[Welly Wu]

It seems that Head-Fi is not engaged in a democratic process when it comes to implementing changes. We have to live with each bug and improvement as it comes along. Most other enthusiast discussion forums are similar. I would say that we have not even begun to see the true power of the Huddler system. If you visit their website, then you can see what kinds of changes could be implemented; however, the final decision is up to Jude.
 
So long as the hobbyists continue to flock here, we can get through any changes in the system while advancing our advocacy for our passion for headphones.

 

[Permagrin]

Quote:

What is the incentive to improve a search engine that allows users read about old products and opinions from people other than vendors?  On a similar note what is the incentive to keeping member's feedback intact (that may have been built up over many years) when it could disposed of thus making all non-commercial sellers appear equally unreliable?
 
How many regular users were surveyed on changes they'd like to see happen?  Who was giving all the input as to how this site should be changed?
 

 
The problem with the search engine is that it is broken when filtering by latest thread. It returns randomness. Thus people who may not want to start a new thread just to ask a oft-asked question would have to take hours paging through to find if there is a somewhat current relevant thread to use instead.
 

 

[ecclesand]

I went to leave feedback for someone yesterday and realized I needed to go their profile and click on the trader feedback link to do so.  A little confusing at first, but figured it out.  The entire FS section of the forum has an ebay feel to it.  I'm still deciding whether I like the new format or not.  Definitely some quirks.  I have not had any problems with the Search function...you just have to remember to select the forum you want, how sorted, blah blah blah.
 
As for the SNR of Head-Fi, it seems to be getting progressively worse.  Between all the noobs looking for the best skullcandy phone and the audio-gd fanboys this forum has devolved into any other forum on the web.  C'est la vie, I guess.

 

[Permagrin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I have not had any problems with the Search function...you just have to remember to select the forum you want, how sorted, blah blah blah.
 

 
Thanks, just now I went to advanced search instead of what I normally do which is typing straight into the basic search. I've found my problem. The default is keyword in post not in title (when using any other filter, such as sort by newest) which was why I was getting seemingly unrelated thread returns.
 

 

 

[Antony6555]

I fail to see how the new system "upgraded" anything beside Jude's ability to profit from the site．That said, if people stop visiting, that decreases his profit potential. So maybe he should think more carefully about this...

 

[Arlekiin]

Why dont use or integrate google search algorithm? 

 

[Welly Wu]

Before you came along, this had already happened with the original cast of characters here at Head-Fi nearly a full decade ago. It is a vicious and cyclical pattern that I have quietly observed for many years. The biggest difference is that the flow of traffic and new members that join increase on a weekly basis. We are going to reach unimaginable levels of activity that will put us on notice with the mainstream audiophiles that listen to speakers primarily, but have had to scale down their equipment racks due to the worsening economy and job market; they are looking for a good pair of headphones to supplant their listening habits for a multitude of reasons and the driving factor comes down to lower prices in our hobby compared to loudspeakers. $1,700.00 USD can buy you the top of the line headphones and cabling whereas it can buy you decent mid-fi loudspeakers if you shop around and buy used.
 
I do not have anything against growth for our hobby, but I have seen disturbing trends over the years that I felt compelled to put my thoughts into writing in a public forum because it got out of control in my experience.
 
Jude has a legitimate business to run. Would you wish to incur the massive investment that he plunked down so that we can enjoy the forum and community at no charge?
 
I do not make assumptions about things that I have no knowledge of, but I will state for the record that Head-Fi has been a loss leader for him for many years until there was enough members that spent a considerable amount of money to build up the headphone hobby. Just ask him directly what he went through to ensure this community stays online over the past several years especially when the US economy went into a deep recession several years ago.
 
It is my hope that by 2015 we will continue to see more members join and the mainstream audio media outlets take us more seriously as an emerging force to be reckoned with and written about in features.
 
Quote:

I fail to see how the new system "upgraded" anything beside Jude's ability to profit from the site．That said, if people stop visiting, that decreases his profit potential. So maybe he should think more carefully about this...

 

[Welly Wu]

We did use Google as an alternative search engine that was tuned for the old Head-Fi vBulletin system. It was far more effective than what we currently have with the new Huddler system. I have no idea if it can still be implemented and the costs to bring it back. You should ask Jude about this.
 
Quote:

Why dont use or integrate google search algorithm? 

 

[tuoppi]

I just wish Head-Fi would have stayed with vBulletin. It just is the best forum software. In headphone terms this change was like going from Stax to Bose.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

I just wish Head-Fi would have stayed with vBulletin. It just is the best forum software. In headphone terms this change was like going from Stax to Bose.

 
In terms of the lurch towards marketing-led content display, that's the best analogy I've seen so far

I can't say it bothers me that much, especially since I don't even lurk that often these days, but I do share your sentiment. The old vBulletin was far superior as a community base. The new 'social' stuff that's added adds to casual community building but I'm not sure it adds any depth.

 

[Sam-Fi]

Things should probably cool down in here or people are liable to get banned...

 
And I don't want any of my head-fi brothers to get banned.
 
(except maybe a few of you

)
 
 
Sam

 

[Welly Wu]

Without Huddler, Head-Fi would stay stuck in the past had Jude chosen to stick with vBulletin. Furthermore, the forums and the entire community would not be able to harness the full power of social networking, robust photographic capabilities, incorporation of blogs and Wikis, and even streaming video on demand along with the flexibility to adopt future leading edge technologies. Jude saw that the old vBulletin system was no longer adequate enough and he did not want Head-Fi to stagnate and get left behind in the dust with old technology. Truth be told, Huddler is primarily designed for a younger audience that grew up with modern technologies such as Facebook, Wikipedia, Flickr, and Vimeo; old timers such as myself have no need for these superfluous features set. I really do not care if we use vBulletin or Huddler or something else because I am here for the long haul and I just want to post threads and replies to topics that I am interested in. I know the audience here changes every several months, but this is where I am comfortable with the regulars that have responded to my threads.
 
My problem is not with the Huddler system; my problem is with the crass advertising that come from a burgeoning number of sponsors and the shady deals that have become commonplace in the for sale, for trade, or to buy forums. No technology is perfect. No technology can prevent and resist fraud and poor business transactions. It is up to the community at large to stay on the defensive. My greatest concern is not the rough conversion to the Huddler system; it is with the ethos of our community that has been long lost such as trustworthiness, a genuine desire to help others, and still have clean fun on occasion. I quietly disagreed with some of the additional rules that were set in place years ago such as the political correctness toward fellow members and especially to our sponsors and members of the trade. However, I have done my best to comply even though the outcome of bad product designs and worse business practices soured the atmosphere ever since Head-Fi became a business to be reckoned with.
 
I am not trying to get myself banned; rather, I am stating my opinions which have been shared by other long time members through communications channels completely outside the realm of the Head-Fi system. To those whom I corresponded with, they are long gone. We lost a tremendous amount of deep friendships, knowledge, experience, and good will when they stopped visiting Head-Fi for good. There are some days when I surprise myself by logging in and participating in the various forums. I sometimes wonder what is the point anymore. I already have a top of the line audio system and a two pairs of headphones that I will keep forever. However, I remember my early days here when I failed to do a search before starting another thread about a well known pair of headphones. Back in those days when our numbers were modest, members (that no longer visit Head-Fi anymore) helped me out and I found satisfaction and aural bliss for that time period until new technologies and advancements in our hobby compelled me to acquire higher quality components. Today, there is so much noise that no one can hear a yelp for help from new or even not so new members. It has become a hyper competitive culture here like a race to see who can afford to buy the latest and greatest components and the manufacturers and sponsors have stood up and taken notice. I get e-mail messages to my Google Gmail address asking me to review a new product launch; I simply ignore such requests because I am a big believer in the value of ownership and I do not appreciate being used as a shill for any company. Unfortunately, other members see things differently. They genuinely believe that mass producing reviews is beneficial to the community. I strenuously disagree. The ownership experience tells a lot about the reviewer's tastes and biases. They have put their money where their mouth is. Sometimes, flattery is not the highest compliment that can be paid unto others. Professional audio reviewers do this all the time and they earn their salaries and perks. So be it. It is their calling and job. I still read their reviews in the major audio magazines with interest, but to tell the truth my interest is heading toward the direction of computers, programming, databases, and security applications. High end audio has taken a back seat for me as I have made a successful career change into the IT world.
 
In conclusion, I think these changes to the new Huddler system are going to take time before community members realize the full potential of its unique features set (which are still being developed) in the coming weeks, months, and perhaps years from today. However, it still is not enough to solve the problems that I have outlined as a long time member in earlier posts within this thread alone. That requires an upgrade in ethics and morality when a people choose to do business here and with one another. No technology can solve that problem and the rules that have been instated to prevent and deal with abuse and fraud are the tools that we have at hand given that we are communicating in a virtual online world here. As for myself, if I want to buy another high fidelity component such as the Grado PS-1000 I will go to my local authorized Grado dealer or I will find one and make the commute. There is a reason why I earned a sterling reputation because I am a seller more than a buyer here. I also limit my business because I went through the cyclical buy/sell/buy again/sell again phase as I was trying to figure out which sound I wanted and which compromises I could live with. To tell the truth, I spent well over $15,000.00 USD from the first day that I joined Head-Fi until today on my components. I know that I am not done either. I have been buying more music than usual because I recently received multiple sources of income as my personal fortunes have improved quite dramatically. Today, I literally have the money to buy a new pair of Grado PS-1000 headphones and a Sager Notebook NP7280 with all of the hardware and software upgrade options, but I am hesitant to spend an enormous amount of money after acquiring my Audio Technica ATH-W5000 "Raffinato" headphones and my ASUS N61JV-X2 laptop.
 
Quote:

 
In terms of the lurch towards marketing-led content display, that's the best analogy I've seen so far

I can't say it bothers me that much, especially since I don't even lurk that often these days, but I do share your sentiment. The old vBulletin was far superior as a community base. The new 'social' stuff that's added adds to casual community building but I'm not sure it adds any depth.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Things should probably cool down in here or people are liable to get banned...

 


And I don't want any of my head-fi brothers to get banned.


 


(except maybe a few of you

)


 


 


Sam

The mods must not have noticed this thread yet.

As for the advertising/merchandising angle, there's another perspective you all should consider.

It goes without saying that there are costs involved with running a website. Servers, bandwidth, professionally administered software, and much else are legitimate expenses. This site would not be here if someone wasn't paying those bills. Advertisers and sponsors help out a lot. So do the individual contributors, who are genuinely appreciated.

Now, where do all of these marketers come from? If you go back a couple of years, a new Member of the Trade ("MOT") showed up once or twice a month.

Today, we're tagging one or two MOTs every day.

The MOTs are not massive retailers with 400 outlets in the United States. The MOTs, by and large, are Head-Fi members. You guys. Lots and lots of people are trying their hand at starting and running a small business and they've chosen to use this community.

So the big commercial push is - for the most part - an internal one. The community here is sprouting new businesses. That's because people here buy from their friends and people they know, so, naturally, you're going to get startups.

Let me be clear: I think this is a good thing. I like to see small businesses and startups. It's healthy and many of the biggest companies here started out of a garage. We're getting some great products from this - look at what Audez'e has done.

The tricky part comes in managing the combination of business and social activity. Like I said, Head-Fi needs revenue to stay online. That revenue comes from advertisers and sponsors. Unfortunately, we are not able to let people advertise for free.

If you were paying to sponsor your own forum and supporting Head-fi, how would you feel about free advertising given to someone else? You'd probably want to stop paying for advertising, right? So we have to keep tabs on who is a MOT and make sure those who pay for advertising get what they paid for. Otherwise, there won't be any money to keep the lights on.

There have been a lot of comments about Huddler. If you find a bug or have a feature suggestion, please put it in the Bug/Feedback Forum. People are paying attention there and there is a good deal of work going on behind the scenes. Nothing I can reveal, but I'll see Jude and others working here, quietly, at all hours of the day and night. Everything won't be perfect tomorrow or next week, but it is being worked on.

 

[Welly Wu]

Thank you for this reply. I will stop my criticisms of Head-Fi and the Huddler system.

 

[Antony6555]

Head-fi was profitable before the huddle system, so implementing the huddler system is just a way to make it MORE profitable, it's not about the survival of head-fi.
 
Quote:

There have been a lot of comments about Huddler. If you find a bug or have a feature suggestion, please put it in the Bug/Feedback Forum. People are paying attention there and there is a good deal of work going on behind the scenes. Nothing I can reveal, but I'll see Jude and others working here, quietly, at all hours of the day and night. Everything won't be perfect tomorrow or next week, but it is being worked on.

So we have to wait for all of this to happen before we achieve the level of functionality we had BEFORE the system was implemented?