Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

[magiccabbage]

Anyone else hear that the new Schiit Yggy is going to be 2300 dollars? I was hoping they would keep it under 2K. It should be a serious contender but i wonder will it compare to the like of AMR DP777 nd the new resonance labs DAC?

 

[Tony1110]

Cool, thanks. I'm thinking about eventually changing to an Octave Mk2 setup. Dunno, I like the extra detail and resolving ability on the NOS1704 when doing direct comparisons, but I think I just prefer the Metrum's presentation in the end. I know the Mk2 has new boards based on what's in the Hex, and I believe it doesn't use output transformers like the Hex does (going back to some impressions I've read stating the Quad/Octave sounded more "direct" than the Hex due to this). Curious to check it out some day. I'm hoping the USB implementation with something like the iFi USB or Wyrd would be good enough to negate the need for a USB->SPDIF converter to both save some money and simplify my setup (still an extra box either way, I guess).

USB implementation on Octave MKII is top notch with the power supply. Definitely no need for a SPDIF converter.

 

[LCfiner]

  Here it is:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/708858/some-dac-preamp-comparisons-long
 
 
You may wish to audition the PWD, available new for $1,750 or so on Audiogon.
 
IMO, a better DAC for less $$$

thanks for the link.
 
as for the PWDII, I had one briefly a little over a year ago. It’s just too huge for my desk, lol. and I have an enormous desk. I’d have to get a dedicated rack for that thing.
 
Plus, at the time when I had it, with different speakers and headphones, I didn’t think it was enough of an improvement over my other DAC at the time to keep it. (it was 2500 for a used one, then). 
 
Now, I might be willing now to try it again vs the NAD but the form factor is still an issue. also, I got the NAD used for around 1500 so the price is similar. 
 
Maybe 2015 or 2016 if prices drop closer to 1K. But I kind want to just live with the NAD for a while and not think about a change for a while. Comparing DACs is always a bit of a chore for me

 

[Stereolab42]

  Anyone else hear that the new Schiit Yggy is going to be 2300 dollars? I was hoping they would keep it under 2K. It should be a serious contender but i wonder will it compare to the like of AMR DP777 nd the new resonance labs DAC?

 
They're going to be in trouble at that price range with no DSD support. I think Schiit is missing the fact that although there aren't a huge number of native DSD recordings available yet, it's still a major differentiater for DACs that are otherwise very similar in features. For example, look the iFi "Octo-adopter" campaign.

 

[boatheelmusic]

They're going to be in trouble at that price range with no DSD support. I think Schiit is missing the fact that although there aren't a huge number of native DSD recordings available yet, it's still a major differentiater for DACs that are otherwise very similar in features. For example, look the iFi "Octo-adopter" campaign.

Perhaps not.......here's an excerpt from Computer Audiophile's review of Berkeley's $16K DAC.....no DSD.

"Rarely do I hear a component that's truly a game changer, a component that's so good I can't stop listening through it, and a component that's so good it renders much of the competition irrelevant. I can't remember, off the top of my head, the last time I heard such a component. That is, before the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series arrived. The Alpha DAC RS, every bit a true game changer, blew me away from the first listen in my system. Since its arrival I've listened to more complete albums and heard more new sounds from old albums than any time in my life. The Alpha DAC RS is so good and such a game changer it may force consumers to reconsider their desire for high resolution music. Sure the Alpha DAC RS can reproduce high resolution music better than any DAC I've heard in my system, but its absolute magic can be heard with standard CD quality 16 bit / 44.1 kHz material. The Alpha DAC RS is without question the best DAC I've heard anywhere when it comes to 16/44.1 playback. I've never heard detail, delicacy, and transparency with my favorite music like I have when listening through this DAC. The Alpha DAC RS is so outstanding that I equate its presence in my system to that of a new pair of loudspeakers. That's correct; the Alpha DAC RS had an impact on my system equivalent to a new pair of loudspeakers. In fact, the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha DAC Reference Series is the most remarkable sounding product I've ever reviewed. "

 

[Byrnie]

They're going to be in trouble at that price range with no DSD support. I think Schiit is missing the fact that although there aren't a huge number of native DSD recordings available yet, it's still a major differentiater for DACs that are otherwise very similar in features. For example, look the iFi "Octo-adopter" campaign.

I honestly don't think a lack of DSD support is that big of a deal. It doesn't even seem that popular yet it is growing though.

 

[Stereolab42]

Umm, yeah, a $16k DAC. IMHO as soon as you zoom past $500 the audible differences between DACs when playing common formats becomes very small (with the exception of a few that really manage to screw up, like the portable DAC that looks like a toy that shall-not-be-named). What you are paying for is features, build quality, noise control (filtering of external noise/jitter, lack of pops/clicks), reliability, and support for new formats. But I realize many people disagree on this point so I'm not going to get into a debate about it.

 

[boatheelmusic]

And a Toyota can get you to work as effectively as a Porsche.....but luxury goods are always that way.

BTW, that's too rich for my blood too, but that's also what many here would say about my PWD that I enjoy and can justify.

 

[Chris J]

Umm, yeah, a $16k DAC. IMHO as soon as you zoom past $500 the audible differences between DACs when playing common formats becomes very small (with the exception of a few that really manage to screw up, like the portable DAC that looks like a toy that shall-not-be-named). What you are paying for is features, build quality, noise control (filtering of external noise/jitter, lack of pops/clicks), reliability, and support for new formats. But I realize many people disagree on this point so I'm not going to get into a debate about it.

Hugo!

Sorry.

 

[BournePerfect]

   
They're going to be in trouble at that price range with no DSD support. I think Schiit is missing the fact that although there aren't a huge number of native DSD recordings available yet, it's still a major differentiater for DACs that are otherwise very similar in features. For example, look the iFi "Octo-adopter" campaign.

 
They're gonna be fine. I think this thing is honestly going to sell like gangbusters-and HF is gonna be swamped with lesser, costlier dacs on the FS forums in 6 months. In fact I'm definitely getting in on the beta for Yggy (if there is one) if for no other reason to ensure I get one and won't have to worry about stock considerations.
 
Call it another hunch.

 

[SoupRKnowva]

They're gonna be fine. I think this thing is honestly going to sell like gangbusters-and HF is gonna be swamped with lesser, costlier dacs on the FS forums in 6 months. In fact I'm definitely getting in on the beta for Yggy (if there is one) if for no other reason to ensure I get one and won't have to worry about stock considerations.

Call it another hunch.

This.

I think schiit probably understands the dac market better than most. I would reason to guess they sell more dacs than most other audiophile companies do. Plus, they don't like DSD. If you want DSD buy a different dac, I don't think they'll miss your sale

 

[BournePerfect]

Soup I know you've been stoked for this thing just as long as I have-since the day it was announced. Good times ahead!

 

[pietsjef]

Wyred Dac2 Dsdse -femento? Many, many inquiring minds wondering, I suspect

 

[estreeter]

  Umm, yeah, a $16k DAC. IMHO as soon as you zoom past $500 the audible differences between DACs when playing common formats becomes very small (with the exception of a few that really manage to screw up, like the portable DAC that looks like a toy that shall-not-be-named). What you are paying for is features, build quality, noise control (filtering of external noise/jitter, lack of pops/clicks), reliability, and support for new formats. But I realize many people disagree on this point so I'm not going to get into a debate about it.

 
I'm curious - how much time have you actually spent with the Hugo in your system ? I've only heard two DACs that I would consider 'above average' - Weiss DAC202 via Firewire and the Hugo via coax. It's interesting that people who've never heard the Weiss immediately zero in on the unfortunate 'smiley face' then focus on the sticker - most have clearly never even heard it. If I could afford that DAC, I'd buy it in a heartbeat - regardless of purrin's opinion of the architecture - but I can't afford a ~7k DAC so I ended up with the Hugo. I have my own issues with the casework, but to dismiss it based purely on the aesthetics and a couple of unhappy campers is shortsighted IMO. I disagree with the designer on a couple of points but at the end of the day Chord shipped the product they believed best represented their quirky approach to something many of us take far too seriously. 
 
As for your dismissal of the Berkeley based purely on it's sticker price, is there any chance that you could actually audition the DAC prior to giving us your opinion ? I have no problem with the law of diminishing returns, but I do have a problem with people making broad-brush statements with no firsthand experience of a given product. Connaker has made no secret of his feelings for the Berkeley Audio Design product line, but he previously conceded that his Alpha had been toppled by the DAC202 - it would seem that BAD had to dip into the 'cost-no-object' bin to put themselves back on his top shelf. 
 
Unlike purrin and a couple of others here (project86 seems to have moved to the big leagues), most of us dont have the luxury of being able to listen to a slew of high-end source/amp/headphone combinations, but sooner or later we all have to make a purchase decision and I dont regret buying the Hugo, Schiit will sell truckloads of Yggdrasil based on nothing more than the spec sheet and the buildup here, whether the price is above or below 2K - this DAC is aimed well above anything they've sold previously and well beyond any of their obvious competitors. If your statement re audible differences held true, threads like this would have no value whatsoever - surely we would all just buy the ODAC and call it a day ? 
 
Looking forward to your feedback, 

 

[Stereolab42]

  If your statement re audible differences held true, threads like this would have no value whatsoever - surely we would all just buy the ODAC and call it a day ? 

 
I stated explicitly in my post that there many other reasons to pay good money for a DAC aside from pure SQ, which varies between "excellent" and "outstanding" for 95% of DACS at or above $500 I've heard. I went through many DACs before arriving at my exaSounds, which are not cheap... and the reasons were never purely SQ-related. Maybe to your ears a $16k DAC may make a difference. For me, I have zero reason to believe so. I'm no objectivist, I'm saying this purely subjectively... if it sounds great for you, well, I'm not going to persuade you not to spend that $16k.