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Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

Discussion in 'Dedicated Source Components' started by purrin, Dec 5, 2013.
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  1. Argo Duck
    ^ Indeed. Most scientists IME quickly learn humility from conducting experiments, me most definitely included :wink:
     
  2. evillamer
    Finally found a technical video that shows Sigma Delta has issues with tracking fast changing(very steep sloping) signals: It is called Slope Overload Distortion. Also Sigma Delta has Granular Noise distortion.
     
    https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Analog_and_Digital_Conversion/Delta_Modulation
     
    fig_2010_07_dm.jpg
     
     
     
     
     
    Watch From 28m:50seconds onwards:
     
     
     
     
    Currawong likes this.
  3. Sapientiam
    Slope overload is an issue for delta modulation - have you confused that with sigma-delta?
     
  4. skeptic
     
    Thanks so much for the detailed response and explanation!  Tied up with a bunch of family stuff this weekend but looking forward to carefully reading the Putzey article as soon as time permits.  
     
  5. evillamer
     
    Quote:
     
    Correct me if I am wrong. Sigma Delta is an improvement over Delta Modulation by adding oversampling and noise shaping and filtering into the chain? As in Sigma Delta still employs some form of delta modulation(comparator) but at a much higher sampling rate? But the question I don't know is if the slope overload is still an issue with sigma delta or not?(you need 20x oversampling as per this pdf)
     
    http://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/tutorials/MT-022.pdf
    Quote:
     
     
     
     
    Another interesting PDF:
     
     
    http://www.numerix-dsp.com/appsnotes/APR8-sigma-delta.pdf
     
     
     

     
     
     
     
  6. mikoss
    Sonic Defender did you ever have that meet in Ottawa to do the testing? I heard the Yggy again today and was impressed with the detailed presentation. Just wondering the results when you do have the meet.
     
  7. Sonic Defender Contributor

    Sadly we are seriously considering putting the meet off until late September as it seems summer is a tough time to compete with. For those that don't live in a true winter-bound climate, it may be hard to understand that when a brief summer hits us, people try to cram so much stuff into such a short period of time that something has to give (like headphone meets).
     
    I don't mind as waiting will allow us to have more time to prepare as well as get enough subjects. Long way of saying, not yet.
     
  8. mikoss
    Cool well maybe I can make it to Ottawa in sept. Enjoy the summer either way...
     
  9. rkt31
    TT has better headphone amp than Hugo hence expensive. 2qute has no amp like yggy. what more it is cheaper than yggy.
     
  10. bmichels
     
    did you really hear a difference between booth AMPs ?  With several headphones, I compared my HUGO with a TT and couldn't head a significant difference ? 
     
  11. dan.gheorghe
    I've managed to get my hands on an old theta dspro basic. I know it's not in the same league with gen V, but I was still astonished by its performance. Incredible performance from a dac designed ~25 years ago.
     
    Argo Duck likes this.
  12. evillamer
     
    Excellent Review(as always). Can't wait for you to review on the Theta DS Pro or even the Schitt Yggdrasil.
     
     
     
     
     
    dan.gheorghe likes this.
  13. evillamer
    Some have the misconception that Modern DACs by merit of being newer(due technological advancements) sound better.(think windows 95 vs modern windows 8.1). However it seems that this is not the case with audio hardware. It's the design and quality of the components used that matters more than the age of the product.
     
  14. Sonic Defender Contributor

    While I'm sure this might be true, it isn't safe to assume that this is true frequently. Technological advances are very important and the notion that older always used better quality I'm not sure if that is accurate either. You might have some of the most expensive capacitors from the 90s that were extremely expensive simply due to scale of economy, newness of the technology, or any other number of reasons. Perhaps today even very affordable capacitors are equally as reliable and have better specs. While it is nice to assume older was always better, not likely. People always needed to make margin and corners were cut then as they are now when design parameters allow for it.
     
    Just the other day somebody brought in some quite old Bang and Olufsen speakers and a very long all in one amp, turntable and cassette deck. I threw them all in the recycling bin at work as they were old enough that even entry level Polk speakers would sound better without a doubt. 
     
  15. evillamer
    I am not saying that older products used high quality or expensive components by default. I am saying that quality of the components used and the design of the product outweights the age of the product.

    e.g. A 2015 newly designed dac doesn't necessary automagically means it is better than a 2010 dac.
     
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