Tinnitus

[sbtruitt]

The bad reputation of equalizers is just one of those audiophile prejudices we have to live with--one that borders on irrational.  Yes the old analog equalizers could be bad but what people did with those 31 sliders was even worse.  Today's digital equalization is a lot more benign since it can be done without introducing distortions and phase shifts, etc.  No reason not to do it.  What really amazes me here that some audiophiles seem to forget is that music is equalized when it's recorded and when it's mixed; it can be equalized at every step of the audio chain.  Live music at a concert goes through equalization too--many concert halls and almost all other venues have sound systems with equalization.  More amusing is the endless discussion in this forum about the non-linear amplitude responses of DACs, AMPs, and listening devices (see for example all the discussion of tube amps, V-shaped IEM curves, treble humps, bass bumps, etc).  Users buy kit that they know is not flat in order to produce a sound chain whose output is pleasing to them.  I have no problem with that if it makes them happy, but why not just equalize to produce the sound signature you like?  In fairness we have a lot of listeners around here that do that too.  It's common to use different pre-set or custom curves on different kinds of music.  That makes more sense to me.  And if I like an IEM or a can in every regard except it's treble is a bit flat for me, why not just bump it up with an equalizer?  
 
...   So no, I have nothing against equalization. I just may try equalizing myself back to a 30-year old's hearing one of these days.  Enough now.

 
+1 -  Having worked in live sound and and other audio work many moons ago, I have no problem EQing headphones to get the best sound for my ears. For my main listening stations, I have h/w 10 band/channel EQ's on both, and tweak the sound for the specific phones and my listening preferences. The distortion is way below hearing levels, and if you EQ in moderation, the benefits outweigh any perceived negatives.
 
As far as tinnitus, I am 60 and just started getting it last year mainly in one ear. I had it at a lower level due to age or maybe my headphone use, but I went to see a local band in a small room with metal ductwork overhead and the music which was way too loud - I left early but with ringing in my ears that never went away. I have yet to find a way to minimize it, except for listening to music, albeit at lower levels. I haven't heard of much that can be done about it from the research I have done. I'll have to check out the Tinnitus Pro app to see it it can help.

 

[chuckwheat]

I've had slight ear ringing for as long as i can remember throughout childhood. (18 now) It bothers me only when i let it. Otherwise I go days without noticing it. I'm not sure if it's tinnitus, but after loud noises, it can be annoying. I've found that my ears are more sensitive than most around me. I find i'm the only one covering my ears when a police car goes by or other things like that. I hope it doesn't escalate. :/ I love music and listening to high end music stuff.

 

[sbtruitt]

Yeah, sometimes I don't notice it until I notice it - I've made sure not to listen to any music too loud, and luckily it hasn't got worse over the last year.

 

[AudioBear]

Steve Ambrose, who claims to be the inventor of IEMs says the data show musicians who wear IEMs have much more frequent and greater hearing loss than those that don't wear them.  He claims that's what motivated him to get into a collaboration with a hearing research center to find a way to avoid the problem.  The explanation is that a sealed IEM will create the highest pressure of any sound transducer.  Moreover, there is a defense against the pressure in the ear in which an inner ear muscle tightens to protect the ear which lowers the apparent volume.  This in turn prompts the wearer to turn up the volume to compensate for the hearing loss.  Which in turn means listening at higher volumes and pressures which causes hearing loss.  The problem is progressive, the worse your hearing becomes, the more you turn up the volume and the more damage you do.  Their new earphones with ADEL technology are supposed to allow you to lower the volume leading to lower pressure and are supposed to sound incredibly spacious.  That's what they say.  I'll let you all know what mine sound like when I get them in a couple of weeks.  Both the claim of the best sound ever in a CIEM and the prevention of hearing loss remain to be proven.  I was going to buy some hi-end CIEMs anyway so this looked like a good choice.
 
To repsond to your statement about more talk about this on Head-Fi, I suspect most users know that high volumes can damage hearing.  Lacking evidence I suspect that many are pretty careful, but some are not.  Teenage boys and young men have that "i'm immortal and nothing can hurt me" attitude that leads to high volumes--they also love loud music.  A lot of young people today have been found to hearing worse than 70-year olds (I'm 72).  So yes, it is a subject that should be discussed.
 
I might add that something like 30-50% of us have or will develop at least temporary tinnitus.  It's pretty widespread.  You may have hear the expression that a tackle in football or some other physical contact "really rung his bell."  that's no joke, bells go off.  Sometimes they never stop.

It occurs to me that if there are dangers to hearing from long term use of IEM's this really needs more aknowledgement here on Headfi.
The received opinion on here seems to be that IEM's are preferable to earbuds as improved isolation encourages listening at lower volume.

 

[Spyro]

"Really loud music can hurt your ears" is nothing new, is common sense and has been around forever.  95% of the public uses open unsealed earbuds (like Apple) which don't have the inclusiveness you mention.
 
Heredity and duration of dB's are also factors.
 
If possible, just get your hearing checked every 2-3 years.  That would tell if you are running into trouble.

 

[AudioBear]

You are correct about usage being mostly earbuds, but high volumes can impair your hearing regardless of the source (ear buds, live music, machinery, whatever) so everyone needs to avoid long term high volume sound exposure.  The specific problem with IEMs it that being sealed they add pressure which ends up making you increase the volume and accelerate the loss.  But ordinary earbuds are what is making many young people today show up with major hearing losses.
 
Your advice to have your hearing checked every two years is very good, but the great majority of people don't do that either--in fact very few people have their hearing checked until the notice a problem which is really too bad.  Maybe that should be talked about more as well.
 
Most of us take our hearing for granted until it's too late....

 

[krismusic]

I agree most people are aware that loud listening risks hearing damage. I think that I may have been remiss in not realising that what I consider normal volume may well be too loud.
What I certainly have never heard before is this issue with pressure from IEM's causing damage.
When I first got into IEM's I asked if there was any risk from their use.
That is when I first read the reassuring trope that a sealed IEM allows for listening at lower volume and is therefore safer.
I may well start a thread about dangers to hearing from IEM use.
It seems that 1964 Ears are ahead of the curve here. Being alone in producing a product that acknowledges the problem.
I have just ordered a high end CIEM. I'm tempted to cancel the order.

 

[castleofargh]

I agree most people are aware that loud listening risks hearing damage. I think that I may have been remiss in not realizing that what I consider normal volume may well be too loud.
What I certainly have never heard before is this issue with pressure from IEM's causing damage.
When I first got into IEM's I asked if there was any risk from their use.
That is when I first read the reassuring trope that a sealed IEM allows for listening at lower volume and is therefore safer.
I may well start a thread about dangers to hearing from IEM use.
It seems that 1964 Ears are ahead of the curve here. Being alone in producing a product that acknowledges the problem.
I have just ordered a high end CIEM. I'm tempted to cancel the order.

yes and no. closed IEMs can deliver an ok signature and loudness because it's a closed. to do the same in a vented space would require a lot more energy, so while what they explain on the 1964 website is pretty much true and one of the solutions, it's mostly comparing apples and oranges. there is a reason why an IEM may be driven at 90db by maybe 0.02v. the actual energy is small, that's as explained, when our eardrum decides to increase it's dampening that we need to push the sound louder. if you listen to quiet music in the first place there is no problem.
some suggest that when we seal the IEM we put pressure inside the ear that doesn't get away, that's also true, but it's not so hard to pull on your ear a little to unseal and make sure you don't have a big remaining pressure from inserting the piece. all those stuff are legit problems, but nothing you can't take care off.
 
you can always get a vent on any custom you buy on request, but it will most likely kill your bass response(and isolation obviously). so then how do you get an ok bass response? by using something able to generate real bass, so something more powerful, something like a dynamic driver that can deliver even in open space. we turn around in circle and have now invented the earbud/headphone/speaker. ^_^
 
if you require both small stuff and isolation, then maybe the adel gizmo is a good solution. on paper it looks cool, but we would need to measure the IEM to know how much it distorts the sound.
else if you're concerned about the pressure in the ear from closed systems, don't get closed system!!!!!!!  get a good old headphone and if possible an open well vented one. or even better, speakers ^_^.  as always in audio we're dealing with compromises.

 

[RRod]

 
else if you're concerned about the pressure in the ear from closed systems, don't get closed system!!!!!!!  get a good old headphone and if possible an open well vented one. or even better, speakers ^_^.  as always in audio we're dealing with compromises.

 
I just hire a string quartet and tell them to play real delicate-like 

 

[krismusic]

if you require both small stuff and isolation, then maybe the adel gizmo is a good solution. on paper it looks cool, but we would need to measure the IEM to know how much it distorts the sound.
else if you're concerned about the pressure in the ear from closed systems, don't get closed system!!!!!!!  get a good old headphone and if possible an open well vented one. or even better, speakers ^_^.  as always in audio we're dealing with compromises.

My main requirement is for commuting. CIEMS are perfect.
Hopefully if I take your advice and pop the vacuum on the seal and keep the volume down I will be OK.
I cannot believe that the Adele is now the only game in town!

 

[krismusic]

A number of people on the Noble thread have said that their Tinnitus is not too badly affected by music. In my case certain frequencies seem to ring or resonate with the pitch of the whistling in my head. Becomes quite unpleasant.

 

[AudioBear]

That's bad and really unpleasant.  Is it volume dependent?  You mention certain frequencies, have you tested to see what they are? I think there are a couple of free apps that test your hearing and tinnitus on the iTunes app store like Tinnitus Measurer.  Search Tinnitus in apps and you'll see a whole lot of apps.  Maybe one deals with your kind of tinnitus.
 
As always, having a check-up at an audiologist and an ENT could be a good idea.
 
Music and conversation mask my tinnitus.  I guess I'm lucky. 

 

[sbtruitt]

Playing music for time, or being around alot of background noise makes mine worse.
Sometimes I can make it better by playing a single tone near the tinnitus tone I have.
 
FYI - an interesting site worth checking out: http://plasticity.szynalski.com/faq.htm 

 

[krismusic]

I don't think that it's volume dependant. I've been keeping the volume down.
I used Tinnitus Measurer and as far as I can tell the tone that I hear is around 3500k.
I've tweaked my EQ but it doesn't seem to help. It seems that certain guitar sounds in particular resonate.
A piece of advice that I have read on the Internet that makes a lot of sense to me is to check that there is no medical cause and then try to ignore it rather than focus on "cures". No offence meant to anyone who has found something that helps.
I intend to get checked out and see where I go from there.
I really hope to be able to continue enjoying listening to music in spite of this.

 

[Chodi]

A number of people on the Noble thread have said that their Tinnitus is not too badly affected by music. In my case certain frequencies seem to ring or resonate with the pitch of the whistling in my head. Becomes quite unpleasant.

That resonance you are talking about is from the newness. It will go away. You may still have the tinnitus but that feeling that it is ringing at certain frequencies goes away. I know this is hard at the beginning, but don't fixate on it that makes it worse.