[prot]

prot,

have not laid ears nor headphones on the Yggy (or Ragn) have ye?

I'm living in the EU and hopefully it is already clear for everyone that I did not.
And never will if the discussion continues on that path. Life's too short for chasing unicorns.

 

[jexby]

I'm living in the EU and hopefully it is already clear for everyone that I did not.
And never will if the discussion continues on that path. Life's too short for chasing unicorns.

 
 
completely understand this perspective.
 
however, having heard Yggy+Ragn with my own balanced cabled and HE-560 for 20min at RMAF-
my ears were transported into the "recording room" as the music sounded that realistic and that physical.
 
and with that will claim- some unicorns are real.

 

[Argo Duck]

Whether unicorns exist or not has nothing to do with whether the Yggy is a high performer. These are logically distinct things.

And yes - the problem of one's equipment disappearing has been raised :eek:

 

[wahsmoh]

[delete]

 

[wahsmoh]

Here's a neat little comparison from audiophilia website of the Assemblage (Sonic Frontiers) DAC-2 and DS Pro Progeny if any of you have heard one or the other this might be good for reference.
 
http://www.audiophilia.com/hardware/dac2.htm
 
"At the opposite end of the frequency spectrum, the DAC-2 had a satisfyingly deep bottom end, with only the deepest of deep bass notes getting short shrift. The throbbing bass lines on tracks from Holly Cole's Temptation didn't have quite the impact that they have via the Theta DS Pro Progeny, admittedly a processor with a price tag almost double that of the DAC-2's. The only minor quibble I have with the tonal balance of the DAC-2 is its apparent slight lack of energy in the lower midrange/upper bass region. On some discs, this imparted a touch of leanness to the sound of male voice and the lower registers of female voice. Mark Knopfler's voice, on Calling Elvis from the excellent Super Bit Mapped reissue of Dire Straits' On Every Street, lost some of its familiar gravelly texture, a texture that was more apparent through the DS Pro Progeny than through the DAC-2. In addition, Charlotte Neddiger's harpsichord on Tafelmusik's Bach Branderburg Concerto No. 5, had a more "tinkly" character and less authority to its lower registers than it has live or via the Theta processor. In all other respects, however, the DAC-2 proved to be formidable competition for the $995 DS Pro Progeny, in my opinion, one of the best under-$1000 processors. The DAC-2 was the Progeny's near-equal in the areas of imaging, soundstaging, and dynamics. The frequency range from the upper treble to the midrange was handled very well by both processors, the Theta managing to edge out the DAC-2 only from the lower midrange on down. One area in which the DAC-2 was the clear winner was in the area of detail retrieval, as the DAC-2 managed to mine the subtlest of detail from CDs, some of which the Theta glossed over. To be quite honest, before listening to the DAC-2, I had some reservations about comparing it to the DS Pro Progeny given the disparity in price between the two processors. The fact that the DAC-2 could not only compete with the Theta processor, but was actually able to better it in some areas, is a real testament to the skill of the engineers at Sonic Frontiers."
 
These impressions match up with how I feel and glad he took note of the lower mids and bass which I think are the best attributes aside from dynamics, imaging, and soundstage. Goodnight everyone and see you at CanJam 2015 if you are going

 

[estreeter]

 
Nah, I turn my gear on an hour beforehand if I can remember.

 
Then it would appear that your time with Yggy may be short and unpleasant if purrin's observations are accurate. 

 

[conquerator2]

Well, I am not keeping my gear on all the time :rolleyes:

 

[daerron]

Hmmm, with that kind of warm up time, I'll have to cancel my Yggy dreams. Unfortunately we have an energy crisis in our country and we have frequent forced 2 hour power breaks to ensure the ongoing stability of the electricity grid. Haven't got even a hope to get those 4 days of warm up time! Try living with Hi-Fi in an energy stricken country and suddenly audio as a hobby becomes a lot more complicated.. The frequent power cuts also cause spikes on the grid that can damage your equipment so you have to unplug everything from the wall.. I'm looking forward to receiving my Geek Out just so I can enjoy uninterrupted audio on my laptop through electricity black outs...

 

[Articnoise]

   
I dont know that there is anything to 'fix' - if you read Mike's thoughts on digital sources a few weeks back, he doesnt turn any of his gear off. Some claim that the digital clocks take at least 48 hours to stabilise - I have no idea how said stabilisation works, but if its true than that's something else to consider. Audiophiles are a funny bunch - something that would have almost any other hobbyist crying foul can be accepted in this hobby if the groupthink is sufficiently powerful. The 300-hour burn in seems to be some sort of standard now, but I've seen figures as high as 1000 hours and these were supposedly 'night and day' differences according to the reviewer in question. 
 
If the accepted wisdom turns out to be that you need to turn Yggy on and leave it on until the zombie apocalypse takes out the grid, then that's what I believe most owners will do. 

 

I have also read that some digital clocks takes 24- 48 hours to stabilize. IME it takes like 12-14 hours for the OR5 to sound descent and a little better still if left on for more than 24 hours. If I unplug it for just a few minutes or a longer time doesn’t matter much its back to square one. I don’t know the reason to this, but is probably not a thermal thing as much as a need for the voltage to stabiles or something else I/we don’t know about.

My Master 7 doesn’t sound as bad when been unplug as the OR5 but still sounds better if been on for some hours. I can power it off and when change a cable and put it on and not needing to go thru the long stabilizing thing like with the OR5. Both has a digital clock but react a bit different IME. M7 seems mostly be stabilized by thermal and OR5 by voltage or something else.

Regarding burn-in time. Some gears have capacitor that needs very long burn-in time. One notorious capacitor is the black gate that seems to sound its best after like 700 hours.   

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
Then it would appear that your time with Yggy may be short and unpleasant if purrin's observations are accurate. 

We will see, but I never hear these big warm-up differences anyway. I can't imagine any design having such a requirement to sound good. I can't believe leaving gear on doesn't shorten the life of the gear, but I'm not exactly at Mike's level am I? 

 

[prot]

 



I have also read that some digital clocks takes 24- 48 hours to stabilize. IME it takes like 12-14 hours for the OR5 to sound descent and a little better still if left on for more than 24 hours. If I unplug it for just a few minutes or a longer time doesn’t matter much its back to square one. I don’t know the reason to this, but is probably not a thermal thing as much as a need for the voltage to stabiles or something else I/we don’t know about.

If you dont know it and noone actually saw it or came up with an at least remotely reasonable explanation, then it's an unicorn... pretty much by definition. At least it is for me.
It may actually exist or it may not ... but I dont have the time or desire to care.

 

[evanft]

  OK. Just another 40 lbs. I guess we can put up a small Moffat DAC history museum at Canjam.
 
BTW I am bringing a spinner - Theta Basic III. Not dealing with computer audio at this meet, so burn CDs of your reference / favorite tracks. I may be reverting to spinners because my wife can't handle audio playback software on either PCs or macs. CDs make everything easier for older people like us.
 
On Yggy warmup:
 

• When cold, there's a steely / kettle drum timbre in the treble. It's also a bit lean and closed-in. The first two-four hours sucks. It sounds resolving and analytical.
• After four to eight hours, it's a little bit better. Yggy is now listenable. The treble timbre gets more normal. The stage open ups a bit. A very resolving DAC with excellent technicalities all around.
• After 24-48 hours, this is when the magic starts to happen. When you start to get fooled into thinking you are hearing the real thing at times.
• After four-seven days, the Yggy stabilizes - where the last vestiges of any kind of artificiality disappear.

 
Is the one you're bringing a pre-pro unit, similar to the one zero reviewed? I knew he said something about the warm-up time being an issue with that one.

 

[daerron]

Temperature changes in resistive networks can have effects on the linearity of the DAC. When its at optimum temperature and warmup the performance will be best and most consistent. I'm not sure whether temperature has an effect on the jitter performance of oscillators, but can imagine those having a settling time. Whether it is noticeable is a different question?

 

[Articnoise]

If you dont know it and noone actually saw it or came up with an at least remotely reasonable explanation, then it's an unicorn... pretty much by definition. At least it is for me.
It may actually exist or it may not ... but I dont have the time or desire to care.

 

If one can hear it, it exist. The fact that I don’t know the exact reason for it is not meaning it of less importance.  Hey science can’t even fully explain what energy is, still we can use it, make theories and calculating about it.

I have read that it has something to do with oscillators and voltage stabilizing. The why it will take that long time for the clock to stabilizing is a puzzle to me as well, but not making it unicorn in my book.

 

[coli]

It takes some time for the brain to adjust to new sound signature and be able to process it. The breakin/burnin time really depends on how plastic your brain is.
 
If you look at some highly rated musical speakers for example, they don't measure well at all, but they provide more information for the brain to convert into pleasure.