[RockLee]

Thank you for your answers, but I was already thinking of updating my cable for a long time, because this cable is very thin and sometimes it is rough, sharp when the high frequencies occur, other brands have thicker sizes, better caliber that can change the difference in sound, not so much but it helps somewhat

I also have spinfit and other eartips, but I see that the sound is the same

The voices of the Monarch MK II there are moments that are very sweet but very sweet that you feel comfortable , I'm not kidding, but I have felt sometimes they sink a little and I think it is because of the cable that comes from the factory, it is not so high quality

I'm especially looking at an Effect Audio, but I don't know which model to buy.

 

[RockLee]

Sony and AK daps have slightly pushed back mids. I also hear the vocals bit less forward with the MMk2 when using sp1000 than i remember them when using Shanling M8.
But Sony daps have great EQ so you can tailor the sound to your liking.

I'm a sound purist, and using EQ loses a lot of information, that's my opinion.

 

[Twangsta]

Quite an interesting read this thread has been so far. My brief summary, or perhaps understanding so far...

MK2 survives unscathed as potential top of it's tier, the price point, mostly.

MK2 vs MK3 reads more like a library difference, as far as keeping the same name from TheiAudio's perspective.

Besides the MK2 being awesome in most sonic departments, but some questions about it's mid bass being less, and or sub bass too much, the attribute that commonly shared was it's lack of texture, but some have reported it's a scaling issue and that is much improved with mid to higher tier sources.

Those are MY takeaways from the thread.

I've been listening to the MK2 all week, almost every waking hour.

My personal view is that more than being library dependant, the MK2 seems to mirror the tracking/mastering session rather precisely, the MK2 has been very talented in this regard, is this a common trait amongst good IEMs?

I'm using an M1 -> iTunes -> RME Babyface Pro -> MK2 with bit rate switching. I don't know how the RME unit stacks up against audiophile gear, they are know to be transparent, this headphone amp section is a huge step up from it's previous model which was rather under powered.

• Output: 6.3 mm TRS jack, unbalanced
• Output impedance: 10 Ohm
• Output level at 0 dBFS, 1 kOhm load: +13 dBu
• Max power @ 0.1% THD: 50 mW
  
  
• Output: 3.5 mm TRS jack, unbalanced
• Output impedance: 2 Ohm
• Output level at 0 dBFS, 1 kOhm load: +7 dBu
• Max power @ 0.1% THD: 70 mW

I don't know how to compare these values to the high end consumer dac/amp, they don't tell us a lot more other than it uses FPGA based DSP but not sure what kind of DAC exactly.

On asking GPT4 to convert those values to what's normal quoted by HiFi manufacturers this is what it had to say:
6.3 mm TRS Jack, Unbalanced:
Output Voltage at Load: Approximately 2.71 Vrms
3.5 mm TRS Jack, Unbalanced:
Output Voltage at Load: Approximately 1.64 Vrms

I'm using the 3.5mm output, so it further added:
With a driver sensitivity of 108 dB/mW and a maximum power handling of 70 mW, the in-ear monitors can reach a maximum sound pressure level of approximately 126.5 dB.
...followed by a brief lecture on hearing safety.

I have little reference knowledge other than my ancient HD800 and an OG Lehmann Black Cube Linear (BCL).

The MK2 on the BCL was less intimate with recessed mids, much less refined on the highs but with some extension, strong but again less refined(tight) in the bass, oddly slightly larger sound stage than the RME amp.

Could be a matter of preference but I suspect, overall the BCL fared rather poorly compared to the preciseness of the RME headphone out. The BCL is connected to the RME's main XLR outs -> RCA. I did listen to it using a green audioquest 3.5 to RCA, the BCL retained it's V shaped character.

I need help over what would be a good portable DAP or DAC/Amp for the MK2. My three price points are $1000, $1500 and $2000. I understand I will have access to a better DAC/Amp vs DAP at any given price point. I like the flexibility of iTunes, I don't have any other hi rez streaming in my country. Personally I'm leaning towards a DAP with iTunes that will switch the sample rates etc accordingly.

Please help me make an informed decision, there are so many ways to do this I'm rather overwhelmed, I understand the mids can be a bit recessed in a large amount of recordings/mixes but it's not always the case, for example in Anne-Sophie-Mutter Recital 2000, violin and piano is just incredible, last three tracks on that album is sublime with the RME, I don't want to lose that balance. I'm ok with listening to the mix and not my preference, though I'm very intrigued by especially Mojo 2 users about their EQ habits? I've been kind of leaning on the mojo 2 from what I understand, which is very little.

I really could use some advice. Thanks.

 

[Yanec]

Quite an interesting read this thread has been so far. My brief summary, or perhaps understanding so far...

MK2 survives unscathed as potential top of it's tier, the price point, mostly.

MK2 vs MK3 reads more like a library difference, as far as keeping the same name from TheiAudio's perspective.

Besides the MK2 being awesome in most sonic departments, but some questions about it's mid bass being less, and or sub bass too much, the attribute that commonly shared was it's lack of texture, but some have reported it's a scaling issue and that is much improved with mid to higher tier sources.

Those are MY takeaways from the thread.

I've been listening to the MK2 all week, almost every waking hour.

My personal view is that more than being library dependant, the MK2 seems to mirror the tracking/mastering session rather precisely, the MK2 has been very talented in this regard, is this a common trait amongst good IEMs?

I'm using an M1 -> iTunes -> RME Babyface Pro -> MK2 with bit rate switching. I don't know how the RME unit stacks up against audiophile gear, they are know to be transparent, this headphone amp section is a huge step up from it's previous model which was rather under powered.

• Output: 6.3 mm TRS jack, unbalanced
• Output impedance: 10 Ohm
• Output level at 0 dBFS, 1 kOhm load: +13 dBu
• Max power @ 0.1% THD: 50 mW
  
  
• Output: 3.5 mm TRS jack, unbalanced
• Output impedance: 2 Ohm
• Output level at 0 dBFS, 1 kOhm load: +7 dBu
• Max power @ 0.1% THD: 70 mW

I don't know how to compare these values to the high end consumer dac/amp, they don't tell us a lot more other than it uses FPGA based DSP but not sure what kind of DAC exactly.

On asking GPT4 to convert those values to what's normal quoted by HiFi manufacturers this is what it had to say:
6.3 mm TRS Jack, Unbalanced:
Output Voltage at Load: Approximately 2.71 Vrms
3.5 mm TRS Jack, Unbalanced:
Output Voltage at Load: Approximately 1.64 Vrms

I'm using the 3.5mm output, so it further added:
With a driver sensitivity of 108 dB/mW and a maximum power handling of 70 mW, the in-ear monitors can reach a maximum sound pressure level of approximately 126.5 dB.
...followed by a brief lecture on hearing safety.

I have little reference knowledge other than my ancient HD800 and an OG Lehmann Black Cube Linear (BCL).

The MK2 on the BCL was less intimate with recessed mids, much less refined on the highs but with some extension, strong but again less refined(tight) in the bass, oddly slightly larger sound stage than the RME amp.

Could be a matter of preference but I suspect, overall the BCL fared rather poorly compared to the preciseness of the RME headphone out. The BCL is connected to the RME's main XLR outs -> RCA. I did listen to it using a green audioquest 3.5 to RCA, the BCL retained it's V shaped character.

I need help over what would be a good portable DAP or DAC/Amp for the MK2. My three price points are $1000, $1500 and $2000. I understand I will have access to a better DAC/Amp vs DAP at any given price point. I like the flexibility of iTunes, I don't have any other hi rez streaming in my country. Personally I'm leaning towards a DAP with iTunes that will switch the sample rates etc accordingly.

Please help me make an informed decision, there are so many ways to do this I'm rather overwhelmed, I understand the mids can be a bit recessed in a large amount of recordings/mixes but it's not always the case, for example in Anne-Sophie-Mutter Recital 2000, violin and piano is just incredible, last three tracks on that album is sublime with the RME, I don't want to lose that balance. I'm ok with listening to the mix and not my preference, though I'm very intrigued by especially Mojo 2 users about their EQ habits? I've been kind of leaning on the mojo 2 from what I understand, which is very little.

I really could use some advice. Thanks.

No need to spend big money. My sincere advice would be to skip on the snake oil and go for two dongles given that one of them performs as a reference totl desktop gear and the other offers the best of the coloured "analog-ish" type of sound. Get both.

1. Tanchjim Space, desktop reference level conversion and amplification, please check Amir's review on ASR.

and

2. HiBy FC6, use it in NOS mode for the most pure non processed conversion which some label as "analog" sounding. Actually very synergistic with MMK2 solving the mid bass scoop issue.

Get both and use both depending on your mood or the musical genre. I have many more but honestly I don't need anything more.

 

[o0genesis0o]

I need help over what would be a good portable DAP or DAC/Amp for the MK2. My three price points are $1000, $1500 and $2000.

For DAP, I prefer Hiby R6 Pro 2. It sounds nearly as good as my DX300 (good here means detail, dynamic, staging, that sorts of stuffs. Hard to explain by words, but I guess you know what I mean). If you are willing to go all the way to $2000, the brand new R8II is no brainer. I had a preview video of this one on my youtube channel a few weeks back.

I also like the sound of FiiO Q7 and M17. These two make IEMs sound “larger”, as if all the volume swings are larger and snappier. Can be too energetic, but surprisingly fun.

I heard good things about the brand new iBasso DX260. And of course, with your budget you can grab the big bro DX320 and even an additional amp card with digital tubes.

Another options worth considering:

• Shanling M6 Ultra: adding noticeable warmth to the sound. Might be enjoyable.
• HiBy R4: brand new, Android DAP with 4 ESS DAC chip and class A amp for $250. I’m having one coming for review but I have good feeling about this, given that the R3II was a good option for the low price tag.

Edit: my daily carry is Luxury and Precision W4 paired directly with iPhone. Nearly as good as the likes of M6 Ultra and similar DAPs, though a bit behind the TOTL like DX300. Doesn’t really matter, tbh.

 

[Twangsta]

Thank you @Yanec and @o0genesis0o for your replies

Tanchjim Space, desktop reference level conversion and amplification, please check Amir's review on ASR.

I have a ddHiFi - TC44Pro arriving tomorrow, it's using the same exact chip but I'm not sure how different the implementations will be sonically. So that's a start.

HiBy FC6, use it in NOS mode for the most pure non processed conversion which some label as "analog" sounding. Actually very synergistic with MMK2 solving the mid bass scoop issue.

Funny you mention this, I cancelled a Cayin - RU6 to order the TC44Pro over thinking it, but now that you mention this style of DAC I will reorder it after I spend a week with the TC44Pro. I've been moonlighting as a guitar player for three decades and I love the 80s rack equipment that I believe used similar tech, there's a certain warmth and glisten that the new stuff just can't do without a lot of help after the fact.


I've been digging more and more about all this and have come to the conclusion all the DAPs I'm attracted to are massive monolithic bricks. This needs some more consideration.

the brand new R8II is no brainer

Especially the R8II, it's glorious I'm sure but I really need to consider the form factor, I'm still on the fence on this, I was also very intrigued by the A&K SE300.

I like the things you good folks said about some devices being warm, coming from the HD800 over a decade I can sure use some warmth, though they're so broken in it's a sound signature I had gotten used to.

Inevitably, my curiosity will get the better of me. I think I'll learn about the R2R vs delta sigma style dac/amps before I look into which style I end up spending on a flagship.

I'm digressing but I've been going back and forth with audirvana, itunes, didn't bother renewing my roon sub as I was happy with iTunes. I think audirvana sounded better but roon has the chops on presentation. Also I've stopped maintaining a local library since iTunes went lossless/hirez. I need to read up on the best way to get back to this, I also have a fear of perpetual subscriptions, they make it too damn convenient, and it's everywhere, reminds me of that ominous campaign "you will own nothing, and you will be happy", devil business.

I live in a rural area so there's no way for me to test stuff out, I think I ought to make a trip and audition all I can, but you guys are super informative even if it's all subjective, I too found my preferred profile tends to be the Cricacle camp, though I have not experienced much.

 

[Yanec]

Thank you @Yanec and @o0genesis0o for your replies


I have a ddHiFi - TC44Pro arriving tomorrow, it's using the same exact chip but I'm not sure how different the implementations will be sonically. So that's a start.

Funny you mention this, I cancelled a Cayin - RU6 to order the TC44Pro over thinking it, but now that you mention this style of DAC I will reorder it after I spend a week with the TC44Pro. I've been moonlighting as a guitar player for three decades and I love the 80s rack equipment that I believe used similar tech, there's a certain warmth and glisten that the new stuff just can't do without a lot of help after the fact.


I've been digging more and more about all this and have come to the conclusion all the DAPs I'm attracted to are massive monolithic bricks. This needs some more consideration.

Especially the R8II, it's glorious I'm sure but I really need to consider the form factor, I'm still on the fence on this, I was also very intrigued by the A&K SE300.

I like the things you good folks said about some devices being warm, coming from the HD800 over a decade I can sure use some warmth, though they're so broken in it's a sound signature I had gotten used to.

Inevitably, my curiosity will get the better of me. I think I'll learn about the R2R vs delta sigma style dac/amps before I look into which style I end up spending on a flagship.

I'm digressing but I've been going back and forth with audirvana, itunes, didn't bother renewing my roon sub as I was happy with iTunes. I think audirvana sounded better but roon has the chops on presentation. Also I've stopped maintaining a local library since iTunes went lossless/hirez. I need to read up on the best way to get back to this, I also have a fear of perpetual subscriptions, they make it too damn convenient, and it's everywhere, reminds me of that ominous campaign "you will own nothing, and you will be happy", devil business.

I live in a rural area so there's no way for me to test stuff out, I think I ought to make a trip and audition all I can, but you guys are super informative even if it's all subjective, I too found my preferred profile tends to be the Cricacle camp, though I have not experienced much.

I have the TC44Pro, it is good but lower dynamics, resolution/details and space. I compared the Tanchjim Space and the TC44Pro in blind test AB myself, my wife and several friends.

Actually on the blind test, 7 out of 7 people chose the HiBy FC6 as their preferred sound (test done in NOS mode on both Monarch MK2 and Qiwi Quintet). Tanchjim Space and Tempotec Sonata BHD Pro (NOS mode) were the two other most liked dongles out of a group of 15-16 dongles.

I have also tried the R6Pro II to me it is basically indistinguishable from the Space and the Sonata BHD Pro (in OS mode). Which is absolutely logical and expected looking at how they measure and given they are all in-chip delta-sigma oversampling dacs.

Haven't tried the R8 II but I personally would buy any day a flagship phone and several different dongles over a DAP at this price.

 

[Twangsta]

I have the TC44Pro, it is good but lower dynamics, resolution/details and space. I compared the Tanchjim Space and the TC44Pro in blind test AB myself, my wife and several friends.

How low down was the TC44Pro? Based on what you say I feel I should return it and get on the R2R side of the equation first. Would you say your sample preferred the sound of R2R over delta sigma devices?

 

[Yanec]

How low down was the TC44Pro? Based on what you say I feel I should return it and get on the R2R side of the equation first. Would you say your sample preferred the sound of R2R over delta sigma devices?

In direct comparison it lacked the top bit that makes it completely transparent in terms of detail, dynamics and stage. Only in direct comparison.

As to r2r vs delta-sigma I would argue you really should have both. Different styles of music and different moods call for one or the other. As an example, r2r is like the THX mode of your TV, the d-s is when you boost that sophisticated sharpness setting of the TV to make it super resolving on high res material although not realistic. Both can be enjoyed.

The FC6 itself sounds better to me than the RS2 and RS6 and it can be seen in their measurements on the official site. Of course the daps have more power but for iems and many headphones the FC6 is absolutely sufficient for very loud listening. And if you get also the Tanchjim Space it will drive the hack out of most gear using the balanced out. That's one thing the FC6 lacks - balanced out. But I simply carry both plugs with me, easy to switch on the Monarch cable.

I do recommend having both worlds. R2R is a very euphonic listen when you simply enjoy your music or listen for long hours as a background to your activities. And delta-sigma is for the moment when you want to analyze and focus on that extra sharpness of some micro details. Also each of the two flavours can be more synergistic to certain iem tunings.

 

[Twangsta]

In direct comparison it lacked the top bit that makes it completely transparent in terms of detail, dynamics and stage. Only in direct comparison.

As to r2r vs delta-sigma I would argue you really should have both. Different styles of music and different moods call for one or the other. As an example, r2r is like the THX mode of your TV, the d-s is when you boost that sophisticated sharpness setting of the TV to make it super resolving on high res material although not realistic. Both can be enjoyed.

The FC6 itself sounds better to me than the RS2 and RS6 and it can be seen in their measurements on the official site. Of course the daps have more power but for iems and many headphones the FC6 is absolutely sufficient for very loud listening. And if you get also the Tanchjim Space it will drive the hack out of most gear using the balanced out. That's one thing the FC6 lacks - balanced out. But I simply carry both plugs with me, easy to switch on the Monarch cable.

I do recommend having both worlds. R2R is a very euphonic listen when you simply enjoy your music or listen for long hours as a background to your activities. And delta-sigma is for the moment when you want to analyze and focus on that extra sharpness of some micro details. Also each of the two flavours can be more synergistic to certain iem tunings.

You my friend have saved me a lot of money. I shall get both types. Next will be the space dongle.

Just out on a ride, decided to use the mk2 with a mw2000 neckband. It sounds damn good, it has no business sounding this good. The mk2 is doing all the heavy lifting. What a set, so glad I decided on these.

 

[RIGATIO]

In direct comparison it lacked the top bit that makes it completely transparent in terms of detail, dynamics and stage. Only in direct comparison.

As to r2r vs delta-sigma I would argue you really should have both. Different styles of music and different moods call for one or the other. As an example, r2r is like the THX mode of your TV, the d-s is when you boost that sophisticated sharpness setting of the TV to make it super resolving on high res material although not realistic. Both can be enjoyed.

The FC6 itself sounds better to me than the RS2 and RS6 and it can be seen in their measurements on the official site. Of course the daps have more power but for iems and many headphones the FC6 is absolutely sufficient for very loud listening. And if you get also the Tanchjim Space it will drive the hack out of most gear using the balanced out. That's one thing the FC6 lacks - balanced out. But I simply carry both plugs with me, easy to switch on the Monarch cable.

I do recommend having both worlds. R2R is a very euphonic listen when you simply enjoy your music or listen for long hours as a background to your activities. And delta-sigma is for the moment when you want to analyze and focus on that extra sharpness of some micro details. Also each of the two flavours can be more synergistic to certain iem tunings.

The FC6 is simply amazing when it comes to the realism and timbre but it lacks in soundstage department. The width is ok but the depth is very weak and everything plays very close to the face. It can be annoying for some. Its really aggressive and forward. I loved the FC6 but when compared to the DC Elite, i didnt think much and sold the Hiby.
Elite is on another level entirely, as i mentioned in other threads already, it plays in the 1000-1500 dol DAP price bracket.

 

[Yanec]

You my friend have saved me a lot of money. I shall get both types. Next will be the space dongle.

Just out on a ride, decided to use the mk2 with a mw2000 neckband. It sounds damn good, it has no business sounding this good. The mk2 is doing all the heavy lifting. What a set, so glad I decided on these.

Oh god, how could I forgot the Shanling MW200 (I think it's 200 not 2000 if we're talking about the same) It is my daily driver in the office - ldac maximum quality settings to the MW200 which carries my Monarch Mk3.

It is a great device with very good Asahi Velvet sound dac and amp. Filters are adjustable and the firmware can be updated via the Shanling app. Best thing for wireless iems! As soon as my wife tried it she dumped her apple thingies got the MW200 too and a set of Oracle Mk2 (basshead preferences...)

 

[Yanec]

The FC6 is simply amazing when it comes to the realism and timbre but it lacks in soundstage department. The width is ok but the depth is very weak and everything plays very close to the face. It can be annoying for some. Its really aggressive and forward. I loved the FC6 but when compared to the DC Elite, i didnt think much and sold the Hiby.
Elite is on another level entirely, as i mentioned in other threads already, it plays in the 1000-1500 dol DAP price bracket.

Did you try the 1.7 firmware? It changed quite a lot the sound. Some love the Darwin Ultra filter introduced with it. I personally enjoy the NOS especially after the 1.7 update it has a very good stage in my experience. Of course it doesn't have the sharp highs which sometimes create additional sense of space, but its actual stage is quite good.

 

[Twangsta]

Oh god, how could I forgot the Shanling MW200 (I think it's 200 not 2000 if we're talking about the same) It is my daily driver in the office - ldac maximum quality settings to the MW200 which carries my Monarch Mk3.



It is a great device with very good Asahi Velvet sound dac and amp. Filters are adjustable and the firmware can be updated via the Shanling app. Best thing for wireless iems! As soon as my wife tried it she dumped her apple thingies got the MW200 too and a set of Oracle Mk2 (basshead preferences...)

Yes, that's exactly it, sorry my bad, it's the MW200, I need to find more before the last one is sold, mine have been used so much with a Tin T4, the kevlar inner cables are showing at the join. I think I'll get an MK3 as well instead of all that fancy DAP stuff. More mileage I think. Your wife is as wise as you are it seems

 

[Yanec]

Yes, that's exactly it, sorry my bad, it's the MW200, I need to find more before the last one is sold, mine have been used so much with a Tin T4, the kevlar inner cables are showing at the join. I think I'll get an MK3 as well instead of all that fancy DAP stuff. More mileage I think. Your wife is as wise as you are it seems

They are disappearing indeed, there's a store selling them new on ebay. Chinese guy super cooperative and quick.

The wife has to buy you a beer now after such nice words I tried to get away with giving her the Kiwi Quintet which is an amazingly thoughtful product, they really worked a lot to tune it. It has sub bass a bit higher than Harman but she wanted like 5-6 db bass on top of Harman and picked the Oracle Mk2 which sounds really V shaped yet with the typical Thieaudio mids.