[prymortal]

New Topping DAC(s) driver 5.27, works fine on my Windows 10 install. No release notes or change/fix list came with it or is mentioned on the download page:
https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/571736.html?s=createtime,desc

Works fine on Windows 11 as well. I Cant compare notes as i forgot the page to go to, but I do know they did just add Windows 11 support.

 

[hmscott]

I have never had any hisses or hums using my D90. I only use Android as a source when streaming. UAPP and Amazon music, mostly ultra HD as they call it. Does anyone know if it's only when a PC is used as the source that these noise issues happen? The reason I ask is because I heard using the i2s input with a Singxer SU-2 USB Digital Interface will significantly improve sound quality. I'm thinking that might only be when using a PC as the source. I asked this question a month or two ago a couple of different places and never got any response on that. I could see springing for the Singxer SU-2 (or SU-6) but only if I could verify it improves sound quality when using Android, Wi-Fi in airplane mode in my case. Anyone care to opine?

Yes, it is only the USB input, but that input is usually the one with the "special processing" chip for USB that allows for higher resolution PCM signals, like 384khz/768khz, while Optical - the usual choice for noise free input - often only does 192k or less.

My Ryzen AM4 B450 doesn't have an optical out connector - even though the Device Manager shows hardware to support optical output , and of course there is no I2S output either.

Topping has come out with the U90 which takes a USB input - uses their HS01 design USB isolator built-in - with a configurable I2S output to provide higher speed front end to the D90/D90SE, or other I2S input capable DAC.

Works fine on Windows 11 as well. I Cant compare notes as i forgot the page to go to, but I do know they did just add Windows 11 support.

Thanks for posting the links, this page says the current 5.27 driver supports Windows 11 and 10:
https://www.thesycon.de/eng/usb_audiodriver.shtml#platforms

Supported Platforms​

• Windows 10 32-bit
• Windows 10 64-bit
• Windows 11 64-bit

 

[Starvingforschiit]

Hey guys.

So I have a major ground loop issue where my main station for listening to music, is also a 3080 gaming pc. I can't really change the wiring around in my flat, and my motherboard doesn't support optical, unfortunately.

When I use my Tube amp I get major noise when I move the mouse, I am hoping the Topping HS01 or the Idefender would help eliminate this noise? When connected via usb with a laptop, it is noiseless.

A galvanic isolator is like 400 pounds so I will pass on that for now as well. Would be great though.

Sorry if its off topic but would the HS01 help me in this instance?

Thanks.

 

[hmscott]

Hey guys.

So I have a major ground loop issue where my main station for listening to music, is also a 3080 gaming pc. I can't really change the wiring around in my flat, and my motherboard doesn't support optical, unfortunately.

When I use my Tube amp I get major noise when I move the mouse, I am hoping the Topping HS01 or the Idefender would help eliminate this noise? When connected via usb with a laptop, it is noiseless.

A galvanic isolator is like 400 pounds so I will pass on that for now as well. Would be great though.

Sorry if its off topic but would the HS01 help me in this instance?

Thanks.

It is right on topic actually, we've all at some point had noise problems to solve. And with my Topping D90 MQA / A90 connected to my Ryzen 3700x/Nvidia 2070 Super via USB I had GPU birdies, but I also had RCA connection and noise problems, which I first solved with better shielded cables for RCA, XLR, and USB. All that was left was GPU induced noise when I ran GPU compute or played games.

Fortunately I didn't have mouse movement induced noise, so for a while I lived without the iDefender+ and as I researched solutions for solving the Gaming / Compute noise from the GPU, I found the iDefender+ was the most affordable option - not as cheap as covering the connector power pins with insulating tape to break the power lines connection at the PC, but the iDefender+ did more intelligent handling of sensing and loading the ground - and was designed to cut out noise from the audible range - so I tried it, and it worked.

I had 2 DAC's hooked up so I needed 2 iDefenders initially, then I used a DK1 dock with split power and data ports for the FiiO M15 and no longer needed the iDefender+ for that USB connection to the PC.

I used the USB-A to USB-A version for the D90 - USB-B to the D90, USB-A to the PC, plug the iDefender+ into the PC and the USB-A from the D90 into the iDefender+.

There isn't anything else to do unless you need 5V power to drive the DAC, then you'd get a low noise 5V power supply to plug into the side of the iDefender+, I used the iPowerX also from iFi initially to power the M15, but then I didn't need the iDefender+ to the M15 after I powered the M15 through the DK1 dock.

Here is what/where I bought the iDefender+
https://www.amazon.com/iFi-iDefender-External-Ground-Eliminator/dp/B0849J33T9

Here is a video that shows before / after GPU noise using the iDefender3.0, the predecessor to the iDefender+:

ifi iDefender 3.0 Review & Demo: Breaking a GPU Noise Ground Loop

I have a Topping HS01 arriving in hopefully a week or so from China - tracking shows it took 4 days to make it from Hifigo to the Airport and fly out - usually it is only 1-2 days. From flight out it usually takes 7-8 days, but that was before the Port/Customs backup's in the US, so it might take a bit longer this time..

I'll swap the HS01 in for the iDefender+ and report back how it works out.

 

[Starvingforschiit]

It is right on topic actually, we've all at some point had noise problems to solve. And with my Topping D90 MQA / A90 connected to my Ryzen 3700x/Nvidia 2070 Super via USB I had GPU birdies, but I also had RCA connection noise problems, which I first solved with better shielded cables for RCA and XLR.

Then I researched solutions for solving the Gaming / Compute noise from the GPU, and found the iDefender+ was the most affordable option - not as cheap as covering the connector power pins with insulating tape to break the power lines connection at the PC, but it did more intelligent handling of loading the ground - and designed to cut out noise from the audible range - and I tried it, and it worked.

I had 2 DAC's hooked up so I needed 2 iDefenders initially, then I used a DK1 dock with split power and data ports for the FiiO M15 and no longer needed the iDefender+ for that USB connection to the PC.

I used the USB-A to USB-A version for the D90 (USB-B to the D90, USB-A to the PC, plug the iDefender+ into the PC and the USB-A from the D90 into the iDefender+.

There isn't anything else to do unless you need 5V power to drive the DAC, then you'd get a low noise 5V power supply to plug into the side of the iDefender+, I used the iPowerX also from iFi initially to power the M15, but then I didn't need it after I powered the M15 through the DK1 dock.

Here is what/where I bought the iDefneder+
https://www.amazon.com/iFi-iDefender-External-Ground-Eliminator/dp/B0849J33T9

Here is a video that shows before / after GPU noise using the iDefender3.0, the predecessor to the iDefender+:

ifi iDefender 3.0 Review & Demo: Breaking a GPU Noise Ground Loop

I have a Topping HS01 arriving in hopefully a week or so from China - tracking shows it took 4 days to make it from Hifigo to the Airport and fly out - usually it is only 1-2 days. From flight out it usually takes 7-8 days, but that was before the Port/Customs backup's in the US, so it might take a bit longer this time..

I'll swap the HS01 in for the iDefender+ and report back how it works out.

Thanks man, this is unbelievably helpful to me.

I have a 50 dollar off coupon for shenzhen so I will get the HS01 since it will only cost me about 20 dollars now, which seems a crazy bargain if it gets me that sweet silence.

Thanks for that video, really showed it working which is exciting.

I look forward to your write up after it comes, thanks again!

 

[sajunky]

When I use my Tube amp I get major noise when I move the mouse, I am hoping the Topping HS01 or the Idefender would help eliminate this noise? When connected via usb with a laptop, it is noiseless.

A galvanic isolator is like 400 pounds so I will pass on that for now as well. Would be great though.

Sure, it doesn’t need to be isolator, a simple ground loop redirecting device like a poorman DDC should help.

However I think that mouse interference is not due to the ground loops, but a low speed USB device is exhausting a bandwidth. On a gaming PC you have many ports, chose one on the back (not a front) and check with device manager which port is linked which root hub. Select an option View by connection. Reorganize devices to let a DAC run on separate root hub. If it is only one USB 3.0 controller, get USB 2.0 hub with MTT feature and move all USB 1.1 (low and full speed) devices like keyboard and mouse to this hub. It will translate all slow speed devices to the high speed uplink, not wasting a bandwidth. USB 3.x devices are not affected, as transmition is running on a separate pair of wires.

 

[hmscott]

Thanks man, this is unbelievably helpful to me.

I have a 50 dollar off coupon for shenzhen so I will get the HS01 since it will only cost me about 20 dollars now, which seems a crazy bargain if it gets me that sweet silence.

Thanks for that video, really showed it working which is exciting.

I look forward to your write up after it comes, thanks again!

Wow!, that's a great discount

Here's another newer video I found, a month old, and it uses the iDefender+ as well as describes other mitigations to use to reduce noise in Studio Audio systems:

iFi IDefender+ Review - Will It Fix My Studio Monitor Ground Loop Noise Problem?

The Topping HS01 flew out of Shenzhen earlier today, hopefully I'll get it by this coming weekend:

Tracking History​

Date	Time	Location	Activity
2021-11-16	16:46:00	InTransit	Departed from Airport of Origin
2021-11-15	18:21:00	InTransit	Arrived at Airport of Origin
2021-11-15	10:19:00	Shenzhen	Transfer to Airport of Origin
2021-11-15	03:14:36	SHENZHEN	Item was sent out from [SHENZHEN] Logistics Centre
2021-11-14	11:46:33	SHENZHEN	Item received by [SHENZHEN] Logistics Centre
2021-11-12	18:56:39	SHENZHEN	Shipment information received

It usually only takes 1-2 days to make it from Hifigo to the Airport, they are already slowing down, it should take 5-7 days from LA to here, or 2-3 days from OAK.

Sure, it doesn’t need to be isolator, a simple ground loop redirecting device like a poorman DDC should help.

However I think that mouse interference is not due to the ground loops, but a low speed USB device is exhausting a bandwidth. On a gaming PC you have many ports, chose one on the back (not a front) and check with device manager which port is linked which root hub. Select an option View by connection. Reorganize devices to let a DAC run on separate root hub. If it is only one USB 3.0 controller, get USB 2.0 hub with MTT feature and move all USB 1.1 (low and full speed) devices like keyboard and mouse to this hub. It will translate all slow speed devices to the high speed uplink, not wasting a bandwidth. USB 3.x devices are not affected, as transmition is running on a separate pair of wires.

Yup, I ran into another twist of this "sorting of the USB devices"; I was getting dropout's from a USB cable connected to my FiiO M15 on it's DK1 dock, and one of my PC's USB 3.0 sockets on the top panel. The USB cable worked fine when directly plugged into the M15.

Well, it turned out that the FiiO DK1 dock internal circuitry decreased the USB signal strength, and the internal PC jumper cable from the Motherboard to the top of the PC also decreased the USB signal. Together they virtually increased the length of the cable further than the USB driver on the motherboard could successfully connect.

The solution was to plug that cable into the DK1 dock as needed and plug the PC side of the cable directly into the motherboard on the back panel. No more disconnects.

And, I plugged my slow USB devices into USB 2.0 ports on the back panel to save the USB 3.0 ports for faster devices that could use the higher potential connection speeds.

 

[iFi audio]

It is right on topic actually, we've all at some point had noise problems to solve. And with my Topping D90 MQA / A90 connected to my Ryzen 3700x/Nvidia 2070 Super via USB I had GPU birdies, but I also had RCA connection and noise problems, which I first solved with better shielded cables for RCA, XLR, and USB. All that was left was GPU induced noise when I ran GPU compute or played games.

Fortunately I didn't have mouse movement induced noise, so for a while I lived without the iDefender+ and as I researched solutions for solving the Gaming / Compute noise from the GPU, I found the iDefender+ was the most affordable option - not as cheap as covering the connector power pins with insulating tape to break the power lines connection at the PC, but the iDefender+ did more intelligent handling of sensing and loading the ground - and was designed to cut out noise from the audible range - so I tried it, and it worked.

I had 2 DAC's hooked up so I needed 2 iDefenders initially, then I used a DK1 dock with split power and data ports for the FiiO M15 and no longer needed the iDefender+ for that USB connection to the PC.

I used the USB-A to USB-A version for the D90 - USB-B to the D90, USB-A to the PC, plug the iDefender+ into the PC and the USB-A from the D90 into the iDefender+.

There isn't anything else to do unless you need 5V power to drive the DAC, then you'd get a low noise 5V power supply to plug into the side of the iDefender+, I used the iPowerX also from iFi initially to power the M15, but then I didn't need it after I powered the M15 through the DK1 dock.

Here is what/where I bought the iDefneder+
https://www.amazon.com/iFi-iDefender-External-Ground-Eliminator/dp/B0849J33T9

Here is a video that shows before / after GPU noise using the iDefender3.0, the predecessor to the iDefender+:

ifi iDefender 3.0 Review & Demo: Breaking a GPU Noise Ground Loop

I have a Topping HS01 arriving in hopefully a week or so from China - tracking shows it took 4 days to make it from Hifigo to the Airport and fly out - usually it is only 1-2 days. From flight out it usually takes 7-8 days, but that was before the Port/Customs backup's in the US, so it might take a bit longer this time..

I'll swap the HS01 in for the iDefender+ and report back how it works out.

Awesome stuff, thanks a lot for mentioning our iDefender+. Were your impressions based on its use with an external PSU? A clean 5V line for DACs can be quite beneficial.

 

[hmscott]

Awesome stuff, thanks a lot for mentioning our iDefender+. Were your impressions based on its use with an external PSU? A clean 5V line for DACs can be quite beneficial.

Yes, I used the iPower X 5v unit to power the iDefender+ connected to my FiiO M15, and the other iDefender+ connected to my Topping D90 didn't need external power.

After I moved the FiiO M15 to the FiiO DK1 Dock I didn't need the iDefender+ on it any longer, as the DK1 has split power/data inputs - the data port already blocked the dirty USB power from the PC, and I moved the iPower X 5v to the power input port of the DK1 - as the DK1 won't run or power the M15 without that separate power input.

Then I wanted to test how clean the iPower X power output was on my battery powered Amateur and SWL radios - those radios are very sensitive to noisy power - I cannot listen on 5v power from Samsung/Sony/random 5v chargers on those radios as those "generic" phone / device 5v chargers are so noisy.

The iPower X is the first 5V charger that allows me to charge/listen to the radio powered off of a 5v charger. Usually I only use the 5V charger to recharge the internal batteries of the devices, so the iPower X 5v output is really clean.

 

[iFi audio]

Yes, I used the iPower X 5v unit to power the iDefender+ connected to my FiiO M15, and the other iDefender+ connected to my Topping D90 didn't need external power.

After I moved the M15 to it's DK1 Dock I didn't need the iDefender+ on it any longer, as the DK1 has split power/data inputs - the data port already blocked the dirty USB power from the PC, and I moved the iPower X 5v to the power input port of the DK1 - as the DK1 won't run or power the M15 without that separate power input.

Then I wanted to test how clean the iPower X power output was on my battery powered Amateur and SWL radios - those radios are very sensitive to noisy power - I cannot listen on 5v power from Samsung/Sony/random 5v chargers on those radios as those "generic" phone / device 5v chargers are so noisy.

The iPower X is the first 5V charger that allows me to charge/listen to the radio powered off of a 5v charger. Usually I only use the 5V charger to recharge the internal batteries of the devices, so the iPower X 5v output is really clean.

Great stuff, thanks a lot for your feedback and agreed on DC-powered radios being very noisy and sensitive to chargers. The noisier a product is, the more quality PSUs will do for it.

 

[milkdudd]

Yes, it is only the USB input, but that input is usually the one with the "special processing" chip for USB that allows for higher resolution PCM signals, like 384khz/768khz, while Optical - the usual choice for noise free input - often only does 192k or less.

My Ryzen AM4 B450 doesn't have an optical out connector - even though the Device Manager shows hardware to support optical output , and of course there is no I2S output either.

Topping has come out with the U90 which takes a USB input - uses their HS01 design USB isolator built-in - with a configurable I2S output to provide higher speed front end to the D90/D90SE, or other I2S input capable DAC.

Thanks for posting the links, this page says the current 5.27 driver supports Windows 11 and 10:
https://www.thesycon.de/eng/usb_audiodriver.shtml#platforms

Supported Platforms​

• Windows 10 32-bit
• Windows 10 64-bit
• Windows 11 64-bit

It looks like you are saying at rates 192 and below that optical is the preferred connection? Not just with the D90 but in general? My source has USB, aes/ebu and optical. I will give the optical another chance with some careful listening. Does anyone know if the adapters from regular optical too mini degrade sound quality? I could probably buy an optical cable that has the mini connector on one end rather than using an adapter. Thanks

 

[Telin]

Yes, it is only the USB input, but that input is usually the one with the "special processing" chip for USB that allows for higher resolution PCM signals, like 384khz/768khz, while Optical - the usual choice for noise free input - often only does 192k or less.

No special processing going on. USB has much higher bandwidth than optical S/PDIF and so supports higher bit and sample rates.

 

[milkdudd]

No special processing going on. USB has much higher bandwidth than optical S/PDIF and so supports higher bit and sample rates.

Yes, but if I never listen to anything over 192/24 does one of the digital interfaces reject jitter, noise or other problems better than the others?

 

[Telin]

Yes, but if I never listen to anything over 192/24 does one of the digital interfaces reject jitter, noise or other problems better than the others?

Depends on the device of course.
Most of the recent DACs are very good in noise and jitter rejection and won't make an audible difference between interfaces.

 

[alsorkin]

123 vs. 120 SINAD, the latter of which was already well beyond audible in terms of transparency. And it is 50% more expensive than the original D90.

I guess one can consider this as a fun technical achievement, even if it has no practical bearing on actual listening. Topping had to move away from the AK4499 chip due to supply issues, so it made sense for them to try hard with a more stable chip supply and do even better in terms of statistics.

Anyone know if my unit has the AK4499 chip?