Thinking about upgrading for better sound, but where to start? (~$200)
Jul 13, 2005 at 2:35 AM Post #31 of 67
Why dont you try something with a different sound, like the SR-60s or the MS-1s and get a cheap amp like the cmoy or even the pocketamp.

ms-1s + pa2 = ~$155

there are 100s of alterntatives of course though
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 2:39 AM Post #32 of 67
Well, I don't want to waste money by experimenting with different sound; I'd rather spend that money first on the sound I'm already used to, and then experiement afterwards. Plus, I don't want to buy 2 headphone amps (One cheap one for MS-1s and a better one for the DT880s/HD600s).
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 3:06 AM Post #33 of 67
I'd hardly call experimenting with different sounds "wasting your money." You might actually turn out to prefer the Grado or HD6x0 signature to anything you've heard so far.

Again: what is there that stops you from trying some of these expensive headphones out in an audio store before buying them?
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 3:35 AM Post #34 of 67
Quote:

Originally Posted by SDA
Again: what is there that stops you from trying some of these expensive headphones out in an audio store before buying them?


Trying to find an audio store nearby that'll actually carry "real" headphones? A dedicated audio store would already be hard to find, let alone one that'd carry good headphones.
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 4:19 AM Post #35 of 67
I'm gonna go against the grain and say 'aim for the top'

If you want some 880s, then buy some 880s. dont bother buying some cheap grados this week if you're gonna be buying 880s next week. Just get a suitable amp later when you can afford it. I'm sure you can point up with an unamped 880 for a few months instead of a500s, if it will lead to beautiful sound in a few months when you get an amp

And buy second hand. Save cash that way.
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 4:31 AM Post #36 of 67
I guess DT880s are the way the go; it's just those comments people make about the DT880s unamped that make me weary of their performance compared to the A500s. You know, how people say that if you even want sound to come out, get an amp. I know that they'll still function without an amp, but comments like these do have some truth behind them.
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 4:36 AM Post #37 of 67
I'm sure they wont sound wonderful without an amp, but you can buy one when when you can afford it, and then it will sound great. in the meantime it will just sound okay.

Build a cmoy. it's a start and costs like $5
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 4:46 AM Post #38 of 67
Does anybody know if the DT880s on B&H Photo and Video have a straight cord or coiled? What about with Headroom and TTVJ? Now the only part left is the fact that the A500s are closed and the DT880s are semi-closed. I've already been having some isolation problems with the A500s in that too much sound is being leaked out. Will I encounter the same problem but worse with the DT880s? And I believe that there is also a natural sonic difference between closed semi-closed headphones?
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 6:35 AM Post #39 of 67
(after the fact note: this post ended up being waay too long, I must have just been venting during the wee hours. I think it turned out to be a decent read, so I’ll go ahead and post this sucker. Scroll to the last paragraph for the relevant part)


ARRRRRRRGGGG!!!
Ok, now that that's out of my system, let's take a min to recap recent events for our friend azure here.
First you spent a year agonizing about whether to take the plunge and buy a decent set of headphones. Then after you finally decided to stop worrying about it and just buy them already, you encountered an extreme case of buyer’s remorse. Then you tried blaming your purchase on all of us for supposedly misleading you. Now you want to drop another 200 bucks because you weren't satisfied with the first 100 you spent. <sigh>

Ok, look I’m not trying to be offensive here, so if I’m coming off all haughty.. Please just bear with me.

First of all I’m going to reiterate that sound is a very subjective thing. Not only are there differences in hearing, but here are also differences in listening attention, musical preferences and expectations. Good sound isn't something you can quantify; you just have to listen to it and decide if it's enjoyable for you.
Second, if you haven’t figured it out already let me be the one to tell you that we're not all perfect. Just because one person makes a recommendation or tells you that 128 mp3's are crap or tells you that you need to run out and buy ms-1's doesn’t mean you should listen to them. I mean really, this is all subjective anyway. I say I love my etymotic's and you will find many other people say they can’t stand the sight of them. Also you will often find that we all become fanboys or haters of one piece of equipment or another. If I didn’t have more important obligations, I might be inclined to buy some koss ksc 75's in bulk and roam the earth spreading the good sound love. When you hear me recommend the 75's you need to keep that in mind, because I’ll swear up and down that they deliver practically the best sound anyone in their right mind would need. I’m sure there are more that a few here that might disagree with that statement.

Thirdly, and here is where my real recommendation to you lies and please don’t take this the wrong way.

GO AWAY!!!

I really mean this is most helpful sense possible. You just spent a year hyping up your 500's and you're going to need at least another year to readjust your expectations. Audiophile headphones aren’t like buying a 52" plasma TV. You aren’t going to always get that in your face wow this is so much better feeling. It’s much more akin to sipping a fine wine. Essentially everyone here is a wine snob; they just use their ears to do the tasting. As much as people here will tell you how dramatic and universal the improvement in sound is, such statements really boil down to nothing more than opinions. A wine snob may not be able to fathom how a person could eat a pasta dinner without a 78' merlot, but they are failing to remember that there are people out there who hate wine and would rather have a good draft. Sound quality isn't hugely relevant to the appreciation of music, just like the wine isn't hugely relevant to the appreciation of a meal. Only a wine snob would really care to notice, the rest of us would probably rather have a coke. Good gear won’t make bad music into good music. No system, no matter how highly priced is going to get someone who’s not that into music in the first place to start tapping their foot. I put my mom on the receiving end of 600$’s worth of signal path, and after 20 seconds she just gives me a little smile and says, “sounds nice honey” and wanders off. In fact, no one I’ve ever let listen to my system comes even close to “getting it”.

I’m not saying that there isn't any gratification in this hobby, because there's plenty to be had. But like many hobbies, it's not as simple as popping down a 100 bucks and calling it a day. When I got my first headphones (grado sr-80's) I went through something very close you what you’ve been going through There was a difference, but it wasn’t the night and day difference that I was expecting. Sure I liked what I got, but I was a little embarrassed that I’d gotten suckered into paying 100 bucks for them. It took a year of use before I really started to appreciate their finer characteristics. Looking back on it, the subjective experience of listening to them has completely changed over the 3 year period I’ve owned them. Some might call it burn in, but its really much less the cans burning in as it is your ears+brain. As I became more familiar with the sound, I was increasingly able to pick out details and nuances in the music that would have been lost on me when I first got them. I went from disliking the grados to being non-pulsed to enjoying them, to loving them. My ety's were a similar story. When I got them the sound was detailed but unlistenable. As I got more acquainted to the way they put out music and how to deal with their idiosyncrasies, I went from almost returning them to relishing the near-perfect sound they now give me.

In short, once you get over a 100 bucks, the sound gear stops being a means to an end, and starts being the end. If you want good sound, pick up a pair of koss 75's and never come back here ever again. If you want to enter into the head-fi hobby, a serious commitment that you'll derive years of enjoyment (and loan payments) from, I suggest you look into the grado sr-225's, or many the senn 600's... oh possibly the akg 240's i hear thoes are good... and ray's coming out with a new pocket amp called a hornet or something, eveyone seems to be getting in line for that( you'll be after me) or maybe you should check out a allasan..........
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 6:55 AM Post #40 of 67
dougmwpsu : Fantastic post.

Azure : To be honest, if you want a 'wow' effect with headphones from the A500's you will most likely need to shell out more than $200. $200 for a single component is little enough, $200 spread amongst your whole system is extremely meager.

If you buy another pair of headphones, like the Sennheiser HD600's, it will still sound like poop because your other components are lacking. You CANNOT expect exceptional sound quality driving THESE type of headphones straight out of a Rio Karma!

If you buy an amplifier, you will need to get a Line Out out of your Rio Karma. But then again, the A500's are supposedly impervious to amplification, so you're stuck in the deep end again with the A500's.

Your source. If you want better sound, you HAVE to upgrade from 128kbps. If you are planning on running an HD600 or anything in it's price range on 128kbps mp3 files, then you really shouldn't even bother upgrading.

You want something that can combine the two. A relatively inexpensive amplifier ($70 for a Pocket Amp V2), paired with the Sennheiser HD595 (refurbished at eCost for $160 I think?) will be your best bet. But then again, if you're not planning on upgrading your source, then I wouldn't bother.

Edit : Take it one step at a time. Try buying a Pocket Amp V2, or another inexpensive amp (like the Z you mentioned), pairing it up with some lossless files, and see how much of a difference it makes with the A500. THEN move on to the DT880's if you feel that it is inadequate.
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 7:04 AM Post #41 of 67
...I don't get it. Where did this post come from? Maybe you missed it, but after a nice, long burn-in and time to adjust to the A500 sound I'm LOVING them. I was just caught up in my excitement the first time I heard them and I was caught up in my disappointment for a little while after having them. This is why I was "disappointed," but now I like and appreciate the sound. The purchase is in the past and I don't have buyer's remorse anymore, so price isn't affecting my perception of what I'm hearing anymore. And I AM aware that I already made the biggest jump possible and that the improvements from here on out will be much smaller. I am also aware that everybody's views are subjective, which is why I like to research in depth and try to get as close to an unanimous recommendation for something before I buy it. I can assure you that I learned my lesson from the whole A500 fiasco and I've set my priorities and expectations straight. I don't expect to spend as long as I did with the A500s on future purchases because I feel that the first step is always the hardest one. Now I have a much better idea of what to expect and can relate (At least somewhat) to people's descriptions. In actuality, I expected to spend half the time it took to get the A500s, but due to some events I had to push the date back (And in the end it was worth it).

I didn't "blame" all of the A500 fiasco on you guys, I just said that one can easily see how I got my expectations too high by your descriptions. In the end, it is my fault and definetly not the head-fi community's. I just felt that I was being bombarded by everyone saying that I was way off base and stupid for expecting something "magical," when, by your descriptions, one cannot expect anything but magical to come from the headphones. Later I realized that audiophiles tend to exaggerate, something that I definetly could have used before using the A500s for the first time. Anyways, this is in the past now and I've moved on (and I hope you guys can too, though I think most of you have already forgotten about it).

I was actually interested in getting into this world of headphones as a hobby since I LOVE my music. Which is also why I started this thread. I want to delve further into it by hearing the next level (However minute it will be), but I want to get my "serious" rig first. After that, I want to start experimenting with other headphones. I DO plan to get alessandros/grados since I'm curious as to what "being on stage" will sound like; at the same time I'm also curious about what being in the distant and laid-back audience will sound like with some Senns. But I'd like to concentrate first on what I've already heard and can be sure that I'll enjoy.

Exactly why I'm being asked to "go away" I don't understand, but if it's because of the whole A500 fiasco and my endless questions, then I'll try to tone it down. If it is more serious than that, then I'll consider leaving head-fi and just go to some other audiophile place (Hopefully you guys don't have accounts there, too
icon10.gif
).
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 7:09 AM Post #42 of 67
Quote:

Originally Posted by Azure
...I don't get it. Where did this post come from? Maybe you missed it, but after a nice, long burn-in and time to adjust to the A500 sound I'm LOVING them. I was just caught up in my excitement the first time I heard them and I was caught up in my disappointment for a little while after having them. This is why I was "disappointed," but now I like and appreciate the sound. The purchase is in the past and I don't have buyer's remorse anymore, so price isn't affecting my perception of what I'm hearing anymore. And I AM aware that I already made the biggest jump possible and that the improvements from here on out will be much smaller. I am also aware that everybody's views are subjective, which is why I like to research in depth and try to get as close to an unanimous recommendation for something before I buy it. I can assure you that I learned my lesson from the whole A500 fiasco and I've set my priorities and expectations straight. I don't expect to spend as long as I did with the A500s on future purchases because I feel that the first step is always the hardest one. Now I have a much better idea of what to expect and can relate (At least somewhat) to people's descriptions. In actuality, I expected to spend half the time it took to get the A500s, but due to some events I had to push the date back (And in the end it was worth it).

I didn't "blame" all of the A500 fiasco on you guys, I just said that one can easily see how I got my expectations too high by your descriptions. In the end, it is my fault and definetly not the head-fi community's. I just felt that I was being bombarded by everyone saying that I was way off base and stupid for expecting something "magical," when, by your descriptions, one cannot expect anything but magical to come from the headphones. Later I realized that audiophiles tend to exaggerate, something that I definetly could have used before using the A500s for the first time. Anyways, this is in the past now and I've moved on (and I hope you guys can too, though I think most of you have already forgotten about it).

I was actually interested in getting into this world of headphones as a hobby since I LOVE my music. Which is also why I started this thread. I want to delve further into it by hearing the next level (However minute it will be), but I want to get my "serious" rig first. After that, I want to start experimenting with other headphones. I DO plan to get alessandros/grados since I'm curious as to what "being on stage" will sound like; at the same time I'm also curious about what being in the distant and laid-back audience will sound like with some Senns. But I'd like to concentrate first on what I've already heard and can be sure that I'll enjoy.

Exactly why I'm being asked to "go away" I don't understand, but if it's because of the whole A500 fiasco and my endless questions, then I'll try to tone it down. If it is more serious than that, then I'll consider leaving head-fi and just go to some other audiophile place (Hopefully you guys don't have accounts there, too
icon10.gif
).



It's all good man. This is what head-fi is for.

But honestly, shell out more cash! Upgrade everything at once, or try getting the best sound out of the A500's first. The source is the biggest issue right now, I think. Have you tried uncompressed files, to see what big a difference there is? Maybe you should try that, and then buy a small inexpensive amp to try to further the A500 sound some more. If it still doesn't meet your expectations, sell the A500 for some extra cash and buy the top headphones of your choice. At least then you will be able to know whether or not the purchase was justifyable, with no remorse. A small inexpensive amp goes a long way from being ampless - I should know :wink:.
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 7:14 AM Post #43 of 67
Quote:

Originally Posted by akwok
Azure : To be honest, if you want a 'wow' effect with headphones from the A500's you will most likely need to shell out more than $200. $200 for a single component is little enough, $200 spread amongst your whole system is extremely meager.


I'm not looking for that same "fake" headphones -> "real" headphones effect. I just want tighter bass, clearer highs, and non-recessed mids.

Quote:

If you buy another pair of headphones, like the Sennheiser HD600's, it will still sound like poop because your other components are lacking. You CANNOT expect exceptional sound quality driving THESE type of headphones straight out of a Rio Karma!


I'm well aware that higher end cans definetly require an amp and I only plan to use them unamped until I find the money to get a decent amp. I have NO plans to use these headphones only straight out of my Karma. Like I said earlier, I can afford one in a few months and the other a few months later. Just which one to get first is what I was asking (And I've decided to get headphones).

Quote:

If you buy an amplifier, you will need to get a Line Out out of your Rio Karma. But then again, the A500's are supposedly impervious to amplification, so you're stuck in the deep end again with the A500's.


The Karma has a line out and the amp is for the DT880s, not A500s. If I was going to get the amp first, I wouldn't be buying for use with the A500s, so I wouldn't judge the amp just by its performance with the easily driven A500s.

Quote:

Your source. If you want better sound, you HAVE to upgrade from 128kbps. If you are planning on running an HD600 or anything in it's price range on 128kbps mp3 files, then you really shouldn't even bother upgrading.


UGH! Will whoever is spreading the rumor that all I listen to is 128kbps Kazaa mp3s please SHUT UP? Yes, some of my songs are 128kbps, but most of the songs that I listen to are 320kbps and will be FLAC this Christmas.

Quote:

Edit : Take it one step at a time. Try buying a Pocket Amp V2, or another inexpensive amp (like the Z you mentioned), pairing it up with some lossless files, and see how much of a difference it makes with the A500. THEN move on to the DT880's if you feel that it is inadequate.


I don't even want to bother with the A500 + amp combo, so I'd rather go with the DT880s anyways since I've been planning on getting them anyways.
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 7:40 AM Post #44 of 67
Abuse a place with a good return policy, I say.

Toddthevinyljunkie, anyone?

Buy the DT880, since that's what you seem to be interested in.

If you don't like it, send it back. Get something else...repeat until you are satisfied. If you aren't satisfied ever, run far away from this site.

-Matt
 
Jul 13, 2005 at 12:41 PM Post #45 of 67
I am feeling extremely frustrated now. Azure is the exact duplicate of me. Exact.


I've been thinking about upgrading from my A500s.
I have the same exact system and setup that Azure has right now.
I've been thinking about getting the DT880s.
I think and would say the same things that Azure said, if I could (but of course, Azure says them before I do).
I have the same budget.
I had the same expecations and are asking the same questions.

Hahahaha.
biggrin.gif
 

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