isolator
https://apos.audio/products/topping-hs01
Topping came out with a more elaborate solution + other digital interface features
TOPPING U90 USB Bridge
https://apos.audio/products/topping-u90
The main Topping English website doesn't have these yet, and it looks like Apos got an exclusive, I received their newsletter announcing these new Topping products about 30 minutes ago
And, now I hope Topping does the right thing and builds these noise abatement functions into their future DAC products.
My D90/A90 had lots of noise related issues to resolve, and it looks like Topping took the solution to heart, IDK if they copied ifi's iDefender+
or if it has other functions, but the Topping HS01 form factor is similar and costs the same as the ifi iDefender+, but has a metal case instead of plastic:
TOPPING HS01 USB 2.0 High Speed Audio Isolator
https://apos.audio/products/topping-hs01
Topping came out with a more elaborate solution + other digital interface features
TOPPING U90 USB Bridge
https://apos.audio/products/topping-u90
The main Topping English website doesn't have these yet, and it looks like Apos got an exclusive, I received their newsletter announcing these new Topping products about 30 minutes ago
And, now I hope Topping does the right thing and builds these noise abatement functions into their future DAC products.
Last edited:
hmscott
1000+ Head-Fier
Originally posted on ASR:
I woke up yesterday morning to a pleasent surprise, a Topping HS01 had already been "ordered" on my account at Hifigo.com, and the HS01 is already shipped and on it's way to me. I guess they hoped I'd say "yes" to the request for testing, and they were correct.
It looks like my long drawn out squawk about my Topping A90/D90 "noise" issues posted on ASR is coming around again for me to test new solutions.
A few months ago I put out an RFQ to World's Best Cables on Amazon to custom build 4 cables of lengths 3' and 6', with 3.5mm to RCA ends for field use, and so I could connect my devices with 3.5mm audio ports to my A90/TA-20 desktop setup.
I'd been through a number of progressively more expensive series of pre-built cables for 3.5mm to RCA and they all failed to block RFI/EMI in my set up. Very disappointing actually, how poorly shielded cables are made today.
The Worlds Best XLR/RCA cables built from Mogami 2534 with 4-wire quad-star faraday-cage-like shielding were the only ones I found out of a similar long hunt for RFI/EMI blocking cables that worked in my environment. So I asked WBC if they would build cables to spec using similar shielding design but modified to a light build for hand-held use.
If the 3.5mm-RCA custom built cables were built using Mogami 2534 the cables would be unweildy in the field and in the hand (some are hand-held devices) with such a heavy thick cable, but Mogami makes a similarly shielded quad wire Mogami 2893 which should fill the need nicely. I'm looking forward to testing the cable for RFI/EMI rejection.
I'll post my findings as I discover them. A word about my current state of health, it's not great, so I'm much slower to "get around to it" than usual, but I do persist - so eventually I'll post something, my apologies in advance for any delay's.
I've been working up to the custom 3.5mm to RCA cable testing for quite a long time, and it is nice that Topping released the HS01 USB Isolator I can test at the same time, coincidentally I have a number of deliveries scheduled to arrive this Thursday, 11/11 that were supposed to arrive later in November and December, it looks like some of the shipping blockages may be working themselves out for the Holidays, hopefully the HS01 won't take too long to get here.
My Kindle Paperwhite Signature Edition also arrives Thursday - and I am hoping, although I haven't seen it discussed or confirmed anywhere, that a USB-C to 3.5mm audio adapter will pass audio out the Kindle's USB-C port; then I can use one of the custom built WBC 3.5mm to RCA cables to play my Audiobooks EMI/RFI free through my A90/TA-20.
Now, perhaps someone will give the Topping U90 a try and report on it here as well.
If there are any updates I'll add to this post later...
Last edited:
sajunky
Headphoneus Supremus
A90 is a noise generator affecting any interconnected device. It is due to the incorrect use of a dual SMPS for generating +/gnd/- rails. Once a noise is not dealt at the source, it is difficult to protect other components. Defender type device will help, but it would be better without a dual SMPS.
hmscott
1000+ Head-Fier
At least in my situation after all the mitigation externally my A90 has a dead quiet black background silent in my most sensitive IEMs. I also don't hear the physical power supply buzz/whine coming from the back left corner that some have reported hearing coming through the case. Maybe I got lucky?
Last edited:
sajunky
Headphoneus Supremus
This is a different noise I am talking about, is not heard if there is no intermodulation products on the amp. Actually A90 RCA inputs are noisy (in most cases), I cannot say without testing whether a noise from dual SMPS grounding issue is responsible for. It can, but then it is a different issue.
The main point I raised is that while Topping is releasing iDefender-like devices to protect a DAC from a noisy USB source like PC which translate to the increased jitter, they forget that the same kind of HF noise reach a DAC from a downstream device which is their own A90 amp and it is ignored.
hmscott
1000+ Head-Fier
Well, that is a lot of speculation, but I do agree that Topping needs to - and I am sure is already taking into account - the need to improve their devices based on problems found after production.
Design choices are often a matter of convenience in acquiring parts. I've been asked many years ago - not just during a pandemic - by the purchasing department if certain "lessor" parts are an ok substitution. Those fine people aren't engineers so their concerns may be unwarranted - in some cases it was a matter of voltage carrying difference - and it was within specification, so I told them that size matters too and if the part is too large due to higher voltage carrying ability even though the part would work it could be too large to fit.
Then there are the substitutions due to co-marketing agreements, which this design substitution might qualify under either or both categories, or it was an attempt to fit the power supply inside the case at the request of customers to not have an external "wall-wort"
I think as a company, engineers, QA/Purchasing get their "feet" under them and continue to grow and work together, they work out these glitches as improvements, a path all design and manufacturing organizations follow - no matter where they are geographically.
I'd keep giving Topping input, as they do pay attention, as clearly shown by their recent attempts at solving the noise issues with their existing customers and existing products. That is why I keep asking nicely to include those improvements - or the equivalent - in their new products so we don't need external solutions - except for an external power supply that has room to increase in size and power depth - and to remove the power supply from our earshot so any physical noise characteristics aren't heard too, externally.
Well, that is a lot of speculation, but I do agree that Topping needs to - and I am sure is already taking into account - the need to improve their devices based on problems found after production.
Design choices are often a matter of convenience in acquiring parts. I've been asked many years ago - not just during a pandemic - by the purchasing department if certain "lessor" parts are an ok substitution. Those fine people aren't engineers so their concerns may be unwarranted - in some cases it was a matter of voltage carrying difference - and it was within specification, so I told them that size matters too and if the part is too large due to higher voltage carrying ability even though the part would work it could be too large to fit.
Then there are the substitutions due to co-marketing agreements, which this design substitution might qualify under either or both categories, or it was an attempt to fit the power supply inside the case at the request of customers to not have an external "wall-wort"
I think as a company, engineers, QA/Purchasing get their "feet" under them and continue to grow and work together, they work out these glitches as improvements, a path all design and manufacturing organizations follow - no matter where they are geographically.
I'd keep giving Topping input, as they do pay attention, as clearly shown by their recent attempts at solving the noise issues with their existing customers and existing products. That is why I keep asking nicely to include those improvements - or the equivalent - in their new products so we don't need external solutions - except for an external power supply that has room to increase in size and power depth - and to remove the power supply from our earshot so any physical noise characteristics aren't heard too, externally.
Don't hold your breath there. Measured performance is #1 priority with Topping. In their products some quality and consistency has been sacrificed for this goal.
kingoftown1
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Posts
- 907
- Likes
- 580
@Voxata
Measured performance is #1 priority with Topping right now. Dacs and headphone amps weren't always Topping's major products, and ASR-style objectivisim wasn't always the end goal-- look back 8-10 years to the TP-20 and other Tripath amps that originally got them noticed. They've shown the ability to pivot before, so why not now?
Right now, they've just dug themselves into a weird hole with their close ASR association. It gets them a lot of traction with a mostly younger demographic that's new to the hobby, which must be the largest market segment or at least the easiest to get a footing in. At the same time, that community is so divisive that Topping risks going down when (not if) ASR does. I haven't looked into these new devices at all, but don't they show signs of adapting to the changing market? IIRC the ASR community has not been keen on DDCs in the past.
edit: or maybe they're just throwing stuff out there and seeing what sticks. They did make the Pre-90, after all.
Measured performance is #1 priority with Topping right now. Dacs and headphone amps weren't always Topping's major products, and ASR-style objectivisim wasn't always the end goal-- look back 8-10 years to the TP-20 and other Tripath amps that originally got them noticed. They've shown the ability to pivot before, so why not now?
Right now, they've just dug themselves into a weird hole with their close ASR association. It gets them a lot of traction with a mostly younger demographic that's new to the hobby, which must be the largest market segment or at least the easiest to get a footing in. At the same time, that community is so divisive that Topping risks going down when (not if) ASR does. I haven't looked into these new devices at all, but don't they show signs of adapting to the changing market? IIRC the ASR community has not been keen on DDCs in the past.
edit: or maybe they're just throwing stuff out there and seeing what sticks. They did make the Pre-90, after all.
Last edited:
hmscott
1000+ Head-Fier
New Topping DAC(s) driver 5.27, works fine on my Windows 10 install. No release notes or change/fix list came with it or is mentioned on the download page:
https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/571736.html?s=createtime,desc
https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/571736.html?s=createtime,desc
NPWS
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
- Posts
- 417
- Likes
- 105
can you please test with your unit?
milkdudd
500+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2017
- Posts
- 761
- Likes
- 562
I have never had any hisses or hums using my D90. I only use Android as a source when streaming. UAPP and Amazon music, mostly ultra HD as they call it. Does anyone know if it's only when a PC is used as the source that these noise issues happen? The reason I ask is because I heard using the i2s input with a Singxer SU-2 USB Digital Interface will significantly improve sound quality. I'm thinking that might only be when using a PC as the source. I asked this question a month or two ago a couple of different places and never got any response on that. I could see springing for the Singxer SU-2 (or SU-6) but only if I could verify it improves sound quality when using Android, Wi-Fi in airplane mode in my case. Anyone care to opine?
Users who are viewing this thread
