thieaudio phantom information?

[jsmiller58]

FR graphs really are there just for reference. Depending on the rig and how the headphone is secured on the rig you can get crazy variance in the results. For example here is the FR graph on the Linsoul Page for the Phantoms.


As you can see it is way different from the one the guy on hifiguides forum took. So I would take FR graphs with a grain of salt.

One thing about the graph you included - the y-axis is way too stretched out, and is a trick that vendors employ to make an FR look much better behaved than it really is.

But otherwise I agree with your point - take graphs with grain of salt. And I included lots of caveats about not knowing anything about how those graphs were generated and how other cans would look on the same rig with the same approach. I am skeptical as well...

But... Listening to these I hear something very similar to what the graph tells me... That's why it was an interesting graph to me. May not be the same in the case of others, and I understand.

 

[jsmiller58]

Here is another FR Graph comparing the Sundaras with the Phantoms from Hifiguides forum

Once again it is very different from the other 2 FR graphs. There are similarities like the dip starting at 1-2k, but you can't judge a headphone just by the FR graph alone.

...

Sorry made a mistake on this one. Went back to get better context for this and it is just an FR Graph of the Sundara.

Yep, I know about that notch, and how it is intended to compensate for an area where our ears are very sensitive (probably having to do with how the sound arrives at the ear from a headphone, because I don't think IEMs have the same notch, but I might be wrong).

But there is a notch (Sundara) and there is a Grand Canyon... . I have the Sundara and definitely hear a vastly different tonality, with the Phantoms being much darker and with overall less dynamism and clarity. This seems to be consistent with the graphs... But that is my experience and others may hear it completely differently!

 

[jsmiller58]

Here is another FR Graph comparing the Sundaras with the Phantoms from Hifiguides forum

Once again it is very different from the other 2 FR graphs. There are similarities like the dip starting at 1-2k, but you can't judge a headphone just by the FR graph alone.

...

Sorry made a mistake on this one. Went back to get better context for this and it is just an FR Graph of the Sundara.

Wow that is very different! They look very similar on this. But, being able to do side by side listening, they are not tonally similar TO ME.

You are right - how a headphone sounds is a lot more than its FR. But headphones with very similar FRs ought to have a lot of tonal similarities. Maybe not twins, but first cousins. To my ears the Sundara and Phantoms are not first cousins.

Anyone else have both that they can comment on?

 

[OldDude04]

I got some custom grills in today for my Phantoms. Idea behind the design was a mixture of crosshairs and fitting in a letter P for Phantom. I think the dark stain looks fantastic on the headphones. I'm not 100% sure the guy who made them wants me to point people his way, so I'm waiting to hear back from him on it. Anyway, here are a few pics:

 

[OldDude04]

I got some custom grills in today for my Phantoms. Idea behind the design was a mixture of crosshairs and fitting in a letter P for Phantom. I think the dark stain looks fantastic on the headphones. I'm not 100% sure the guy who made them wants me to point people his way, so I'm waiting to hear back from him on it. Anyway, here are a few pics:

I heard back, and they said they'd love to do some more. If you would like a set, PM @LUCILLE667. Very easy to work with a great communication.

 

[AJCxZ0]

I got some custom grills in today for my Phantoms.

Very nice. What material is that?

 

[OldDude04]

Very nice. What material is that?

It's laser cut wood.

 

[antdroid]

I received a review unit at the end of August from Linsoul and have been messing around with the Phantoms off an on for a little over a month now. I will put up a full written review later but here's my impressions of them in the past month:

Unboxing/Out of box impressions:
What. They sounded really bad. I mean, I didn't think these were tuned right at all. Bass was rolled-off, upper mid-range and lower treble was non-existent and most of the treble was rather dark. Tuning was really not appealing to me at all. Also they gave me 5 pads (5?) all of the same kind.

Messing around impressions:
So, as many in this hobby like to do, I started taking it apart and seeing if I could figure out why. And it was quickly apparently why. Taking the pads off, the driver is completely covered by a thick rectangular piece of foam. This dampens away all the treble/upper mids. Removing that was like allowing fresh air into the thing. Still, the stock pads weren't doing it. I ended up using any of my ZMF pads I use with my Verite and/or Dekoni pads I had on my Hifimans and they sounded much tighter, elevating the treble response as well as bringing back more of the bass roll-off.

More tweaks:
Removing the back grill, I discovered the driver was again, blocked by Foam on the backside!! Removing that foam and removing the vinyl on the grill itself brought back subbass. I'm still trying to mess around with what to do here exactly. I don't like the driver totally exposed, plus there's an occasional slight ringing in the treble response, but I don't like how non-porous the vinyl/fabric material that covers the grill is, so I will have to search for a thin foam or fabric to use here.

So finally, after these little tweaks -- essentially, removing all the dampening materials and letting the driver have more air, and a change of pads, the Phantoms are starting to sound rather nice and much more balanced. They are now quite comparable to the Hifiman Sundara or HE560 (though I think they sound more like Sundara from memory).

 

[antdroid]

 

[jsmiller58]

I received a review unit at the end of August from Linsoul and have been messing around with the Phantoms off an on for a little over a month now. I will put up a full written review later but here's my impressions of them in the past month:

Unboxing/Out of box impressions:
What. They sounded really bad. I mean, I didn't think these were tuned right at all. Bass was rolled-off, upper mid-range and lower treble was non-existent and most of the treble was rather dark. Tuning was really not appealing to me at all. Also they gave me 5 pads (5?) all of the same kind.

Messing around impressions:
So, as many in this hobby like to do, I started taking it apart and seeing if I could figure out why. And it was quickly apparently why. Taking the pads off, the driver is completely covered by a thick rectangular piece of foam. This dampens away all the treble/upper mids. Removing that was like allowing fresh air into the thing. Still, the stock pads weren't doing it. I ended up using any of my ZMF pads I use with my Verite and/or Dekoni pads I had on my Hifimans and they sounded much tighter, elevating the treble response as well as bringing back more of the bass roll-off.

More tweaks:
Removing the back grill, I discovered the driver was again, blocked by Foam on the backside!! Removing that foam and removing the vinyl on the grill itself brought back subbass. I'm still trying to mess around with what to do here exactly. I don't like the driver totally exposed, plus there's an occasional slight ringing in the treble response, but I don't like how non-porous the vinyl/fabric material that covers the grill is, so I will have to search for a thin foam or fabric to use here.

So finally, after these little tweaks -- essentially, removing all the dampening materials and letting the driver have more air, and a change of pads, the Phantoms are starting to sound rather nice and much more balanced. They are now quite comparable to the Hifiman Sundara or HE560 (though I think they sound more like Sundara from memory).

Keep playing with these and post your further thoughts on how to improve the sound. I have been vocally critical of the Phantoms and their tuning / SQ. I have tried all of the mods you note here, and still not satisfied with the sound. The one I will try later today is to put the large rectangular foam that had been on the ear side of the pad to the grill side. Needs some foam somewhere to tame the treble spikes... I wonder if what we need is foam about half as thick...

So far I haven’t achieved anything that to me even comes close to what the Sundara sound like, so if you have then you are better off than I am. While I am not one to usually mod headphones, I will keep holding out hope and be willing to try to improve these.

 

[antdroid]

Keep playing with these and post your further thoughts on how to improve the sound. I have been vocally critical of the Phantoms and their tuning / SQ. I have tried all of the mods you note here, and still not satisfied with the sound. The one I will try later today is to put the large rectangular foam that had been on the ear side of the pad to the grill side. Needs some foam somewhere to tame the treble spikes... I wonder if what we need is foam about half as thick...

So far I haven’t achieved anything that to me even comes close to what the Sundara sound like, so if you have then you are better off than I am. But, I will keep holding out hope!

I still would prefer either of the Hifiman's over the Phantom, modded as is in it's current state. They also leak a lot! They work well as desktop speakers hah!

I think my current issue is that the treble has a bit of ringing -- a la M1060? I'll continue to play around with it as I have time. I'll have to post a review of it stock vs all the mods. I've done a bunch of measurements on it too, but can't totally solve the sound signature. It does lean closer towards an Audeze LCD type sound than my much more preferred hifiman style sound.

 

[jsmiller58]

I still would prefer either of the Hifiman's over the Phantom, modded as is in it's current state. They also leak a lot! They work well as desktop speakers hah!

I think my current issue is that the treble has a bit of ringing -- a la M1060? I'll continue to play around with it as I have time. I'll have to post a review of it stock vs all the mods. I've done a bunch of measurements on it too, but can't totally solve the sound signature. It does lean closer towards an Audeze LCD type sound than my much more preferred hifiman style sound.

I would say that TO ME the Audeze LCD house sound is like a thick, wet, wool blanket thrown over music, but then I would be cast out and banished to the wilderness... So, I won’t say that!

 

[antdroid]

Here's a graph of my current Thieaudio Phantom mods (orange) vs stock Hifiman HE560 (black) vs stock Audeze Mobius using it's Audeze house sound DSP tuning (blue).

 

[jsmiller58]

Here's a graph of my current Thieaudio Phantom mods (orange) vs stock Hifiman HE560 (black) vs stock Audeze Mobius using it's Audeze house sound DSP tuning (blue).

I have never listened to the 560, so I need to be careful. From what I have heard the Sundara and 560 have some similarities, and if that is true, then this graph does have similarities to what I am hearing - a much darker sound where at 1KHz and above the Phantoms sound is much more recessed compared to the 560 (and I assume Sundara).

But, for some they may enjoy that signature. I have read reviews where people find the Sundara to be too bright, and for them the Phantoms might be very appealing. Unfortunately that does not describe me.

Oh, and yeah, the Moebius FR... yeah, I’ll pass!

 

[antdroid]

I have never listened to the 560, so I need to be careful. From what I have heard the Sundara and 560 have some similarities, and if that is true, then this graph does have similarities to what I am hearing - a much darker sound where at 1KHz and above the Phantoms sound is much more recessed compared to the 560 (and I assume Sundara).

But, for some they may enjoy that signature. I have read reviews where people find the Sundara to be too bright, and for them the Phantoms might be very appealing. Unfortunately that does not describe me.

Oh, and yeah, the Moebius FR... yeah, I’ll pass!

It's been a while since I heard the Sundara, but it was reminiscent of the Hifiman HE560, but a little bit smoother treble response, but not as well extended in both bass and treble. The HE560 was a bit more edgier, which people find bright (it's that drop in the 1-2K followed by a spike up in the upper midrange that can get you).

The orange line (Phantom) is much darker and drops off a cliff without all the mods.