Tidal Lossless Streaming

[HemiSam]

He'll build it up and sell it for a serious multiple.
 
 

 
HS

 

[toolio]

He will probably decide there is no money to be made in high-def streaming and reduce it to another 320 Spotify clone.

 

[voxie]

Maybe tidal can now upgrade their servers! 

 

[kennybobenny]

I just started using Tidal and I am impressed. For now I cannot stream from my player. I have the app on my my MBPR and I used my AK100 II as my DAC. Headphones are ATH-900X.
I have never been a fan of streaming but now I see this as an option to find new music.

 

[GG2068]

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[GG2068]

I got 2 out of 5 on the tidal hifi test.

Just saved myself $15. I only pay 5 for Spotify.

I find that test is not that good. I recommend getting the trial and listen to full song that you really know and compare.

I can hear a clear difference between Tidal and Spotify on my home stereo. Of course you have to have a decent HiFI system if not is not worth it and also Top Pop Charts song may not show a huge difference since they are so compressed.

 

[Wildcatsare1]

I find that test is not that good. I recommend getting the trial and listen to full song that you really know and compare.

I can hear a clear difference between Tidal and Spotify on my home stereo. Of course you have to have a decent HiFI system if not is not worth it and also Top Pop Charts song may not show a huge difference since they are so compressed.

+1, with my Grado PS500e on my portable rig, or even straight from my iPhone low rez Spotify sounds very unmusical, TIDAL sounds fantastic! Though I do listen to a lot of different types of music and older recordings, current pop doesn't interest me in the least.

 

[jl audio]

I find that test is not that good. I recommend getting the trial and listen to full song that you really know and compare.

I can hear a clear difference between Tidal and Spotify on my home stereo. Of course you have to have a decent HiFI system if not is not worth it and also Top Pop Charts song may not show a huge difference since they are so compressed.

I just bought a month's worth. I had 30% off coupons but the expired. If you're a student you can inquire about their discount, it's $15. 
 
So far so good. Music really comes to life.. I can see why hifi can turn into an expensive hobby. 
 
Maná MTV Unplugged album gave me an eargasm. 

 

[teb1013]

I'm now on the 5th day of the trial and with the exception of a couple of glitches (literally 2 or 3) I've had no problems on my simple set up (iPad 3 or iPhone 4s through CCK, Aune T1 (Amperex JAN7308) Sennheiser HD 600). I have been listening to a number of albums that I know well and find that the quality is truly "CD quality" which for streaming is quite amazing. Right now I'm listening to Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells III which I have as a "pretty good" sounding MP3. The dimension and detail on Tidal positively blows this away. I'm moving from the gut reaction of "too expensive" to the "what can I cancel to make this work" phase. I think I know where this type of rationalization is headed!

 

[FYL941]

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/30/jay-z-tidal-takeover-the-breaks-over/

I hope hova can fix the connectivity issues

 

[FYL941]

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/30/jay-z-tidal-takeover-the-breaks-over/

I hope hova can fix the connectivity issues

Whoops, should've read the earlier posts...

 

[zilch0md]

Is Tidal reducing the bit depth of their "HiFi" streaming to reduce their need for bandwidth?
 
I'm a little embarrassed to admit that I've had Tidal for almost three months now but only just this morning decided to A/B the following two chains:
 
Tidal HiFi > iPad 3 > Pure i-20 Coaxial Out > Metrum Octave MkII > Metrum Aurix > HD800
 
44/16 WAV > FiiO X5 Coaxial Out > Metrum Octave MkII > Metrum Aurix > HD800
 
Playing a well-recorded track I'm very familiar with, Michael Jackson's Billie Jean, swapping between Tidal HiFi and the Fii0 X5 as SPDIF sources to the Coaxial input of the Octave MkII, I was surprised when I immediately noticed a big difference in volume at the HD800.  I started pulling up some other tracks for comparison and, with every track, I am hearing about a 1.5 dB lower SPL at the headphones using Tidal HiFi > iPad 3 > Pure i-20 as the Coaxial source.
 
This could be a problem with the Pure i-20 docking station's Coaxial output, but other than a TeraDak Teralink X2 USB-to-SPDIF converter that's currently packed away, I don't have any other Coaxial output sources to play with, as a tie-breaker.
 
I may be wrong, but to my thinking, there's only one way to reduce the volume of an SPDIF source - by reducing its bet depth. So, although I have no evidence, I am considering the possibility that Tidal is reducing its bandwidth requirements by reducing the bit depth (from 16-bit to something less than 16).  
 
Is there anyone else here who can compare the SPL heard at the headphones when playing Tidal HiFi (44/16) vs. a 44/16 WAV or FLAC file of the exact same artist/album/track? If it really is a due to a reduction in bit depth, then it wouldn't matter what chains you use for the comparison, as long as your comparing a true Redbook file to the Tidal HiFi equivalent.
 
Oh, I just talked myself into another experiment I can perform myself - with these two chains:
 
44/16 WAV > Windows 7 > Foobar 2000 > USB > CEntrance DACmini CX > LCD-2 rev.1
 
Tidal HiFi > Windows 7 > USB > CEntrance DACmini CX > LCD-2 rev.1
 
OK, I'm convinced - even when comparing these two chains, the Tidal HiFi source gives me a lower volume at the headphones. I just now compared Jennier Warnes' First We Take Manhattan, which has some dynamic drum hits, etc.  Playing from a 44/16 WAV file (vs. Tidal HiFi), it's not only louder at the headphones by at least 1 dB, it seems to have more punch.  Tidal HiFi sounds fine until I make a direct comparison with a WAV file - then it sounds compressed.  (Note that the "HiFi" indicator is lit in Tidal.)
 
UPDATE:  Using Eva Cassidy's Blues in the Night, from her Eva By Heart album, it's really obvious, right at the beginning of the song, that her voice has a lot more "snap" with the 44/16 WAV file than with Tidal HiFi's streaming of the same track.
 
I'd really like to hear anyone else's observations when making similar comparisons between Tidal HiFi and a Redbook file - using the same DAC, amp and headphones.
 
Mike

 

[Maelob]

I don't think SPL differences does not necessarily means drop in quality, they are different sources, however, if you could compare the two at the same SPL that would be a better comparison. Just my two cents, I am not an expert.

 

[zilch0md]

I don't think SPL differences does not necessarily means drop in quality, they are different [ digital ] sources, however, if you could compare the two at the same SPL that would be a better comparison. Just my two cents, I am not an expert.

http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/Intro/SQ/VolumeControl.htm

It's well known that reducing the bit depth of a digital source will reduce the volume heard at the headphones or speakers, all else remaining the same.

As mentioned in my last post, I've compared Tidal HiFi (which is allegedly 44/16) to actual 44/16 WAV files, first with one chain of DAC/amp/headphones and then with another. In both cases, whether using Metrum Octave MkII > Metrum Aurix > HD800 -or- USB > CEntrance DACmini CX > LCD-2 rev.1, Tidal Hi-Fi delivers a lower volume to the headphones. Why?

Reducing the bit depth from 16-bit to something less than 16-bit would certainly account for the loss of SPL at the transducers.

The good news, quoting the article written above, is that even if Tidal HiFi is reducing the bit depth to something less than 16-bit (ostensibly to reduce their bandwidth needs)...

Modest digital volume control e.g. up to -10 dB is in general considered not audible.

Again, I'm not hearing more than about a -2 dB difference in volume, so... theoretically, there's no harm done. Still, I don't think we're getting 44/16 from Tidal HiFi.

Is there anyone else out there willing to perform this comparison? Is it just a coincidence that I've got too completely dissimilar chains that exhibit a lower SPL coming from Tidal HiFi across multiple tracks vs. the SPL heard when using 44/16 WAV files from the same albums?

Mike

 

[Maelob]

Mike, thanks for the explanation , but I am a little bit confused.  Hopefully i learn something.  If i play a file from an X5 DAP via digital coax out to my DAC, and the same file from another DAP to the same DAC, are you saying the should sound at the same SPL. Does the GAIN variations means reducing bit depth.  I think there are other variable that could account for the difference. sorry just playing devils advocate but seems like apples an oranges comparison. Just because the file is the same resolution if they come from different sources the volume could vary.  lol not sure. I am sure there has to be other methods of testing resolution besides spl variation. good discussion though. 
Ismael