Topping D90

[Gippy]

I've had the Topping D90 for a week. There is a huge issue with it: the USB implementation is terrible, at least on Windows PCs.

When you use USB input, and audio playback stops, a few seconds later, you will hear a very faint pop. This is the USB driver ceasing transmission and going to "sleep" in order to save power. Why is it doing this? It's a desktop DAC!

Note that I also have an iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, which also exhibited this problem. However, after numerous people complained about this, iFi released a special firmware (5.1b) that disabled sleep mode. This actually fixed the problem for me. Why am I mentioning this? As it turns out, the USB control panel for both the Topping and iFi devices are eerily similar:

In addition, with the USB cable plugged in, I could hear faint noise on my headphones when I turned up the volume knob all the way. My Grado GS3000e uses 32-ohm drivers, so they're more sensitive to that, but it shows that the Topping D90's USB noise filtering isn't ideal.

All of these issues were fixed by disconnecting the USB cable and using optical input, which always sends a signal even when there's no audio playback. I don't have a USB decrapifier like a Schiit Wyrd or an iFi iPurifier3, so I don't know whether that would also be a remedy. I also haven't tested the other input methods like AES. However, as many PCs have optical out on their motherboard, I would advise anyone getting the Topping D90 to at least consider using optical instead of USB.

 

[prymortal]

When you use USB input, and audio playback stops, a few seconds later, you will hear a very faint pop. This is the USB driver ceasing transmission and going to "sleep" in order to save power. Why is it doing this? It's a desktop DAC!

Note that I also have an iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, which also exhibited this problem. However, after numerous people complained about this, iFi released a special firmware (5.1b) that disabled sleep mode. This actually fixed the problem for me. Why am I mentioning this? As it turns out, the USB control panel for both the Topping and iFi devices are eerily similar:

Its a Windows issue..... very common & people with PC experience can figure it out easy themselves, 10mins to figure out it if you use google. From there it does take a bit of time doing....
Further to this as you mention it "audio player back stops a few seconds you hear a faint pop" That's also sometimes caused by a poorly designed USB cable when the plugs don't fit correctly in the Hub & they slide down with the weight. highly likely in your case after reading (Audioquest do it as unfortunately large downside to such a good cable)
Also fun fact just because I have it, If you are getting artifacts or splashy treble on the D90, Large chance your USB cable isn't correctly shielded.

Control Panel>Hardware and Sound Then Device Manager (Make sure device manager pops up because there's a bug where Device & printers opens instead)
Make sure the D90 is plugged in & showing up OR you will need to do all the hidden devices..... Google it.

Under: Universal Serial Bus Controllers right click each one by one, click on Propertys > go to Power Management if it has the tab, if not skip, Untick the options there, Click ok.
Done, onto the next.

Under: Human Interface Device - Well do the same thing. Because me telling you to match the Events, device HID to the D90 & just untick that one isn't going to help.

If you PC is in high performance under power options you shouldn't need to do this. But as its windows & they no longer test.... you still probably do.

 

[jwcullison]

Bummer to hear of this issue

 

[KenMan85]

1. Open Control Panel.
2. Click on Hardware and Sound.
3. Click on Power Options.
4. Under "Preferred plan," click the Change plan settings link for the plan you're currently using. (If you change the settings on the power plan that isn't active, this won't work.)
   
5. Click the Change advanced power settings link.
   
6. Expand USB settings.
7. Expand USB selective suspend setting.
8. Select Disabled from the drop-down menu.
   
9. Click Apply.
10. Click OK.

 

[newtophones07]

I've had the Topping D90 for a week. There is a huge issue with it: the USB implementation is terrible, at least on Windows PCs.

When you use USB input, and audio playback stops, a few seconds later, you will hear a very faint pop. This is the USB driver ceasing transmission and going to "sleep" in order to save power. Why is it doing this? It's a desktop DAC!

Note that I also have an iFi Micro iDSD Black Label, which also exhibited this problem. However, after numerous people complained about this, iFi released a special firmware (5.1b) that disabled sleep mode. This actually fixed the problem for me. Why am I mentioning this? As it turns out, the USB control panel for both the Topping and iFi devices are eerily similar:



In addition, with the USB cable plugged in, I could hear faint noise on my headphones when I turned up the volume knob all the way. My Grado GS3000e uses 32-ohm drivers, so they're more sensitive to that, but it shows that the Topping D90's USB noise filtering isn't ideal.

All of these issues were fixed by disconnecting the USB cable and using optical input, which always sends a signal even when there's no audio playback. I don't have a USB decrapifier like a Schiit Wyrd or an iFi iPurifier3, so I don't know whether that would also be a remedy. I also haven't tested the other input methods like AES. However, as many PCs have optical out on their motherboard, I would advise anyone getting the Topping D90 to at least consider using optical instead of USB.

I have a D90, and even when using iems, I have never heard noises like that. I have a wireworld, supra, cheap amazon basics and an oxide silver USB and none exhibit the issues described.

The optical input is the lesser of the inputs on the D90 (if you believe in measurements. Some don't, so don't flame me lol).

What amp are you using, and are you running SE out, or balanced? Have you turned bluetooth OFF, in the menu settings? Also what input cables are you using? If running balanced consider the benchmark xlr cables they are dead silent.

If noise and pops are your issue, the D90 shouldn't be the issue, that is for sure, again that is assuming you believe in measurements.

 

[Baten]

The optical input is the lesser of the inputs on the D90

optical breaks all ground loops, though

 

[Brando]

Mine is coming on thursday according to dhs. Will report.

 

[newtophones07]

optical breaks all ground loops, though

Why do you have ground loops in your system. Balanced connection also eliminate that, if that issue is present.

 

[Baten]

Why do you have ground loops in your system. Balanced connection also eliminate that, if that issue is present.

USB grounding can sometimes be an issue. Optical will never have that since it has galvanic isolation inherently (transfers over light). So it is still a very good option, optical.

 

[Gippy]

Replying to the multiple Windows tweak suggestions (avoiding multiquote to prevent a wall of text):

I already did all this when I first got my iFi Micro iDSD Black Label two years ago. Here's everything I did, including some things that were not suggested:

• Went into device manager, selected every USB hub, and disabled "allow the computer to turn off this device to save power"
• Went to power settings and disabled "USB selective suspend"
• Set minimum processor state to 100%, forcing my CPU to run at maximum clock speed all the time
• Changed ports from USB 3.0 to 2.0
• Removed all other USB devices from my computer, including the mouse, just to see if the mouse was the culprit
• Unplugged the USB front panel connector from my motherboard
• Tried various other USB cables and borrowed some more expensive ones, some with double ferrite chokes, some without

Absolutely none of these fixed the popping-a-few-seconds-after-playback issue I had with the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label. But downloading and applying the 5.1b firmware to disable the unit's sleep mode did it. By forcing the unit to remain active all the time, I heard no popping whatsoever.

I think it's absolutely silly that Topping has programmed their USB drivers to sleep a few seconds after playback. It's a good way to conserve power for portable DACs, but the D90 is a desktop DAC. My guess is that Topping just uses universal drivers for all of their models, and didn't care to make special drivers for the D90. If iFi can fix it, so can Topping, but it'd have to be at the driver level rather than at the firmware level. Until the Topping D90's USB implementation is fixed, I'm sticking with optical input.

 

[KenMan85]

I have a D90, and even when using iems, I have never heard noises like that. I have a wireworld, supra, cheap amazon basics and an oxide silver USB and none exhibit the issues described.

The optical input is the lesser of the inputs on the D90 (if you believe in measurements. Some don't, so don't flame me lol).

What amp are you using, and are you running SE out, or balanced? Have you turned bluetooth OFF, in the menu settings? Also what input cables are you using? If running balanced consider the benchmark xlr cables they are dead silent.

If noise and pops are your issue, the D90 shouldn't be the issue, that is for sure, again that is assuming you believe in measurements.

How do you like the d 90 been considering it as an upgrade to my multibit on my jotunheim.

 

[newtophones07]

Replying to the multiple Windows tweak suggestions (avoiding multiquote to prevent a wall of text):

I already did all this when I first got my iFi Micro iDSD Black Label two years ago. Here's everything I did, including some things that were not suggested:

• Went into device manager, selected every USB hub, and disabled "allow the computer to turn off this device to save power"
• Went to power settings and disabled "USB selective suspend"
• Set minimum processor state to 100%, forcing my CPU to run at maximum clock speed all the time
• Changed ports from USB 3.0 to 2.0
• Removed all other USB devices from my computer, including the mouse, just to see if the mouse was the culprit
• Unplugged the USB front panel connector from my motherboard
• Tried various other USB cables and borrowed some more expensive ones, some with double ferrite chokes, some without

Absolutely none of these fixed the popping-a-few-seconds-after-playback issue I had with the iFi Micro iDSD Black Label. But downloading and applying the 5.1b firmware to disable the unit's sleep mode did it. By forcing the unit to remain active all the time, I heard no popping whatsoever.

I think it's absolutely silly that Topping has programmed their USB drivers to sleep a few seconds after playback. It's a good way to conserve power for portable DACs, but the D90 is a desktop DAC. My guess is that Topping just uses universal drivers for all of their models, and didn't care to make special drivers for the D90. If iFi can fix it, so can Topping, but it'd have to be at the driver level rather than at the firmware level. Until the Topping D90's USB implementation is fixed, I'm sticking with optical input.

The Topping device will wake and sleep with device. So maybe that is the issue with this complaint or issue from some users. You can turn this option off, along with turning off the bluetooth.

Also the drivers are basically the same as all the chinese manufacturers, Topping, SMSL, Fiio all use the same driver system from XMOS

It would help troubleshooting If folks would list the connection type and what amp is being used.

How do you like the d 90 been considering it as an upgrade to my multibit on my jotunheim.

Very different sound. The AK4499 chip and device implementation is significantly better than other AK designs imo. I don't think I want another AK device unless its a AK4999 vs 97, 93,90 etc. It is a very accurate, do the conversion job and get out the way performance. Your amp does more of the tuning with the D90. Some may find it too bright or non analog. The MB devices are far warmer, and are enjoyable for that reason. They don't have the resolution, require some dither protection. (imo, only) and if grounding is an issue, certainly would not be my choice. USB to USB the D90 is quieter and more resolving imo. I don't hav a Yggy, but I prefer the D90 over Gungnir MB and below. Just a personal preference.

The Jotunheim is a nice all in one. Do you have an amp? As amp pairing also matters with a dac as clean as the D90.

 

[KenMan85]

I use the jotunheim xlr out to my LCD-2C.

 

[Gippy]

The Topping device will wake and sleep with device. So maybe that is the issue with this complaint or issue from some users. You can turn this option off, along with turning off the bluetooth.

The sleep option in the menu only applies if the computer itself shuts off or goes to sleep, not if playback stops. So changing that does nothing.

It would help troubleshooting If folks would list the connection type and what amp is being used.

I have my specs in my sig, but to be more detailed: Intel 3.0 > 24AWG USB cable (thicker than the supplied 28AWG Topping cable) > Topping D90 > 16AWG XLR cables from Monoprice > iFi Pro iCAN > Grado GS3000e via XLR4 output

No, it's not the amp, because the amp does not click with other sources, and it doesn't click when the D90 is fed with optical input.

 

[prymortal]

http://www.tpdz.net/download V4.82
Just noticed there was an updated Asio driver.

Also for those unaware (or don't read the manual like me)
To enable Pure Dac Mode: You hold down the power/select button while turning on the main power switch in back. It brings up a menu which you set it to in there.