[ScarlettD]

So it depends on the music genre itself I suppose... hmmm

 

[ScarlettD]

So it all depends on the music? hmmm

 

[Lavcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif See my later posts. I'm not familiar with every single kind of sound card out there - I'll admit that up front. There are always exceptions to every rule, too, of course! However, 100V seems unbelievable unless you had a separate connector to the AC mains, or some sort of onboard transformer, AC/buck-boost circuit. At the very least, it would seem deficient in current ability in that scenario. Even in the case with +or- 10V rails, there has to be some sort of buck-boost voltage booster in the circuit, IMHO. These are very tough to tame to the standards of linear-regulated power supplies for headphone amps, where the ripple is sometimes down to the single digits in microvolts. I think Dr. Xin was the only one able to do it well on a regular basis with his very tiny portable amps. I don't disagree with this, but likely there will be entire sections of music not even heard. You won't even know what you're missing. Again, that's sort of the point of this whole thread and one my earlier post was trying to support.

We were driving a piezoelectric transducer from our card. We didn't need much current. My point was you can design pretty much whatever supply voltage your application requires.

I agree that for an audio amplifier, in principle, I would prefer a high quality linear supply, but use of a well designed switching supply should not equate to "entire sections of music not even heard."

If I understood your original post that I quoted, you were making the argument that a sound card could not reproduce the loudness necessary for "high-fidelity". "This is physically impossible for a sound card to provide!" I provided a counter example to show that a sound card can easily drive 300 ohm Senns well beyond the threshold of pain. At not close to full volume. This is not theoretical. Bringing up quality differences between linear and switching supplies is sort of a red herring, as it has nothing to do with the argument in your original post.

Please note I am not claiming that my modded $250 sound card compares to your typical $2500 amplifier.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScarlettD /img/forum/go_quote.gif So it depends on the music genre itself I suppose... hmmm

If you're posting about dynamic range, it depends on the recording more than the genre. I have classical recordings that are poorly recorded. Some audiophile mastered rock has good dynamic range.

 

[leveller1642]

I must admit I've been really enjoying my HD-600s powered by a Pico amp for the past couple of months. A 2009 ipod classic with ALAC is my source.

 

[evilking]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomb /img/forum/go_quote.gif Many of us do not believe that the typical soundcard or portable player even has the physical design to provide that kind of leverage...

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't arguing against this point. Earlier in the thread I agreed with roker that ALL cans need well powered amps to shine, it just doesn't matter where the amp is, dap/soundcard/kid's toy. The basic design of portable players prevent them powering anything correctly (or at least manufacturers choose not to). I just saw 115db, PCs run on 5 volts, peak/rms voltage error, and brought the hammer down

.


Where we disagree is the part in bold. No, I haven't heard the STX or HP-omega-whatever, but I'm not going to dismiss it because it's a soundcard.


EK

 

[pippothegreat]

I have owned a pair of Grado RS2i's for a couple of weeks now and have just ordered Audio-GD's latest toy, the "Fun" DAC/AMP combo. You think it's safe to say that since my Grado's are 32ohms and the HD650's are 300ohms that maybe the Grado's really don't need an amp at all to properly power them? I got the "fun" because it's a DAC as well as an amp and I believe the DAC section will be more useful to my grado's then the amp will.

P.S. We should really be focusing on what is the most important aspect of this great hobby of ours and that is the beautiful sound of music. DAC's, amps, cables, tubes/solid state, Ohms, charts and numbers is only a bridge to achieve a better sound, but in the end it's music that makes our heads bob up and down and not a 500$ cable! Now if you guys don't mind I'm going to go enjoy the sweet sound of my Grado's and let you guys battle it out with the physics talk

 

[adrift]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lavcat /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please note I am not claiming that my modded $250 sound card compares to your typical $2500 amplifier.

Just out of curiosity, what sound card is this, and how was it modded? I may have missed that somewhere. And if it can't compare to a $2500 amp, what can it easily compare to? I don't doubt you for a second, I'm just surprised I haven't heard more people using soundcards rather than amps... but then, I suppose that may have something to do with some folks apprehension in using a computer as a source...?

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pippothegreat /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have owned a pair of Grado RS2i's for a couple of weeks now and have just ordered Audio-GD's latest toy, the "Fun" DAC/AMP combo. You think it's safe to say that since my Grado's are 32ohms and the HD650's are 300ohms that maybe the Grado's really don't need an amp at all to [size=small]properly power[/size] them? I got the "fun" because it's a DAC as well as an amp and I believe the DAC section will be more useful to my grado's then the amp will.

After just trying mine with and without amp'ing, I have to say no, it's not safe to say that and that you need an amp to properly power them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pippothegreat /img/forum/go_quote.gif P.S. We should really be focusing on what is the most important aspect of this great hobby of ours and that is the beautiful sound of music. DAC's, amps, cables, tubes/solid state, Ohms, charts and numbers is only a bridge to achieve a better sound, but in the end it's music that makes our heads bob up and down and not a 500$ cable! Now if you guys don't mind I'm going to go enjoy the sweet sound of my Grado's and let you guys battle it out with the physics talk

Beautiful music sounds that much better when better rendered and reproduced. It's that much better when we hear it with the fidelity intended and in the most natural way. This is what us audiophiles are about. Justifying in this way, mediocre sound from a can capable of a lot more is a copout now, isn't it?

 

[dclancy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe a sticky thread on which cans NEED amps.

NO! No more stickys! Tired of scrolling half a page just to get to new content on my laptop.

 

[Lavcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrift /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just out of curiosity, what sound card is this, and how was it modded? I may have missed that somewhere. And if it can't compare to a $2500 amp, what can it easily compare to? I don't doubt you for a second, I'm just surprised I haven't heard more people using soundcards rather than amps... but then, I suppose that may have something to do with some folks apprehension in using a computer as a source...?

The sound card I am using is the Auzentech HomeTheater. Our member ROBSCIX has a review of the card on guru3d: Auzentech X-Fi Home Theater HD 7.1 Soundcard review

The only modification was to replace the stock LM4562NA opamp with a pair of TI OPA627BP's. I would like to bias the 627's into class A but that has yet to be done.

I would expect to compare the $250 sound card to a $250 amp. The amp would need a case, volume control, and additional power supply components, of course, which a sound card being in a computer does not, but on the other hand the sound card has HDMI support circuitry that a headphone amp typically would not. The sound card also has to provide its own DAC. I think an equal cost comparison would be valid.

 

[adrift]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lavcat /img/forum/go_quote.gif The sound card I am using is the Auzentech HomeTheater. Our member ROBSCIX has a review of the card on guru3d: Auzentech X-Fi Home Theater HD 7.1 Soundcard review The only modification was to replace the stock LM4562NA opamp with a pair of TI OPA627BP's. I would like to bias the 627's into class A but that has yet to be done. I would expect to compare the $250 sound card to a $250 amp. The amp would need a case, volume control, and additional power supply components, of course, which a sound card being in a computer does not, but on the other hand the sound card has HDMI support circuitry that a headphone amp typically would not. The sound card also has to provide its own DAC. I think an equal cost comparison would be valid.

Awesome. Thank you for the link. I'm gonna check it out now. Do you think that this sound card would be able to power my 650s as well as my Little Dot MKIII which is comparably priced?

 

[vai-777]

Frankly I enjoy my HD800's (yes 800's) straight out of my Marantz CD5001. I have "auditioned some "highend" amps and they aren't worth the $$$$$. Hell I even listen to them out of my computer and ipod....and the bottom line is the 800's sound better through my "unamped sources" than the 600' or 650's on 4k amps...easy.

 

[haloxt]

There's some very cheap computer psu's with great power filtering such as antec earthwatts. And if you don't want non-essential components polluting the rest of your computer you can get an external power supply. Neither does fan have to be a serious issue if you are willing to buy quiet fans and a psu with a quiet fan (these can be rather pricey). I am using an external psu and a quiet computer fan to cool my audio rack and it has better noise/air movement ratio than any other noncomputer fan. Then you can wrap your computer internals and cables in ERS paper (ask patrick82 if he has spare scraps) and you will have an audiophile computer. Except I don't think there will ever be a sound card aimed at hd800 owners hehe.

 

[Lavcat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrift /img/forum/go_quote.gif Awesome. Thank you for the link. I'm gonna check it out now. Do you think that this sound card would be able to power my 650s as well as my Little Dot MKIII which is comparably priced?

I believe the Auzentech HomeTheater would power your 650's. Whether the sound would be as good as or better than Little Dot, I do not have the experience to say. I would like to know myself. I would think that the two would probably sound different.