Its a screenshot from crinacles compare tool, the top headphone is the IER-Z1R, the bottom one is the FiiO FA9
Maybe its coincidence, but i highly doubt that a Balanced Armature Knowles SWKF-31736 driver performs that close to a Dynamic Sony 5mm driver
That doesn't mean that frequency response graphs are useless, at other frequencies there is quite a difference, i just think more people should take them with a huge grain of salt.
Wouldn’t analog DSP be ASP? If you want to know about the equipment studio engineers use, you should ask Gregorio. He can fill you in on that.
Saying that science is fueled by ignorance and hate is absurd. It invalidates any opinion you might have on science. If I was you, I wouldn’t go any further down that rhetorical road. It doesn’t lead to the place you want it to.
In fact, if you really believe that, you probably belong in a different forum. It would be pointless for you to continue here. All you will get is negative attention.
Just did an equipment check of the top 10 studios in the world. Here is only one. But everyone still uses tubes? Not everywhere all the time of course but be happy to get you the equipment racks which they are proud to show photography of in Facebook. Stacks of tube compressors. Guitar amps of course? So.....
The huge believe that nearly any DSP can shift the sound in any way is incorrect. Hence many producers are renting studios or buying expensive/bulky analog DSP to get closer to the sound that they want.
For casual listener I agree that you don’t need lots of money to get good sound today, but certain products have exceptional performance in specific areas where it’s hard or impossible to achieve.
Laughter from the folks that buys expensive gear makes me giggle. Maybe they are paid well and it is not worth to waste time and energy for a chance to get closer to a sound they want if they can simply get it with end product ?
Not against science, but unfortunately it is fueled by ignorance and hate. Would rather fallow honest folks opinion with experience and love to the music
The actual limitations are how much the qualified people(ultimate math guys) wish to work on simulating a given sound, how "dirty" that sound is, and maybe some legal issue about using the name of some other brand. For linear behavior in the frequency and time domain, simple impulse response and convolution will do. For non linear stuff, the need to fully characterize the non linear behavior will make things a good deal more difficult and I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. But I suspect it's still doable. My educated guess(probably wrong) would be that the bigger hurdle is trying to define a change when the output is buried in noise that we don't want.
I honestly suspect that most reasons to use old analog machines have little to do with objective performance and more to do with subjective(might not even be about sound) /practical choices. Like the guys who simply have decades of experience on a machine and never got into more modern equivalents or just never got as skilled while using them. I would completely understand if a dude who's deep into making synthwave, retrovewave or whatever it's called, tries to get all the second hand Moog synths he can find on ebay. All that makes total sense to me. It's in line with why people like that brand of musical instrument even though they're not objectively better(and sometimes not even subjectively found better when blind tested). Yet the preference is there and it will impact uses.
As you're the one who derailed that thread, I'm making a voodoo doll with your nickname on it. Your toes should start falling off after 3 to 6 weeks. It's part of my attempt at getting a more organic moderation.
Wouldn’t analog DSP be ASP? If you want to know about the equipment studio engineers use, you should ask Gregorio. He can fill you in on that.
Saying that science is fueled by ignorance and hate is absurd. It invalidates any opinion you might have on science. If I was you, I wouldn’t go any further down that rhetorical road. It doesn’t lead to the place you want it to.
In fact, if you really believe that, you probably belong in a different forum. It would be pointless for you to continue here. All you will get is negative attention.
Not the science itself, but the people who claims to know everything based on their approach to the science. In most cases too ignorant to see their own bias opinion. Certain gear can be very good, even if it doesn't measure properly, it exists for a reason..The chase for most accurate and correct sound can be similar to the chase of wild goose. Even harman curve changes year by year. You are paving your road as one and only correct, while different folks has different goals and taste in music.
I don't need to fallow any road as I've found the sound that I do enjoy fallowing my own ears, but thanks for an advice though....I hope that you will find more interest in things that you actually hear, dive into the musical journeys (I could guide you to some good threads in head-fi) and maybe we will see less mumblings from you about some rich folks who just likes glowing tubes and doesn't understand anything in audio...take care
Tubes are used in mike pres. There's a technical reason for that, but Gregorio would explain it better than I can. Tubes are not generally used for coloration except as effects, like with guitars. More and more, those effects have been replaced by RTA and VST plugins. (Guitar players tend to be holdouts because they love retro technology.) None of the uses of tubes in the studio bear any relationship to using tube amps in a home stereo. Redrol is absolutely correct about that. Studios use solid state amps to power their monitor system.
It is possible to find a home tube amp that performs as good as solid state, but it will certainly be more expensive and more difficult to maintain.
Musical enjoyment is separate from audio fidelity. Audio fidelity is simply making sure that the signal coming out isn't different than the signal going in. The definition of the best amp possible is "a wire with gain". Musical enjoyment is the domain of musicians and creative artists, not electronics. A perfect amp won't make lousy music any better, and great music making can still be appreciated with lousy sound reproduction.
The actual limitations are how much the qualified people(ultimate math guys) wish to work on simulating a given sound, how "dirty" that sound is, and maybe some legal issue about using the name of some other brand. For linear behavior in the frequency and time domain, simple impulse response and convolution will do. For non linear stuff, the need to fully characterize the non linear behavior will make things a good deal more difficult and I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. But I suspect it's still doable. My educated guess(probably wrong) would be that the bigger hurdle is trying to define a change when the output is buried in noise that we don't want.
I honestly suspect that most reasons to use old analog machines have little to do with objective performance and more to do with subjective(might not even be about sound) /practical choices. Like the guys who simply have decades of experience on a machine and never got into more modern equivalents or just never got as skilled while using them. I would completely understand if a dude who's deep into making synthwave, retrovewave or whatever it's called, tries to get all the second hand Moog synths he can find on ebay. All that makes total sense to me. It's in line with why people like that brand of musical instrument even though they're not objectively better(and sometimes not even subjectively found better when blind tested). Yet the preference is there and it will impact uses.
As you're the one who derailed that thread, I'm making a voodoo doll with your nickname on it. Your toes should start falling off after 3 to 6 weeks. It's part of my attempt at getting a more organic moderation.
I've tried paid plug-in for tube emulation. It is not difficult to use, but didn't got close to me. Would love to believe that you can shift sound in any way, as none of my headphones(Eq'ed or not) comes close to utopia which is stupidly expensive, but I do miss them...
Well at least I'm not using my foot much in this work from home environment!
I honestly suspect that most reasons to use old analog machines have little to do with objective performance and more to do with subjective(might not even be about sound) /practical choices. Like the guys who simply have decades of experience on a machine and never got into more modern equivalents or just never got as skilled while using them.
Beside that it's great for PR, way more impressive than a screenshot of some giga-mega VST effect plugin pack *insert current year edition* loaded on a track. Certain clients will ask to mix on specific gears if they see the studio has it, sometimes the engineer wakes up at morning and feels like it's a perfect day to work with analog gear for no particular reason... Besides throwing that stuff out like it was junk would be a sacrilige regardless of any objective performance. Of course the people working in the studios want to keep their old hardware. So yeah, there are plenty of practical reasons.
There are a bunch of different tube emulators and some of them have a wide range of adjustable parameters. You aren’t stuck with just one expensive one. There was an interesting thread on the topic here a couple of years ago.
Some of the free tube emulators I've tried just destroys the signal in a way that's not usable for mixing (can be cool for sound design though). Some of them even aliased so they can have an "objectively" worse performance than an actual tube amp. The wide range of adjustable parameters doesn't mean a lot when everything sucks between the max drive and just slightly above the minimum drive, and the character knob ranges from awful to terrible. If someone had a certain sound in mind and wanted to find something that can emulate it good enough, i'm sure they would have to look around for a while to find a plugin that fits their need.
I feel it's never a good thing to overgeneralize on such matters as there is always a place where tubes may increase the tone or get a tone that's not at all possible with plug ins. Not that I am an expert on this subject in any way. Though studios still seem to offer tube gear in places? Not everywhere, but it seems to have a use?
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