Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

[Jason Stoddard]

   
Are you doing anything to minimize the possible jitter added by this math, and are you addressing jitter at a system level? Maybe a stupid question, but it would be a big turnoff if I read about all these interesting filter ideas and under the hood was 10M rubidium clock 

Yeah, we're in trouble, Mike knows nothing about jitter!

 

[tonykaz]

Oh dear , 
 
Well , I can help , I know a little bit , want me to teach him ? , I can teach him all I know in about 3 minutes time , no problem , happy to do it !  :   
 
1. )   Stop what you're doing , take a few breaths , fill the tub with 110 F. water , take a nice hot bath , try to relax .  
 
  Mike , remember you can get over this , concentrate on your 3 foot world , don't worry so much about all the idiots , like me , that pester you night and day , seemingly endlessly .  You will overcome all this pressure and resume a balanced life , take Mrs out for a nice Dinner , see a movie , relax . 
 
Annnnnnd don't let that meany JS push you around , be a man , stand up for yourself .  
 I know you can do it .  
 
Tony in Michigan 

 

[estreeter]

Hmm, other than Tony I only know of one other individual from Michigan - must be something in the water ..... 
 

 

[ultrabike]

  rubidium is useless for audio applications, and I was making a jab at blah blah blah
 
They haven't mentioned clocking which is why I'm bringing it up

 
I have no idea what filtering approach Schiit is using. At all. Seems it's proprietary secret-sauce kind of stuff. Haven't even heard the product. Only read a few bits of information about it here and there. Pertinent to Mike's post, which you replied to, I found this:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/900#post_10484437
 
18,000+ taps is a lot of taps and more than jitter I would be concerned about bit-width precision. However, I think the ADSP-21478 (which I think Schiit is using) supports 32 bit fixed and 32/40 bit floating point operations, on top of FIR, IIR and FFT accelerators. That's kind of a lot of overkillness there IMO (hell, for all that I know, the processor may support double precision 64/80 bit operations, but I'm not familiar with it).
 
I guess I'm not seeing the link between Mike's comments and the jitter concern. Unless you are saying that timing error due to jitter causes the world to be a bit less than perfect. But that would be down the chain in the digital to analog conversion. I thought Mike said:
 
"Digitally, it takes nothing away from the original information..."

 

[Audio Jester]

Yeah we're in trouble, Mike knows nothing about jitter!

No worries Jason! Just get Mike to watch this educational video about jitter. It covers pretty much all you need to know.
http://youtu.be/pIgZ7gMze7A

 

[NoPants]

 
Yeah, we're in trouble, Mike knows nothing about jitter!

Haha I guess I deserved that. Good schiit
 

   
I have no idea what filtering approach Schiit is using. At all. Seems it's proprietary secret-sauce kind of stuff. Haven't even heard the product. Only read a few bits of information about it here and there. Pertinent to Mike's post, which you replied to, I found this:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/900#post_10484437
 
18,000+ taps is a lot of taps and more than jitter I would be concerned about bit-width precision. However, I think the ADSP-21478 (which I think Schiit is using) supports 32 bit fixed and 32/40 bit floating point operations, on top of FIR, IIR and FFT accelerators. That's kind of a lot of overkillness there IMO (hell, for all that I know, the processor may support double precision 64/80 bit operations, but I'm not familiar with it).
 
I guess I'm not seeing the link between Mike's comments and the jitter concern. Unless you are saying that timing error due to jitter causes the world to be a bit less than perfect. But that would be down the chain in the digital to analog conversion. I thought Mike said:
 
"Digitally, it takes nothing away from the original information..."

There's no direct relation between his comments and jitter, it's just something I wanted to bring it up among all the chatter of d/a chips and filter processing. The chip seems relatively buff as far as compute is concerned.

 

[62ohm]

Has anyone ever heard the Myryad Z20? It doesn't seem to be very popular around here, but it does seem to be well priced.

 

[purrin]

 
That's what Yggy digitally does. Period! (Pardon the shouts) IT DOES NOT MAKE BAD RECORDINGS SOUND GOOD. If you let it warm up all the way, IT DOES NOT MAKE BAD RECORDINGS SOUND WORSE. If you are listening to a lot of bad recordings, you may try stamp collecting or another hobby. You do not have to believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, or swing dead chickens around your head while dancing nude and covered with moose dung in the Alaskan tundra in February.  Flippin' science.
 
There is no way to fix a bad recording, for now and ever shall be. Amen

 
On this thought... the problem once you get a great DAC is that you start hunting for good recordings. Better masters. I think I have four different masters of Michael Jackon's Thriller. You start doing crazy **** like hunting down SACDs (yes DSD can be converted to PCM - actually, if you look at the frequency distribution say in say a wave editor like Adobe Audition, a good amount of DSD seems to be sourced from 44.1kHz PCM), buying rare Japan releases, asking friends in the industry, perusing every "remaster", etc. in an attempt to find the best recording.
 
It's kind of a pain, but I actually find the search for the best recording quite rewarding.

 

[BournePerfect]

 
Yeah, it was a stupid question.

 
FTFY.
 

 

[tonykaz]

Mr.estreetr , 
 
I think I know that guy , we may have done a job together , a few years ago , in S.Dakota , or maybe we did time together on the Rock , can't quite remember properly , I was a heavy drinker back then .   
  If it's the guy I know , tell him he still owes my my cut of the $27K we got from that Bank Job , I'm looking for him , you say he's here in Michigan , somewhere , hmm , thanks for the tip , bet he's hiding out at our old Deep woods hideout , I'll find him .  
 
Tony in Michigan 

 

[Currawong]

 

 
That's what Yggy digitally does. Period! (Pardon the shouts) IT DOES NOT MAKE BAD RECORDINGS SOUND GOOD. If you let it warm up all the way, IT DOES NOT MAKE BAD RECORDINGS SOUND WORSE. If you are listening to a lot of bad recordings, you may try stamp collecting or another hobby. You do not have to believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, or swing dead chickens around your head while dancing nude and covered with moose dung in the Alaskan tundra in February.  Flippin' science.
 
There is no way to fix a bad recording, for now and ever shall be. Amen

 
On this thought... the problem once you get a great DAC is that you start hunting for good recordings. Better masters. I think I have four different masters of Michael Jackon's Thriller. You start doing crazy **** like hunting down SACDs (yes DSD can be converted to PCM - actually, if you look at the frequency distribution say in say a wave editor like Adobe Audition, a good amount of DSD seems to be sourced from 44.1kHz PCM), buying rare Japan releases, asking friends in the industry, perusing every "remaster", etc. in an attempt to find the best recording.
 
It's kind of a pain, but I actually find the search for the best recording quite rewarding.

 
The local Head-Fi group here uses Thriller as their standard test track. I've heard it so many times now...

 

[Baldr]

BRUZ is the best/only flavor.

 

[estreeter]

Tony, this might jog your memory ...
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c3d7QgZr7g

 

[tonykaz]

Thriller indeed ,
 
It was Recorded and Mastered with Electrocompinet Electronics by Quincy Jones .   Electro electronics is top stuff .   You can own Electrocompaniet yourself , it's not all that pricy .  
 
Tony in Michigan 
 
ps. the little Asgard 2 has the Electro "sound" !

 

[magiccabbage]

   
On this thought... the problem once you get a great DAC is that you start hunting for good recordings. Better masters. I think I have four different masters of Michael Jackon's Thriller. You start doing crazy **** like hunting down SACDs (yes DSD can be converted to PCM - actually, if you look at the frequency distribution say in say a wave editor like Adobe Audition, a good amount of DSD seems to be sourced from 44.1kHz PCM), buying rare Japan releases, asking friends in the industry, perusing every "remaster", etc. in an attempt to find the best recording.
 
It's kind of a pain, but I actually find the search for the best recording quite rewarding.

Which is your favorite re issue of thriller? I presume you have heard the master sound and HD stereo versions? Are there any better than those?