[MD1032]

I really don't understand what the OP is trying to accomplish here. We listen to headphones because we can't be blasting speakers all the time but still have a strong need to listen to music. Speakers are better. Most of us have agreed on this countless times. There's no replacement for the visceral impact of sound on the entire body, plus speakers are inherently capable of better fidelity and flatter response.

Yes, headphones are a compromise... then again, so are all speakers, amplifiers, sources, recording equipment, and most importantly, instruments! Headphones are all about finding what sounds best to you... the OP is obviously obsessed with a flat frequency response, and there are plenty of headphones designed to accomplish that. The HD600 is not one of those headphones. I find it extremely ironic that all of the headphones the OP lists in his original thread are headphones that I hate... I just can't help but wonder how he would react to simply attending a Head-Fi meet and hearing some real equipment. I think my setup sounds really good with my Grado HF-1's with flat pads (definitely not flat at all!!), then again, I've also enjoyed many electrostatic setups, some Sennheiser setups... it's all about synergy and what sounds best to you.

The only way to figure that out is to just try out a lot of headphones. I got lucky and found what I liked immediately... just because the OP is unlucky doesn't mean he should just give up, in my opinion. Then again, it sounds like he's fed up. So be it. Try blasting organ music at 12:27 AM through your speakers like I am through my headphones and find out how popular your choice is.

Sometimes I think people need to just shut up and enjoy the music. If you can't enjoy the music you're listening to because of a couple minor peaks in the sound, you're too disconnected from music to consider this a worthwhile hobby. Some of the coolest things I've ever heard have come through my friends' crappy ipods with crappy earbuds that they brought with them on band trips with me. I didn't throw them down in disgust because they possessed inadequate fidelity, I kept listening because what they were having me listen to was excellent.

 

[mbd2884]

@ BHTX, while you may have more knowledge of audio production... And can criticize the Head-Fi community for not being as knowledgeable as you... But knowledgeable about what? Peaks and reading graphs? So what?

If I was in your shoes, I would be extremely jealous of the Head-Fi community for their ability to be able to lie back and enjoy their music with the intimacy and details their headphones provide, that the most neutral speakers CANNOT provide.

That's just me, if I was you, I would be burning and almost borderline insane with jealousy.

I feel sorry for you, that you can't enjoy your music with the advantages that just about any headphone provides over your ideal neutral speaker setup.

Loreena McKennit - The Mummer's Dance just sounds sublime with my HD650s right now as I'm lying here. So relaxing, I love it, all those peaks and whatever else that has made you so aggravated, all of it, sounds beautiful. All the knowledge about audio production, if it were to change my musical bliss, I don't want it then. I'm supremely happy in my ignorance.

 

[Pistachio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was summarizing what he was saying. Did you read the text in quotes? I am really having trouble understanding how you can't see why his post would be offensive.

Indeed, his posts are patronizing, they are, knowingly or unwittingly insults. This is after listening to colored headphones through a Sonus + OBH. He expects flat response from mid-fi headphones with sub-par gear in his audio chain? None of which are targeted for flat response? Even then, I would be interested in hearing these 20db peaks, that is four times the volume of other sections of the sonic spectrum, it is verging on dangerous.

 

[BHTX]

Wow. Speechless. The sheer ignorance illustrated within the vast majority of posts at this forum is simply astounding. The poor arguments raised are so easily refuted, it's all so absurd. Is everyone here in high school? I've never seen another forum like this in all my life. It's like you're all from another planet. People here don't even care to take the time to read. No one even wants to share or obtain useful information of any sort whatsoever. It's like you're all just posting to be posting, increasing a post count, and throwing your silly little signatures around. Headphone meets? For what?? To see who's got the most high priced boutique items, standing around all day ********ting about them? This place is insane, no doubt about it. I was well aware of this before I started this thread, which is exactly why I started it the way I did. If this is what owning headphones is about, I don't want any part of it. It's no wonder I can't find a decent set of cans, if this is the type of audience they're geared towards. I'd initially thought that maybe this thread would attract people who share my interests, and something useful could come out of it. While there obviously are a lot of decent people around here, they're much too few and far between. I tend to be the easy going type, always willing to try to get along. However, I honestly don't see how some of you can stand it here. Are there any other headphone related forums in existence that don't possess such negative qualities as this one? Or, is this really the predominant disposition of headphone aficionados everywhere? I'd already apologized long ago for offending anyone. Intentionally offensive? Not up until now. I'm amazed at how so many of you are still posting in this thread, and I think that raises an obvious question. Good luck to all of you.

 

[Pistachio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHTX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. Speechless. The sheer ignorance illustrated within the vast majority of posts at this forum is simply astounding. The poor arguments raised are so easily refuted, it's all so absurd. Is everyone here in high school? I've never seen another forum like this in all my life. It's like you're all from another planet. People here don't even care to take the time to read. No one even wants to share or obtain useful information of any sort whatsoever. It's like you're all just posting to be posting, increasing a post count, and throwing your silly little signatures around. Headphone meets? For what?? To see who's got the most high priced boutique items, standing around all day ********ting about them? This place is insane, no doubt about it. I was well aware of this before I started this thread, which is exactly why I started it the way I did. If this is what owning headphones is about, I don't want any part of it. It's no wonder I can't find a decent set of cans, if this is the type of audience they're geared towards. I'd initially thought that maybe this thread would attract people who share my interests, and something useful could come out of it. While there obviously are a lot of decent people around here, they're much too few and far between. I tend to be the easy going type, always willing to try to get along. However, I honestly don't see how some of you can stand it here. Are there any other headphone related forums in existence that don't possess such negative qualities as this one? Or, is this really the predominant disposition of headphone aficionados everywhere? I'd already apologized long ago for offending anyone. Intentionally offensive? Not up until now. I'm amazed at how so many of you are still posting in this thread, and I think that raises an obvious question. Good luck to all of you.

You hardly need offense to be intentional. Unintentional or not it is patronizing and your arrogant opinion of people on this forum is self-evident even if you don't mean it to be.

I don't even spend much time here, I honestly believe a good portion of the people here are utterly crazy audio-elitists who don't have a clue, but you sir are a cut above even them. So much so that I in my 5 years of being a member here, I haven't posted anything for the last 4. But your attitude made me have no choice.

 

[kukrisna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHTX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. Speechless. The sheer ignorance illustrated within the vast majority of posts at this forum is simply astounding. The poor arguments raised are so easily refuted, it's all so absurd. Is everyone here in high school? I've never seen another forum like this in all my life. It's like you're all from another planet. People here don't even care to take the time to read. No one even wants to share or obtain useful information of any sort whatsoever. It's like you're all just posting to be posting, increasing a post count, and throwing your silly little signatures around. Headphone meets? For what?? To see who's got the most high priced boutique items, standing around all day ********ting about them? This place is insane, no doubt about it. I was well aware of this before I started this thread, which is exactly why I started it the way I did. If this is what owning headphones is about, I don't want any part of it. It's no wonder I can't find a decent set of cans, if this is the type of audience they're geared towards. I'd initially thought that maybe this thread would attract people who share my interests, and something useful could come out of it. While there obviously are a lot of decent people around here, they're much too few and far between. I tend to be the easy going type, always willing to try to get along. However, I honestly don't see how some of you can stand it here. Are there any other headphone related forums in existence that don't possess such negative qualities as this one? Or, is this really the predominant disposition of headphone aficionados everywhere? I'd already apologized long ago for offending anyone. Intentionally offensive? Not up until now. I'm amazed at how so many of you are still posting in this thread, and I think that raises an obvious question. Good luck to all of you.

I do thank you for answering my questions. It's nice to have a bit of context in relation to opinion. That being said, it seems you just don't appreciate headphones at the moment, nor do you appreciate this community. I'm sorry we do not live up to your expectations, so I wish you the best of luck with your pursuit of happiness.

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHTX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. Speechless. The sheer ignorance illustrated within the vast majority of posts at this forum is simply astounding. The poor arguments raised are so easily refuted, it's all so absurd. Is everyone here in high school? I've never seen another forum like this in all my life. It's like you're all from another planet. People here don't even care to take the time to read. No one even wants to share or obtain useful information of any sort whatsoever. It's like you're all just posting to be posting, increasing a post count, and throwing your silly little signatures around. Headphone meets? For what?? To see who's got the most high priced boutique items, standing around all day ********ting about them? This place is insane, no doubt about it. I was well aware of this before I started this thread, which is exactly why I started it the way I did. If this is what owning headphones is about, I don't want any part of it. It's no wonder I can't find a decent set of cans, if this is the type of audience they're geared towards. I'd initially thought that maybe this thread would attract people who share my interests, and something useful could come out of it. While there obviously are a lot of decent people around here, they're much too few and far between. I tend to be the easy going type, always willing to try to get along. However, I honestly don't see how some of you can stand it here. Are there any other headphone related forums in existence that don't possess such negative qualities as this one? Or, is this really the predominant disposition of headphone aficionados everywhere? I'd already apologized long ago for offending anyone. Intentionally offensive? Not up until now. I'm amazed at how so many of you are still posting in this thread, and I think that raises an obvious question. Good luck to all of you.

Unfortunately, buddy, you can't always choose whether people will take things with offense. When you make loads of comments that insinuate or outright state that you're superior in aspects A,B and C to almost everyone here, whether you like it or not we're all going to see you as a pretentious *******. And, honestly, it's clear you don't want to discuss headphones, so why look for another forum? All you want to do is preach the speaker gospel, denounce headphones (without having hear anything beyond midrange, too, that's the icing on the cake) as colored filth and insult everyone who disagrees. Or at least that's the sense I got from you.

Oh, and people responded because people always respond to trolls and big aggressively-stated generalizations. It's not because we're all closet speaker lovers and are trying to justify wasting money on worthless headphones. Some of us came to offer advice, others to offer different views. Some to flame, of course, this IS the internet. The fact that you're writing us all off as arrogant children is telling. But I could have seen that coming, you seem to like generalizing.

It's fortunate you didn't enjoy headphones, I think this community could definitely do without you. See you later.

 

[komi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHTX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. Speechless. The sheer ignorance illustrated within the vast majority of posts at this forum is simply astounding. The poor arguments raised are so easily refuted, it's all so absurd. Is everyone here in high school? I've never seen another forum like this in all my life. It's like you're all from another planet. People here don't even care to take the time to read. No one even wants to share or obtain useful information of any sort whatsoever. It's like you're all just posting to be posting, increasing a post count, and throwing your silly little signatures around. Headphone meets? For what?? To see who's got the most high priced boutique items, standing around all day ********ting about them? This place is insane, no doubt about it. I was well aware of this before I started this thread, which is exactly why I started it the way I did. If this is what owning headphones is about, I don't want any part of it. It's no wonder I can't find a decent set of cans, if this is the type of audience they're geared towards. I'd initially thought that maybe this thread would attract people who share my interests, and something useful could come out of it. While there obviously are a lot of decent people around here, they're much too few and far between. I tend to be the easy going type, always willing to try to get along. However, I honestly don't see how some of you can stand it here. Are there any other headphone related forums in existence that don't possess such negative qualities as this one? Or, is this really the predominant disposition of headphone aficionados everywhere? I'd already apologized long ago for offending anyone. Intentionally offensive? Not up until now. I'm amazed at how so many of you are still posting in this thread, and I think that raises an obvious question. Good luck to all of you.

LoL ....

Did you actualy read what you are posting here? And - what other nice guys are posting? But thatnks for "Good Luck" wishes ... I am new on this forum, and i can say" I am lucky to meet some guys here, and lucky to have one more hobby and thing to do - making my self more happy ... "

Did your girlfriend leave you 2 days ago or something ...?

If there is a Mod around will be good to close this topic ...


Yall have a nice holyday !

 

[CDBacklash]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHTX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. Speechless. The sheer ignorance illustrated within the vast majority of posts at this forum is simply astounding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHTX /img/forum/go_quote.gif True, loudspeakers are all "flawed" as well, but not like THIS. I do agree that headphones can still be very enjoyable at times, and often more "intimate" than any loudspeaker.

Glad we settled that then.
Need I point out that dynamic headphones are *technically loudspeakers? >.>
still..

 

[Donald North]

Here is an informative article from Stereophile on the art and science of measuring headphones:

Stereophile: Between the Ears: the art and science of measuring headphones

They discuss what the ideal frequency response of headphones should be. There are differing opinions: same as loudspeakers free field on axis, free field 30 degrees off axis, similar to loudspeakers in a diffuse environment (aka diffuse field equalization) or variations thereof. Even headphones which are advertised as diffuse field equalized do not follow the same contour.

It's good reading for everyone.

 

[karthur]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHTX /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. Speechless. The sheer ignorance illustrated within the vast majority of posts at this forum is simply astounding. The poor arguments raised are so easily refuted, it's all so absurd. Is everyone here in high school? I've never seen another forum like this in all my life. It's like you're all from another planet. People here don't even care to take the time to read. No one even wants to share or obtain useful information of any sort whatsoever. It's like you're all just posting to be posting, increasing a post count, and throwing your silly little signatures around. Headphone meets? For what?? To see who's got the most high priced boutique items, standing around all day ********ting about them? This place is insane, no doubt about it. I was well aware of this before I started this thread, which is exactly why I started it the way I did. If this is what owning headphones is about, I don't want any part of it. It's no wonder I can't find a decent set of cans, if this is the type of audience they're geared towards. I'd initially thought that maybe this thread would attract people who share my interests, and something useful could come out of it. While there obviously are a lot of decent people around here, they're much too few and far between. I tend to be the easy going type, always willing to try to get along. However, I honestly don't see how some of you can stand it here. Are there any other headphone related forums in existence that don't possess such negative qualities as this one? Or, is this really the predominant disposition of headphone aficionados everywhere? I'd already apologized long ago for offending anyone. Intentionally offensive? Not up until now. I'm amazed at how so many of you are still posting in this thread, and I think that raises an obvious question. Good luck to all of you.

You Sir, are a troll. The only insane thing around here is how many people fell for your troll post hook line and sinker. I have offered you lots of advice at the beginning of this thread (first to recommend you try Etymotic ER4s) and you have not replied even once to any of my posts, which illustrates you are here solely for trolling purposes. When people put up good counter-arguments to your ridiculous posts your final move is to lose control and post the immature nonsense above. Good riddance.

 

[catscratch]

So, you pass judgement about all headphones after having heard a couple out of your less than stellar gear? You accuse the forum of immaturity when you're displaying more immaturity yourself than the majority of the people that took the time to respond to you? You dismiss useful information passed your way and then bash everyone for not giving you any relevant information?

Sorry man, this type of attitude will not fly here. A moderator has been called to assist your timely exit and close down this thread.

 

[shasty]

How this thread ended up is pretty saddening. Granted, the OP had a provocative thread title and condescending remarks, but we could have developed the thread to be a bit more civil. Just because he was condescending doesn't mean we have to step up the condescension and accusations a notch. To me, that just shows insecurity and ignorance. The OP was shedding a new light on what is defined as neutral, and whether or not his arguments were true, there could have been discussions and suggestions between people who prefer neutral sound. Even if some posters really thought he was just a mere troll provoking everyone, the thread could have avoided the exchange of flying accusations by following the most effective rule: Don't Feed the Troll.
PS: I'm in no way blaming this solely on headfi, the OP clearly stepped out of line.

 

[Makenshi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pistachio /img/forum/go_quote.gif Even then, I would be interested in hearing these 20db peaks, that is four times the volume of other sections of the sonic spectrum, it is verging on dangerous.

Well, based on my very unscientific findings (read:borderline opinion) using the sinegen, for me it has to do with the way distance affects my sensitivity in regards to certain frequency spectrum. Every single pair of full sized headphones I have tried so far has a peak gain of 10+ db somewhere between 10 to 13kHz. Curiously, the same happens to the 2 separate POS speakers I have. However, when I hold the laptop and press the speaker against my ears and play sinegen on lower volume (yes, this is a very controlled scientific experiment), I find the gain reduced to around 6 decibels. Finally, using my CX500 (which is hardly a neutral phone but whatever), I find that the normally ear-piercing region is fairly in line with the other regions in terms of volume.

Now, it could be possible that both my POS onboard soundcards have ridiculously high gain at the exact same frequency and that CX500 is extremely lacking at the same said frequency, but given the ultra-accurate hold-your-laptop-next-to-your-ear test I don't believe that's the case. However, it's interesting to note that the 10+db gain doesn't really bother me when listening to music, possibly because that's how I have been perceiving sound at that frequency spectrum all my life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BHTX /img/forum/go_quote.gif tl;dr

Yea, whatever. You had my interest for about the first 5 posts (where I actually did post some replies) before it quickly become apparent that you are just trying to stir up some attention, regardless of the validity of your claims. Have fun wherever you go. Bye.

 

[scytheavatar]

Can one of the mods please close this topic already? It's obviously a troll thread and a very badly done one.