Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

[estreeter]

If I cant afford a 7K DAC it follows that I cant afford a 16K DAC. That said, if there is an aspirational aspect to this hobby then drawing an arbitrary line at $500 or $5000 isnt far off the 'any properly designed source/amp sounds the same when properly volume matched' argument, and that IS an objectivist mantra. 

 

[purrin]

  Cool, thanks. I'm thinking about eventually changing to an Octave Mk2 setup. Dunno, I like the extra detail and resolving ability on the NOS1704 when doing direct comparisons, but I think I just prefer the Metrum's presentation in the end. I know the Mk2 has new boards based on what's in the Hex, and I believe it doesn't use output transformers like the Hex does (going back to some impressions I've read stating the Quad/Octave sounded more "direct" than the Hex due to this). Curious to check it out some day. I'm hoping the USB implementation with something like the iFi USB or Wyrd would be good enough to negate the need for a USB->SPDIF converter to both save some money and simplify my setup (still an extra box either way, I guess).

 
Do you know if the Octave uses caps instead of the transformers?

 

[Rajikaru]

  If I cant afford a 7K DAC it follows that I cant afford a 16K DAC. That said, if there is an aspirational aspect to this hobby then drawing an arbitrary line at $500 or $5000 isnt far off the 'any properly designed source/amp sounds the same when properly volume matched' argument, and that IS an objectivist mantra. 

 
As opposed to 'the more money you spend, the better the sound gets', which IS a subjectivist Dogma?
 
Most of the arguments centered on DACs really come down to:
Conclusion based on experience vs. Dogma (what you want to believe)

What really muddles things up is that there are so many conflicting conclusions based on various individual experiences.

The REAL question is why no one sets up either:
a. a DBT between various DACS from the ODAC up to the 16K esoterica a lot of people aspire to.
 
or  even better,

b. Directly record the output of  DACs all the way from the  ODAC up to the 16K esoterica and null them for any differences.  (After all we're all listening to recordings so I cannot see how this won't reveal anything).
 
Then we can stop arguing about DACs, like it was politics or religion.

 

[adamaley]

   
As opposed to 'the more money you spend, the better the sound gets', which IS a subjectivist Dogma?
 
Most of the arguments centered on DACs really come down to:
Conclusion based on experience vs. Dogma (what you want to believe)

What really muddles things up is that there are so many conflicting conclusions based on various individual experiences.

The REAL question is why no one sets up either:
a. a DBT between various DACS from the ODAC up to the 16K esoterica a lot of people aspire to.
 
or  even better,

b. Directly record the output of  DACs all the way from the  ODAC up to the 16K esoterica and null them for any differences.  (After all we're all listening to recordings so I cannot see how this won't reveal anything).
 
Then we can stop arguing about DACs, like it was politics or religion.

 
So, about them DACs......

 

[purrin]

  If I cant afford a 7K DAC it follows that I cant afford a 16K DAC. That said, if there is an aspirational aspect to this hobby then drawing an arbitrary line at $500 or $5000 isnt far off the 'any properly designed source/amp sounds the same when properly volume matched' argument, and that IS an objectivist mantra. 

 
I wouldn't bother arguing. I wouldn't hear much difference in DACs if I were using most of the same mediocre headphones or amps either.

 

[62ohm]

Purrin,
 
What do you think about the Benchmark DAC2? Would you rank it above, or bellow the NAD M51?

 

[purrin]

The REAL question is why no one sets up either:
a. a DBT between various DACS from the ODAC up to the 16K esoterica a lot of people aspire to.

 
DBTs are hard to setup and conduct properly. Hell, single blind tests are hard to setup and conduct properly. However people do setup single blind tests.
 

 
Then we can stop arguing about DACs, like it was politics or religion.

 
Easier said than done. Some "objectivists" seem hell bent on proselytizing others on the dangers of placebo purgatory. It's like they can't keep such awesome gnosis to themselves, but need to save all others, including those who don't want to be saved. It's like that time where that Jehovah's Witness knocked on my pothead neighbor's door when I lived in Satan Cruz.

 

[purrin]

  Purrin,
 
What do you think about the Benchmark DAC2? Would you rank it above, or bellow the NAD M51?

 
No clue. Not heard.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

I wouldn't bother arguing. I wouldn't hear much difference in DACs if I were using most of the same mediocre headphones or amps either.

I will say I never heard as much difference between dacs in my system as I do using the Valhalla 2 and hd800s. Not with the HV and 009s or the Mjolnir with the LCD-3s.

 

[estreeter]

   
As opposed to 'the more money you spend, the better the sound gets', which IS a subjectivist Dogma?
 
Most of the arguments centered on DACs really come down to:
Conclusion based on experience vs. Dogma (what you want to believe)

What really muddles things up is that there are so many conflicting conclusions based on various individual experiences.

The REAL question is why no one sets up either:
a. a DBT between various DACS from the ODAC up to the 16K esoterica a lot of people aspire to.
 
or  even better,

b. Directly record the output of  DACs all the way from the  ODAC up to the 16K esoterica and null them for any differences.  (After all we're all listening to recordings so I cannot see how this won't reveal anything).
 
Then we can stop arguing about DACs, like it was politics or religion.

 
Couldnt agree more, but how many in this thread have even attempted a genuine DBT ? I've used the F2K ABX Comparator, but that's the limit of my attempts to objectively identify a difference between hi-res and Redbook - trying to separate purrin's DAC sample based on a genuine blind test would be a massive logistical exercise. Do I believe I could reliably identify the DAC202 in the middle of that pack ? Maybe, and maybe I would just grow weary of hearing DSOTM for the umpteenth time - longer term, I know which DAC I'd be happy to plug into my Taurus regardless of purrin's subjective rankings.

 

[estreeter]

   
I wouldn't bother arguing. I wouldn't hear much difference in DACs if I were using most of the same mediocre headphones or amps either.

 
Back to the DACs - how soon can you get your hands on Yggdrasil ?

 

[purrin]

Can't say for sure. It's one of those things where if I knew and if I told you anything, I would have to kill you.

 

[estreeter]

The CIA non-disclosure clause, eh ? I look forward to your impressions. 

 

[magiccabbage]

I will say I never heard as much difference between dacs in my system as I do using the Valhalla 2 and hd800s. Not with the HV and 009s or the Mjolnir with the LCD-3s.

wow

 

[hans030390]

 
Do you know if the Octave uses caps instead of the transformers?

 
Not sure on that...you'd have to get some internal shots of the Octave Mk2 and Hex to compare. I'm also not sure how the Mk1 and Mk2 boards differ. Just an area I'm pretty noob in.