Thoughts on a bunch of DACs (and why delta-sigma kinda sucks, just to get you to think about stuff)

May 18, 2015 at 11:08 PM Post #5,491 of 6,500
I received the PCM63 K2 from TeraDak last week and it sounds really good! I was taken back on first listen. Didn't expect such a lush sound. I listened bit by bit daily but haven't had time to really AB with some classical and jazz to test it on pianos, violins, saxophones, and sit down to listen in my ideal environment. 
 
First thing that came out at me compared with M7 was that it sounds  thinner in the  midrange, also has a different type of bass. The quantity is less than M7 but it is a little more airy. The M7 has this dynamic slam to its bass, while the PCM63 is open and soft sounding. It's like the low notes are more open while the M7 kind of hits you. PCM63 may actually articulate some low frequencies better. The highs are definitely brighter than M7, but I wouldn't say treble is hard or annoying. It's the same thing as the bass, it simply feels softer, at the same time brighter. The resolution is better on M7. There is a clarity to it that the PCM63 doesn't have. The vocals on M7 are also better. They're full bodied compared with the thinner presentation of the PMC63. I'm hearing this particularly on male vocals, while female vocals seem to extend well with PCM63. If I had to make an analogy, I would say the PCM63 is the equivalent of a carefully mastered and mixed CD, with peak limiting and compression, but engineered very well, while the M7 is the equivalent of the same mix but in a 176.4/24 format, uncompressed with no peak limiting. 
 
Redbooks sound really good coming from it, although I did notice the midrange is more forward than M7, a little peaky in comparison. It provides more energy through the midrange. I can tell that for some of my CD's at least, I'm already preferring the PCM63 over M7. When I down sampled 96 and 192 material to 48/24 using J River it didn't sound too good: the range was compressed, ques were lost,  lushness in the lows disappears, and the highs became harder. This is all of course compared with the M7 playing the same material at full 96/24!
 
The stage and dynamic are wonderful. My expectation was low when ordering... thought it would sound flat or have a boring "old school" sound. It turns out the sound is musical and engaging. Instrument imaging is good, at times I thought it may be better than M7 which I think is quite amazing.
 
Now that I've heard the PCM63 I can say with confidence the M7 and PCM63 really do have a distinct “R2R” sound and flavor. They are different than the d/s dac's I got to try. They sound more alike than d/s, which in turn sound alike to each other. R2R simply has a richer tone to it. Much more “analog” or whatever one wants to call it.
 
I asked the rep from TeraDak what their reasoning was behind the buffer, filter and op amp choices on this DAC. Among other things they said a well known PCM63 based dac with matured circuitry was used as a reference, and they tried different modifications to it such as SM58xx filter, going with what sounded better in the end. The only concern is the lifespan of the PCM63 chips since they're so old. I haven't done any real reviews and I don't really have a reputation on these forums, but trust me this DAC sounds really good! I'm certain it will sound better than anything D/S in the same price range and I don't think anyone getting this will be disappointed. Hopefully Purrin can one day compare it against his extensive PCM63 experience. And if this is one of the “worse” sounding PCM63 DAC's then I'm hard pressed to imagine what the “good” ones sound like. 
 
(Listening to My God (early version) from Wilson's mix of Aqualung right now, my God!)
 
I'm grateful to Purrin for bringing this chip to my attention, and Currawong for bringing this DAC to my attention. Thanks guys!
 
                            
 
                            
 
                            
 
                            
 
                            
 
May 18, 2015 at 11:33 PM Post #5,493 of 6,500
I don't know what revision b is, but this is a far better sound than my odac! My enthusiasm is probably at an all time high at the moment, but I'll go out on a limb and say hell yes! I heard a Geek something or other last month at the expo and it was meh. 
 
May 18, 2015 at 11:40 PM Post #5,494 of 6,500
  I don't know what revision b is, but this is a far better sound than my odac! My enthusiasm is probably at an all time high at the moment, but I'll go out on a limb and say hell yes! I heard a Geek something or other last month at the expo and it was meh. 

 
Does teradak still sell this? or is it a special order?
 
Also what are the two equipment below the Master 9?
 
May 18, 2015 at 11:48 PM Post #5,495 of 6,500
I wrote them about it and they sent me the same email that was posted earlier in this thread. Had to check inventory, and when it was confirmed they had chips I gave the go ahead. Took a little over two weeks to build. That's the PCM63 dac and a Teac CD1000. 
 
May 19, 2015 at 12:00 AM Post #5,496 of 6,500
  I received the PCM63 K2 from TeraDak last week and it sounds really good! I was taken back on first listen. Didn't expect such a lush sound. I listened bit by bit daily but haven't had time to really AB with some classical and jazz to test it on pianos, violins, saxophones, and sit down to listen in my ideal environment. 
 

 
So how much did this DAC cost you? 
 
May 19, 2015 at 12:01 AM Post #5,497 of 6,500
  I wrote them about it and they sent me the same email that was posted earlier in this thread. Had to check inventory, and when it was confirmed they had chips I gave the go ahead. Took a little over two weeks to build. That's the PCM63 dac and a Teac CD1000. 

Looks like it lacks usb input. probably could use offramp 5/6. ;)
 
May 19, 2015 at 12:03 AM Post #5,498 of 6,500
   
I received the PCM63 K2 from TeraDak last week and it sounds really good! I was taken back on first listen. Didn't expect such a lush sound. I listened bit by bit daily but haven't had time to really AB with some classical and jazz to test it on pianos, violins, saxophones, and sit down to listen in my ideal environment. 
 
First thing that came out at me compared with M7 was that it sounds  thinner in the  midrange, also has a different type of bass. The quantity is less than M7 but it is a little more airy. The M7 has this dynamic slam to its bass, while the PCM63 is open and soft sounding. It's like the low notes are more open while the M7 kind of hits you. PCM63 may actually articulate some low frequencies better. The highs are definitely brighter than M7, but I wouldn't say treble is hard or annoying. It's the same thing as the bass, it simply feels softer, at the same time brighter. The resolution is better on M7. There is a clarity to it that the PCM63 doesn't have. The vocals on M7 are also better. They're full bodied compared with the thinner presentation of the PMC63. I'm hearing this particularly on male vocals, while female vocals seem to extend well with PCM63. If I had to make an analogy, I would say the PCM63 is the equivalent of a carefully mastered and mixed CD, with peak limiting and compression, but engineered very well, while the M7 is the equivalent of the same mix but in a 176.4/24 format, uncompressed with no peak limiting. 
 
Redbooks sound really good coming from it, although I did notice the midrange is more forward than M7, a little peaky in comparison. It provides more energy through the midrange. I can tell that for some of my CD's at least, I'm already preferring the PCM63 over M7. When I down sampled 96 and 192 material to 48/24 using J River it didn't sound too good: the range was compressed, ques were lost,  lushness in the lows disappears, and the highs became harder. This is all of course compared with the M7 playing the same material at full 96/24!
 
The stage and dynamic are wonderful. My expectation was low when ordering... thought it would sound flat or have a boring "old school" sound. It turns out the sound is musical and engaging. Instrument imaging is good, at times I thought it may be better than M7 which I think is quite amazing.
 
Now that I've heard the PCM63 I can say with confidence the M7 and PCM63 really do have a distinct “R2R” sound and flavor. They are different than the d/s dac's I got to try. They sound more alike than d/s, which in turn sound alike to each other. R2R simply has a richer tone to it. Much more “analog” or whatever one wants to call it.
 
I asked the rep from TeraDak what their reasoning was behind the buffer, filter and op amp choices on this DAC. Among other things they said a well known PCM63 based dac with matured circuitry was used as a reference, and they tried different modifications to it such as SM58xx filter, going with what sounded better in the end. The only concern is the lifespan of the PCM63 chips since they're so old. I haven't done any real reviews and I don't really have a reputation on these forums, but trust me this DAC sounds really good! I'm certain it will sound better than anything D/S in the same price range and I don't think anyone getting this will be disappointed. Hopefully Purrin can one day compare it against his extensive PCM63 experience. And if this is one of the “worse” sounding PCM63 DAC's then I'm hard pressed to imagine what the “good” ones sound like. 
 
(Listening to My God (early version) from Wilson's mix of Aqualung right now, my God!)
 
I'm grateful to Purrin for bringing this chip to my attention, and Currawong for bringing this DAC to my attention. Thanks guys!
 
                            
 
                            
 
                            
 
                            
 
                            
 

 
 
The one you got has just 1 x PCM63P-K2 right? 
 
May 19, 2015 at 1:35 AM Post #5,499 of 6,500
   
Does teradak still sell this? or is it a special order?
 
Also what are the two equipment below the Master 9?

http://www.head-fi.org/t/693798/thoughts-on-a-bunch-of-dacs-and-why-delta-sigma-kinda-sucks-just-to-get-you-to-think-about-stuff/3780#post_11483666
 
May 19, 2015 at 6:45 AM Post #5,500 of 6,500
  I received the PCM63 K2 from TeraDak last week and it sounds really good!

Did you use your planars to get initial impressions, which amp was paired with it ?
 
I don't think you have a lot to worry about with the chips, not that expensive to replace vs TDA1541A rarer grade authentic chips etc.
 
May 19, 2015 at 7:02 AM Post #5,501 of 6,500
  Did you use your planars to get initial impressions, which amp was paired with it ?
 
I don't think you have a lot to worry about with the chips, not that expensive to replace vs TDA1541A rarer grade authentic chips etc.

Paired with M9 amp, and I did use my HE560 which I feel is on the brighter side to begin with. I just listened to my favorite stuff all week and didn't test any other headphones, in fact I haven't listened to M7 at all since getting it so I'll try to do direct comparison as well. I went with the K2 x 4 option. 
 
As for TDA1541A, I want to try a d/a converter with this chip as well. 
 
May 19, 2015 at 4:48 PM Post #5,502 of 6,500
  Paired with M9 amp, and I did use my HE560 which I feel is on the brighter side to begin with. I just listened to my favorite stuff all week and didn't test any other headphones, in fact I haven't listened to M7 at all since getting it so I'll try to do direct comparison as well. I went with the K2 x 4 option
 
As for TDA1541A, I want to try a d/a converter with this chip as well. 

 
Interesting...What digital inputs did it come with, coax or toslink? Also can it play up to 24/96 or is it just up to 24/44-48?
 
May 19, 2015 at 7:15 PM Post #5,503 of 6,500
I got a reply from Michael at Transdak..as I am interested in the Transdac as well..
The PCM63-P goes to 24/48
  
"The USB module uses SA9023 USB chip that can output maximum 96k/24 bit.  But the PCM63 only can accept maximum 48k/24 bits."
 
 
All ,a little confusing...??
Price is $506.00
+ shipping...???
If you want XLR,add $25.00
Comes with both Toslink & Coax.
 
I asked for pics...no response..still waiting
 
If anyone,has additional info,please let us know....
 
May 19, 2015 at 7:54 PM Post #5,504 of 6,500
I asked them if the upgrades someone made to allow 24/96 in Parasound and other DACs that replace the S/PDIF input chip would allow their DAC to work with 24/96 and they said they didn't know. If you search for "Parasound DAC upgrade" on eBay you'll probably find them.
 
May 20, 2015 at 1:04 AM Post #5,505 of 6,500
I got a reply from Michael at Transdak..as I am interested in the Transdac as well..
The PCM63-P goes to 24/48
  
"The USB module uses SA9023 USB chip that can output maximum 96k/24 bit.  But the PCM63 only can accept maximum 48k/24 bits."


All ,a little confusing...??
Price is $506.00
+ shipping...???
If you want XLR,add $25.00
Comes with both Toslink & Coax.

I asked for pics...no response..still waiting

If anyone,has additional info,please let us know....


$500.00 for a 24/48 WOW:confused:
And people tell me my Hegel is overpriced.
 

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