[Riccitone]

Not to go too far OT. No, it just gave me inspiration. The simpler Teradak was all I could afford then. It doesn't need any mods on input V on the TDA1543 chips. The huge caps they used in the chameleon are pure overkill.

My bad on pulling far out on this, and my apologies to the OP. But I might still pick up that little MUSE 1543 TDA dac just to get a taste of that sound. I think I found it for under $70?!? Or just that simpler Teradak. Many blessings and thanks!

 

[Contrails]

Just bought a D70S. Fabulous DAC. Sounds better over direct USB than USB-Singxer Su-1 - i2s to D70.

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

Just bought a D70S. Fabulous DAC. Sounds better over direct USB than USB-Singxer Su-1 - i2s to D70.

Interesting your report, did you test the i2s input of the D70s with or singxer su1 ??? Was there any difference in sound compared to the usb input???
I also have a D70s and I'm looking into buying a singxer su2 to connect to the dac's i2s input.

 

[Contrails]

Interesting your report, did you test the i2s input of the D70s with or singxer su1 ??? Was there any difference in sound compared to the usb input???
I also have a D70s and I'm looking into buying a singxer su2 to connect to the dac's i2s input.

Yes, I used the SU-1 as the USB to I2S converter (I2S input to the D70S) in comparison to just using the D70S (Laptop to USB input). I used it for a couple of songs and quickly reached the conclusion that I am selling the SU-1. It sounded closed and more dark (direct usb was more transparent/open sounding with bigger soundstage). I was using a Metrum Flint DAC 2 before which does not have USB input. The SU-1 didn't measure very well either on the ASR forums. I have had the SU-1 for almost three years (was using it as I2S input into a Holo Spring DAC lvl3).

The USB input in the D70S is really good IMO. If I were in your shoes, I would skip the SU-2. For me, it's adding more electrical equipment in the chain that is just gonna add more noise. I don't upsample and try to keep the processing to minimum.

 

[mBenPhoto]

Yes, I used the SU-1 as the USB to I2S converter (I2S input to the D70S) in comparison to just using the D70S (Laptop to USB input). I used it for a couple of songs and quickly reached the conclusion that I am selling the SU-1. It sounded closed and more dark (direct usb was more transparent/open sounding with bigger soundstage). I was using a Metrum Flint DAC 2 before which does not have USB input. The SU-1 didn't measure very well either on the ASR forums. I have had the SU-1 for almost three years (was using it as I2S input into a Holo Spring DAC lvl3).

The USB input in the D70S is really good IMO. If I were in your shoes, I would skip the SU-2. For me, it's adding more electrical equipment in the chain that is just gonna add more noise. I don't upsample and try to keep the processing to minimum.

That looks logical: what is not present in the original signal cannot be added by a downstream piece of electronics, which actually can impart a negative impact due to additional psu, circuitry and another cable in the middle.

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

Yes, I used the SU-1 as the USB to I2S converter (I2S input to the D70S) in comparison to just using the D70S (Laptop to USB input). I used it for a couple of songs and quickly reached the conclusion that I am selling the SU-1. It sounded closed and more dark (direct usb was more transparent/open sounding with bigger soundstage). I was using a Metrum Flint DAC 2 before which does not have USB input. The SU-1 didn't measure very well either on the ASR forums. I have had the SU-1 for almost three years (was using it as I2S input into a Holo Spring DAC lvl3).

The USB input in the D70S is really good IMO. If I were in your shoes, I would skip the SU-2. For me, it's adding more electrical equipment in the chain that is just gonna add more noise. I don't upsample and try to keep the processing to minimum.

I would like to know what your system (headphone or speaker) used in the comparison.
I have been using a USB Regen in my system for a long time and always with good results with all tested dacs (iFi iDAC2, Calyx 24/192, Gustard X16 and Topping D70s) and it is clear of the difference when I remove it in the signal path.
Now I intend to upgrade to the SU-2 or another USB interface to connect to the i2s input of the D70s because they say they have better sound quality.

 

[Contrails]

I would like to know what your system (headphone or speaker) used in the comparison.
I have been using a USB Regen in my system for a long time and always with good results with all tested dacs (iFi iDAC2, Calyx 24/192, Gustard X16 and Topping D70s) and it is clear of the difference when I remove it in the signal path.
Now I intend to upgrade to the SU-2 or another USB interface to connect to the i2s input of the D70s because they say they have better sound quality.

I am using a LCD-2F with a WA6SE amp. It’s a SE design amp so I am only using the RCA outputs from the DAC. The RCA cables are pure silver cables and only 20cm long. I have used different cables and yes I have heard a difference. The D70S is set to RCA output only and Bluetooth is off. It’s in DAC only mode. Audirvana studio on Mac helping with the source duties.

The Su-1 was using a very short HDMI high speed data cable to input i2S into the D70S.

My previous system was a Stax SR007 mk1 with a custom tube amp and the Holo spring DAC Lvl3 with the SU-1. I sold this to fund a Vinyl setup. Then a couple of years later (start of this year) decided to get back into headphones. After owning the SR007 and HD800S before that, I have realised that the law of diminishing returns is way too understated in this industry. Now if I don’t hear a difference (improvement) straight away - it was a waste.

YMMV.

 

[Riccitone]

I own a Topping D70S since March 2021 and over the following months compared it vs other dacs, some owned and some borrowed, including the Topping D90.

Some background and context.

I bought the D70S having being adviced by a friend, who designs and builds top level tube amps. All the tests and comparisons have been made both blind and "subjective", with matched levels and same test tracks (I can provide the list), in my friend's reference system (Bladelius Embla server/dac, 4 chassis tube pre + power, Avantgarde speakers) and my personal system (Macbook Pro/Audirvana, MBL custom pre + power, Dynaudio Special Forty speakers). I help my friend when he tunes amps and systems, and we always follow the same evaluation procedure.

I am convinced that it is quite difficult to triangulate a dac performance from other people's comments, as it is influenced by listeners' tastes and, mainly, by dac's synergy with the existing system: in other words, what works for me in my (somewhat unforgiving but greatly musical) system may not work for anyone else.

Both mine and my friends' D70S were tested side by side the following dacs (I was present at all tests):

- Bladelius Embla (my friend's reference, although he added the D70S downstream via AES EBU bypassing the internal Embla dac)
- Soncoz SGD1 (owned)
- Schiit Yggdrasil A1 Unison (borrowed)
- Denafrips Pontus I, original DSP card (borrowed)
- Musician Pegasus (owned)
- Topping D90 (borrowed)

Compared to the D90, the D70s is more extended and "present" in the bass region (tested with piano octaves); going upwards the D90 tends to show some "stridency" in the upper midrange / treble areas. The D70S results more "musical" and "harmonic" than the D90, with a stereo image more extended on the three axis, while the D90 sounds more two-dimensional. On resolving power, both are in the same ballpark, but the D90 brings a hint of listening fatigue with some materials due to its upper registers performance.

As an additional anecdote, both the two friends/clients attending the test, each owning a D90, bought the D70S after the test.

In case of interest for the other comparisons, here some quick notes:

vs Bladelius Embla (a 13.000 Euros beast): I personally prefer the majestic musicality of the Embla, but it resolves less details than the D70S (my "tube friend" actually bypassed the Embla's dac permanently);

vs Soncoz SGD1: no contest with the D70S, as the SGD1 is anemic in the bass region, shows excessive "grit" in the voice region, particularly with male voices, and has an inferior resolving power (choirs are "muddled", whereas the D70S pinpoints every head);

vs Yggdrasil: the Schiit is comparable to the D70S in the bass region, shows better midrange and voices realism, but has a very intrusive and annoying upper midrange - treble sort of enhancement (think about a constant tizz - tizz - tizz in rock tracks). Outside that intrusive treble, I would consider the Yggdrasil overall better than the D70S, but the upper register invasivity was the deal breaker. Looking forward to audition the newly released "Less is more";

vs Pontus I: another "no contest", the Denafrips sounding "bunched in the middle", with undefined bass and a "disembodied" and "cavernous" performance with female voices (more on that with the Pegasus). An easy win for the D70S, although I have the itch to buy the Pontus II after my brief ownership of the Pegasus;

vs Musician Pegasus: the Pegasus started badly, needing 300 hours of burn in before ironing out. But its fundamentals did not change: compared to the D70S, Pegasus' transients are "slower", resulting in less perceived details and a bass region which has body but lacks contours. In a few words, the Pegasus "paints" whereas the D70S "sculpts”, so to speak. The Pegasus is very good with some male voices but, like the Pontus I, gives some female voices (Patricia Barber) a "recessed" character. Some female voices (Laura Fygi) are hair-raising, though. Pegasus upper midrange and treble are softer than in the D70S, more pleasant in a way. In the end, the D70S is more "engaging" with 90% of music. Since I hate switching dacs according to what I listen, the Pegasus went away. Those considerations made me think about the Pontus II.

I understand the initial inquiry was about D70S vs D90, and I added more - probably too much.

Personally, I consider the D70S one of the best "affordable" d/s dacs available. Its Achilles heel can be a sometimes "pointy" upeer register tones - which can also be dependant on materials played, tweeter or anything in between.

Happy to explain and discuss further.

M

I keep coming back to your excellent comparisons...I'm still in the consideration mode! Trying not to feel the pressure with prices likely increasing soon. But (not to belabor this) would you say that for being a d/s dac, it could also rest well in the company of some of these r2r (or multibit) DACs from a tonal character/richness standpoint? Still some say that it would sound "flat" by comparison. But so much of the sound is a product of the output circuitry, not just the chips. Even if the AKM's are d/s....

 

[mBenPhoto]

I keep coming back to your excellent comparisons...I'm still in the consideration mode! Trying not to feel the pressure with prices likely increasing soon. But (not to belabor this) would you say that for being a d/s dac, it could also rest well in the company of some of these r2r (or multibit) DACs from a tonal character/richness standpoint? Still some say that it would sound "flat" by comparison. But so much of the sound is a product of the output circuitry, not just the chips. Even if the AKM's are d/s....

After many comparisons, I came to the conclusion that - in the range of the affordable dacs - the D70S is quite a unique proposition. I cannot figure out how Topping came out with that design, also given how harsh sounding is their flagship D90 in comparison. Probably my “tube designer” friend is right when supposing that the Linn Climax design inspired the D70S (current design regulators, dual mono chips, no i/v conversion stage, selected output op-amps). A stroke of luck on Topping side, which they failed to capitalize being focused on the D90.

Of course there are “better” dacs than the D70S, also given that synergy with own system and music materials strongly influence the perceived performance. But based on comparisons made by myself and some friends, the D70S knocks the door of more expensive designs, the 2,5K Yggdrasil being so far the only serious challenger - assuming its aggressive top end is appreciated.

Up to, and including, the upper midrange, the D70S has a tonal density (i.e. richness of harmonics and melodics) that looks outside the typical D/S “all in one chip” offerings and actually was more musical (in the “2 channel” system way) than dedicated R2R designs as the Denafrips Pontus and Musician Pegasus. In a few words, the D70S was more “engaging” while being able to convey the specific “timbre” of instruments. Probably the Pegasus had some unique “hair raising” quality with specific recordings matching its 800-1500 Hz character, but that was the exception, not the rule.

Where the D70S shows its D/S heritage is in the upper midrange and treble areas, which are on average “pointier”, or slightly more strident / shouted, than in the two R2R I tested (but still much gentler than in the Yggdrasil). That can translate into more “sibilants” in recordings that have sibilants and sometimes enhanced high octaves (piano, violin), compared to the Pegasus.

How much that feature can bother depends on many factors, like system tonal signature, tweeters, usb cable and also music. Sarasate’s Carmen Fantasy can sound smoother with the Pegasus, without the occasional piercing note, but with the D70S the individual ”angles of attack” of the bow can be easily detected, giving form and presence to the performer.

It’s personal to decide what is best. For me, engagement and realism matter most.

M

 

[Contrails]

Well said mBenPhoto.

I was using a Metrum Flint DAC2 before. And until I heard the D70S, I didn’t realise the Metrum was rolled off in the highs. The bass is a little muddy in comparison. Soundstage and imaging is constricted. Definitely hearing more details and textures in the instruments and voices. There are songs which I have heard so many times and then suddenly hearing new instruments or back ground singers was quite the relevation. And I am using the RCA outputs! For the price this DAC is going for, I think it’s a steal.

I always thought that DACs were just different flavours/filters of sound so to speak. But after getting the D70S and hearing the changes, I am a believer that DACs do make a difference. I tried some MQA files and they did sound more open but I have read that they are just brightened up to make it seem to sound more open.

My biggest concern going from a R2R DAC to this was losing that flow that R2R have. And I think this is where the filters help a lot. Filter 5 can sound harsh in the top end but seems to have faster transients/sound. Filter 6 is what I am trying out at the moment. Sounds natural and smoother especially in the highs. To me this is very close to the R2R sound.

As I mentioned earlier, I am using RCA outputs and my amp has a major ground loop hum. I am looking at upgrading to a balanced amp so I think this DAC is still being held back at the moment.

 

[Rinaldi Moreira]

Well said mBenPhoto.

I was using a Metrum Flint DAC2 before. And until I heard the D70S, I didn’t realise the Metrum was rolled off in the highs. The bass is a little muddy in comparison. Soundstage and imaging is constricted. Definitely hearing more details and textures in the instruments and voices. There are songs which I have heard so many times and then suddenly hearing new instruments or back ground singers was quite the relevation. And I am using the RCA outputs! For the price this DAC is going for, I think it’s a steal.

I always thought that DACs were just different flavours/filters of sound so to speak. But after getting the D70S and hearing the changes, I am a believer that DACs do make a difference. I tried some MQA files and they did sound more open but I have read that they are just brightened up to make it seem to sound more open.

My biggest concern going from a R2R DAC to this was losing that flow that R2R have. And I think this is where the filters help a lot. Filter 5 can sound harsh in the top end but seems to have faster transients/sound. Filter 6 is what I am trying out at the moment. Sounds natural and smoother especially in the highs. To me this is very close to the R2R sound.

As I mentioned earlier, I am using RCA outputs and my amp has a major ground loop hum. I am looking at upgrading to a balanced amp so I think this DAC is still being held back at the moment.

I confess that the first hours with the D70s were not so pleasant, initially I found the sound very smooth and no details. After 100 hours of burn in the sound improved but it still wasn't enough to surpass my previous dac, a Calyx 24/192 that has a Sabre 9018, with that I was testing other filters and searching the topping website I saw that the D70s actually it only has 4 different filters, as filters 1 and 3 have the same response, the same happens with filters 2 and 4.

The dac comes configured with filter 3, I tested the 4 and it sounded better, then I tested the filter 5 and it was what I liked the most so far, because it has naturalness but at the same time details and speed of the saber. I was curious about filter 6, I will test it and then let me know my impressions of it.

PS: the sound of the D70s improves a lot with 200 hours of burn in, after this period it easily surpassed the Calyx that it had before.

 

[mBenPhoto]

I confess that the first hours with the D70s were not so pleasant, initially I found the sound very smooth and no details. After 100 hours of burn in the sound improved but it still wasn't enough to surpass my previous dac, a Calyx 24/192 that has a Sabre 9018, with that I was testing other filters and searching the topping website I saw that the D70s actually it only has 4 different filters, as filters 1 and 3 have the same response, the same happens with filters 2 and 4.



The dac comes configured with filter 3, I tested the 4 and it sounded better, then I tested the filter 5 and it was what I liked the most so far, because it has naturalness but at the same time details and speed of the saber. I was curious about filter 6, I will test it and then let me know my impressions of it.

PS: the sound of the D70s improves a lot with 200 hours of burn in, after this period it easily surpassed the Calyx that it had before.

I can confirm that the D70S subtly evolved in the first three months of use.

That’s common with almost all dacs: I owned the Musician Pegasus for a couple months, out of the box it sounded poorly with strange distortions in higher tones, it took 300 hours to stabilize (and needed to stay almost always on with signal flowing in). The flip side is that people usually do not allow “burn in” probably because it would go beyond the return window, so that dacs are not judged at their best.

I appreciate your experiments and suggestions with the D70S filters. I use #4 based on the advise of my “tube designer friend”, who tuned my system up to its hidden corners. Personally, I have been so far unable to detect differences, but based on your findings I will try to focus on what you highlighted.

Best,

M

ps - bring the burn-in issue to ASR and you get skewered …

 

[bouscadie]

the 70S seems to be very attractive! to stay in its feeling, which good company with which headphone amp / preamp?

 

[sajunky]

That’s common with almost all dacs: I owned the Musician Pegasus for a couple months, out of the box it sounded poorly with strange distortions in higher tones, it took 300 hours to stabilize (and needed to stay almost always on with signal flowing in). The flip side is that people usually do not allow “burn in” probably because it would go beyond the return window, so that dacs are not judged at their best.

This is common for R2R DACs. When a device has femto clocks, changes are observed even longer.

Something I have to say, not defending ASR. Measurements do not change much over the time (if at all). It is because result are averaged, completely missing what happens during transitions. It is why let ASR do measurements, I have my own ears. The only things I would request is when there are important production changes comparing to the sample provided by a vendor for testing, it should be re-tested. Topping D30 as tested on ASR was a different to the production models, each generation carried cheaper components, people have demanded re-testing, it hasn't been done. In result my D30 rests on the bottom of a drawer and Amir do not do tear-down tests anymore. It is so bad that I even suspect fake opamps among reported things.

 

[Contrails]

https://www.audeze.com/blogs/techno...lem-with-frequency-graphs-and-eq-compensation

I like Audeze’s take on this. And going back to the D70S, it measures good and sounds good. Whereas the D90 measures well but doesn’t sound as good (reading the reviews).