![0227211105_HDR[1].jpg](https://cdn.head-fi.org/a/11441897.jpg)
I feel you... I have a htpc with a 4770k and gtx1070, a 250w projector lamp, a 9channel avr, 4 separate power amps in an 12' x 15' room, and soon 2 ultra isolators, in south florida... suprisingly the electric bill isnt to high xD
Topaz Low-Capacitance Isolation Transformers - for Affordably Clean Power
- Thread starter zilch0md
- Start date
Surprising you haven't melted and are able to reply in forums unexhausted! MAN that's a real test of character hahaha.
http://www.surplussales.com/Transformers/Pdfs/tp-91092-31_N.pdf
Look under the “Extreme Transverse-Mode Noise” section for capacitor sizing considerations.
Ok let me do the math.
be back next year xD
be back next year xD
Well it worked and it worked really well.
Added the following:
-Topaz 91001-41 for the AVR, 2 channel amplifier(for 2 height channels), 3 mono amplifiers(2 subwoofers, 1 tactile transducer system), and the fiber transmitters psu(jameco 12v1a lps)
-Topaz 91095-32 for the projector
-VH Audio Flavor 4 cabling to the projector and AVR
-Atlona AT-HDR-EX-70-2PS ethernet hdmi extender between the HTPC and AVR, transmitter powered by a jamevo 5v1a regulated lps, receiver powered by an Uptone Ultracap LPS at 7v with the ground shunted smps and Canare 4s8 dc cable. The ultracap and uptone smps are necessary to break all leakage.
-AV Access 4KEX300-F om3 fiber hdmi extender between the AVR and projector. transmitter powered by a jamevo 12v1a regulated lps, receiver powered by an Uptone Ultracap LPS at 12v with the ground shunted smps and Canare 4s8 dc cable. The ultracap isnt required for leakage loops here because of the optical connection.
-Replaced front left/right and center speaker wire from bargain 16awg to canare 4s8.
Audio(Denon X4200W and Polk LSIMs):
Sibilance gone, prodigous bass, immediately had to turn the subs down, extension is better? how thats possible is beyond me, i would use a loudness eq curve(denon dynamic eq) to get better bass extension and had to turn it off. imaging is just incredible, overhead localization is much more pronounced. Atmos content is just unreal now. Voices are so much more natural, as I said there was heavy sibilance with the polks, and female voices had a very boomy quality, all alleviated. Music sounded meh before now it sounds more or less perfect for the hardware used.
Video(Benq W1070, 1080p60hz rgb full signal)
Lower black level(i think more just a noise free image makes the blacks more solid and appear lower), better shadow detail, better bit depth, colors, and sharpness, image is significantly more stable, easier to focus on, incredible really. I was very curious what the effects on video would be, being limited to an idea of a washed out image with less than perfect signal integrity. Really looking forward to a 4k projector with a better lense now.
So ya... any surround sound enthusiasts and tinkerers out there, putting your AVR and display on a line noise suppressor, isolating from a htpc with a fiber hdmi extender(or ethernet with ultracap lps and uptone smps), providing excellent signal integrity and ultra clean power makes a huge difference, despite not using audiophile class a nonfeedback current signal amplifiers ;]
Added the following:
-Topaz 91001-41 for the AVR, 2 channel amplifier(for 2 height channels), 3 mono amplifiers(2 subwoofers, 1 tactile transducer system), and the fiber transmitters psu(jameco 12v1a lps)
-Topaz 91095-32 for the projector
-VH Audio Flavor 4 cabling to the projector and AVR
-Atlona AT-HDR-EX-70-2PS ethernet hdmi extender between the HTPC and AVR, transmitter powered by a jamevo 5v1a regulated lps, receiver powered by an Uptone Ultracap LPS at 7v with the ground shunted smps and Canare 4s8 dc cable. The ultracap and uptone smps are necessary to break all leakage.
-AV Access 4KEX300-F om3 fiber hdmi extender between the AVR and projector. transmitter powered by a jamevo 12v1a regulated lps, receiver powered by an Uptone Ultracap LPS at 12v with the ground shunted smps and Canare 4s8 dc cable. The ultracap isnt required for leakage loops here because of the optical connection.
-Replaced front left/right and center speaker wire from bargain 16awg to canare 4s8.
Audio(Denon X4200W and Polk LSIMs):
Sibilance gone, prodigous bass, immediately had to turn the subs down, extension is better? how thats possible is beyond me, i would use a loudness eq curve(denon dynamic eq) to get better bass extension and had to turn it off. imaging is just incredible, overhead localization is much more pronounced. Atmos content is just unreal now. Voices are so much more natural, as I said there was heavy sibilance with the polks, and female voices had a very boomy quality, all alleviated. Music sounded meh before now it sounds more or less perfect for the hardware used.
Video(Benq W1070, 1080p60hz rgb full signal)
Lower black level(i think more just a noise free image makes the blacks more solid and appear lower), better shadow detail, better bit depth, colors, and sharpness, image is significantly more stable, easier to focus on, incredible really. I was very curious what the effects on video would be, being limited to an idea of a washed out image with less than perfect signal integrity. Really looking forward to a 4k projector with a better lense now.
So ya... any surround sound enthusiasts and tinkerers out there, putting your AVR and display on a line noise suppressor, isolating from a htpc with a fiber hdmi extender(or ethernet with ultracap lps and uptone smps), providing excellent signal integrity and ultra clean power makes a huge difference, despite not using audiophile class a nonfeedback current signal amplifiers ;]
Dang Zen, I've always wondered how putting video into ISO would be. I imagine a crisp and refined image with great detail just as you described! I'd really need to do a test run with my 2 Topaz for my 2 computer monitors.
My 91001-31 came in! The seller wrapped the hell out of it and it took me a good 10 minutes just to get it free! Styrofoam, MILES of cardboard and saran wrap. Super glad and excited but the only problem is there is no grounding! My little iFi AC purifiers let me know by showing no grounding on the units.
This is the tricky part especially for a beginner in electronics... How can I set this up for grounding to provide my computer and other components with full benefit?
My 91001-31 came in! The seller wrapped the hell out of it and it took me a good 10 minutes just to get it free! Styrofoam, MILES of cardboard and saran wrap. Super glad and excited but the only problem is there is no grounding! My little iFi AC purifiers let me know by showing no grounding on the units.
This is the tricky part especially for a beginner in electronics... How can I set this up for grounding to provide my computer and other components with full benefit?
The ground looks like its connected to the whole chain but my ifi ac purifier is saying noooo 
Thats wired with a floating neutral secondary that could be what the ifi is reading. You can double check continuity of the ground through the unit by touching the probes of a meter to the ground pin of the plug and the electrical box, case, and ground pin socket of the receptacles. vn unit btw that should be plug n play just double check ground continuity first and then plug it it and measure voltage on the secondary
Aha!~ So it would be best to connect the ground to the neutral on the secondary side!
I couldnt say if it would be best, but on all 4 of my units in use I didn't. But if you did thats when you would need a gfci.
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Posts
- 5,494
- Likes
- 1,084
It's importamt that you understand the context for which the narrator of that video is concerned. He works at a test bench, often with energized circuits in an exposed chasis where there is a high probability of unintentenionaly electrocuting himself by simultaneouesly touching both hot and neutral. Guys who work with energized, open equipment NEED isolation transformers with a floating-neutral secondary.
Hospital staff and their patients, audiophiles, and the public at large almost never have both hands stuck into an open chasis that's energized, right? The probability of somehow touching hot and neutral simultaneously while handling closed components that are UL or CE certified, is extremely low. But there is a slight chance that hot could short to the closed case of a device while you're touching it and in THAT context you WANT the protection of a grounded-neutral secondary - the same as in hospitals, adhering to electrical codes.
All IT transformers made for applications OTHER THAN test benches, where solder monkeys do things like sticking oscilloscope probes into energized, open equipment, have grounded-neutral secondaries, just the way the guy in the video found his factory fresh Topaz. That's why it's easy to find a lot if videos where electronics techs explain how to CONVERT an IT made for general purpose applications (grounded-neutral secondaries) into ITs that are much safer for THEIR purposes (floating the secondary.)
We should be doing the same as the hospitals do for our audio gear - using ITs with grounded-neutral secondaries. There are two exceptions, however: 1) When you want to prevent a source that has a DAC from backwashing noise onto the mains, polluting other gear in your chain or 2) You want to prevent a component that uses a SMPS from backwashing noise onto the mains - you can give each such component its very own IT, with a floating-neutral ground, but to be safe from the possibility of an internal short to the cabinet, you should install a GFCI between the output of the floating-neutral secondary and the noisy load AND you should NEVER plug more than one device into an IT that has a floating-neutral secondary - for safety and to prevent the backwash noise of one component from entering another that's sharing tha same transformer's output.
Do your homework, but always strive to understand the context from which someone is teaching anything about grounded vs. floating neutral secondaries.
Kill the noise, not yourself!
Last edited:
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Posts
- 5,494
- Likes
- 1,084
Just wanna add this here too, as Johns recommendation is to use a floating neutral secondary with all electrically connected components on filterless distribution to reduce impedance of the connected devices and keep noise from leakage loops to a minimum. The transformer is meant to provide conditioning and surge suppression in that situation.
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...sformers/page/12/?tab=comments#comment-599055
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/...sformers/page/12/?tab=comments#comment-599055
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2007
- Posts
- 5,494
- Likes
- 1,084
Yes, there are at least three schools of thoughts, here:
1) Use nothing but grounded-neutral secondary ITs (ideally, just one big one with all component power cords plugged into outlets that are as close together as possible, sourced from that one ITs secondary).
2) Use nothing but floating-neutral secondary ITs (with each component getting its own IT, 1:1, and nothing upstream but a power strip from the mains).
3) Use a mix (as I do), with the floating-neutral secondary ITs deployed 1:1 only for stopping backwwash noise from DACs and SMSPs components, but with everything (whether it has its own floating IT or not) plugged into a single, higher-capacity grounded-neutral secondary IT. (See my big diagram in the first post of this thread.)
In the end, none of these configurations pose as great arisk as standing barefooted on a mountain top during a thunder storm or perhaps even driving a car to work each day.
.
So, you have to ask, "What's my goal?" The absence of that ground shunt on the secondary's neutral certainly does stop anything and everything from backwashing onto other gear, as long as every "backwashing" component has its very own IT. Common-mode noise is greatly reduced by both types of ITs, affecting a frequency range that increases as the pF rating decreases; thus, our quest for 0.0005 pF, model -31 and -32 Topaz ITs and their siblings.
Without hesitation, I defer to the expertise of John Swenson in these matters, but I can't find fault wiith someone choosing to stick with national safety codes. If you go back to my big diagram in the first post to this thread, you can see that I use a blend of the two types, beginning with a grounded-neutral secondary IT at the mains and branching from there. I have to confess, however, that I'm not using GFCIs anywhere. So, call me "conflicted," when it comes to SQ vs. safety. But again, what are the odds of a UL-certified component with an unopened metal chassis suddenly being "hot" while you're touching it? Thus, if the goal is hardcore audiophilia, walk in John Swenson's footsteps and trust that he doesn'tt want to get electrocuted, either.
That said, I can still respect people who choose to adhere to national safety codes. They will enjoy a lot of common-mode noise reduction and surge protection, too, albeit without completely "isolating" each component from backwash noise (DACs and SMPS) or loop currents.
Is one school of thought better than another? That's for each of us to decide.
1) Use nothing but grounded-neutral secondary ITs (ideally, just one big one with all component power cords plugged into outlets that are as close together as possible, sourced from that one ITs secondary).
2) Use nothing but floating-neutral secondary ITs (with each component getting its own IT, 1:1, and nothing upstream but a power strip from the mains).
3) Use a mix (as I do), with the floating-neutral secondary ITs deployed 1:1 only for stopping backwwash noise from DACs and SMSPs components, but with everything (whether it has its own floating IT or not) plugged into a single, higher-capacity grounded-neutral secondary IT. (See my big diagram in the first post of this thread.)
In the end, none of these configurations pose as great arisk as standing barefooted on a mountain top during a thunder storm or perhaps even driving a car to work each day.
. So, you have to ask, "What's my goal?" The absence of that ground shunt on the secondary's neutral certainly does stop anything and everything from backwashing onto other gear, as long as every "backwashing" component has its very own IT. Common-mode noise is greatly reduced by both types of ITs, affecting a frequency range that increases as the pF rating decreases; thus, our quest for 0.0005 pF, model -31 and -32 Topaz ITs and their siblings.
Without hesitation, I defer to the expertise of John Swenson in these matters, but I can't find fault wiith someone choosing to stick with national safety codes. If you go back to my big diagram in the first post to this thread, you can see that I use a blend of the two types, beginning with a grounded-neutral secondary IT at the mains and branching from there. I have to confess, however, that I'm not using GFCIs anywhere. So, call me "conflicted," when it comes to SQ vs. safety.
But again, what are the odds of a UL-certified component with an unopened metal chassis suddenly being "hot" while you're touching it? Thus, if the goal is hardcore audiophilia, walk in John Swenson's footsteps and trust that he doesn'tt want to get electrocuted, either. That said, I can still respect people who choose to adhere to national safety codes. They will enjoy a lot of common-mode noise reduction and surge protection, too, albeit without completely "isolating" each component from backwash noise (DACs and SMPS) or loop currents.
Is one school of thought better than another? That's for each of us to decide.
Does it matter to ground the neutral on the secondary side VS down the AC cable line at the receptacle?
Users who are viewing this thread
