The war of the worlds: W5000 v. HD650 v. SA5000
Jun 20, 2006 at 9:59 PM Post #271 of 297
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
Just an FYI for readers of this thread, I have acquired a balanced Gilmore Reference amp, and will be balancing my W5000, so you can look forward to impressions of one of the first balanced W5k's.


Balanced W5000???
Wow, that would be really fantastic!!!
580smile.gif
 
Jun 20, 2006 at 10:17 PM Post #272 of 297
I must say that even in single-ended mode, the Headamp Reference improves the sound of the W5k over my Dynahi, it's now a bit stronger and deeper in the bass, reminding me somewhat (though not to the monsterous levels of) a well-amped L3k. I don't know if it's the dual-mono power supplies, the blackgate power caps, or perhaps som other factor, but I am already quite impressed. Hopefully going balanced will only help.
 
Jun 20, 2006 at 11:48 PM Post #273 of 297
Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer
I must say that even in single-ended mode, the Headamp Reference improves the sound of the W5k over my Dynahi...


But wait I've been saying that since I compared the Reference to the Dynahi, but the Dynahi runs so much hotter how could this be
wink.gif
/e runs off ahead of the masses with torches and pitchforks
biggrin.gif


The Reference really is special, its the one piece of my rig I won't even consider swapping. Maybe the Tri-Vista 21 too but the Reference never. Enjoy it.
 
Jun 20, 2006 at 11:54 PM Post #274 of 297
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude
But wait I've been saying that since I compared the Reference to the Dynahi, but the Dynahi runs so much hotter how could this be
wink.gif
/e runs off ahead of the masses with torches and pitchforks
biggrin.gif


The Reference really is special, its the one piece of my rig I won't even consider swapping. Maybe the Tri-Vista 21 too but the Reference never. Enjoy it.



LOL, I was a bit Dynahi-obsessed at one point in time. Perhaps if my Dynahi were built as well as the Reference, it would be a fairer fight
wink.gif


It is one hell of an amp, I've never heard the K1000 sound as good as it did from my current rig (almost enough to make me buy one, if I couldn't have speakers).
 
Jun 21, 2006 at 12:37 PM Post #275 of 297
Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianS
we are talking about the hd650 balanced directly out of the opus correct?

any more early impressions Vic?



Yes Brian, I will test the HD650 balanced out of the Opus 21 and out of the Lavry.
On paper the Opus 21 should not do a great job. as they output 5.5 volts with 100 Ohms, it should not be enough juice. I believe the Lavry has an output impedance of 75 Ohms, but I don't know the output power. Perhaps somebody could tell me.
ATM the cable (Enigma) is sharpening its nails and should be ready for the battle in about a week
 
Jun 21, 2006 at 7:20 PM Post #276 of 297
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic
Yes Brian, I will test the HD650 balanced out of the Opus 21 and out of the Lavry.
On paper the Opus 21 should not do a great job. as they output 5.5 volts with 100 Ohms, it should not be enough juice. I believe the Lavry has an output impedance of 75 Ohms, but I don't know the output power. Perhaps somebody could tell me.
ATM the cable (Enigma) is sharpening its nails and should be ready for the battle in about a week



The cable has got until saturday to be at it's fighting peak, soldier. Very important battle lines are being drawn in North london. Of course this isn't simply a shameless plug for my meet (see my sig) but just looking forward to hearing the gear...
 
Jun 21, 2006 at 7:29 PM Post #277 of 297
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic
On paper the Opus 21 should not do a great job. as they output 5.5 volts with 100 Ohms, it should not be enough juice.


My Reference is capped at 2.2V and I still only listen at 10 o'clock on the DACT. 5.5V is huge for the Senn 650. Remember the Senn 650 will hit ~104dB with 1V, which is well into hearing damage range. Its the quality of that 1V that matters, not the 1V itself since even an iPod can deliver the goods on paper.
 
Jun 21, 2006 at 7:29 PM Post #278 of 297
Vic,

Has the Lavry got the same balanced connectors as the DAC1 (male) as I've got a diy modded standard Senn cable & Zu Mobuis XLR cable on my HD650 now?

Steve
 
Jun 21, 2006 at 8:50 PM Post #279 of 297
Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd
Vic,

Has the Lavry got the same balanced connectors as the DAC1 (male) as I've got a diy modded standard Senn cable & Zu Mobuis XLR cable on my HD650 now?

Steve



yes, they are male
 
Jun 21, 2006 at 10:53 PM Post #280 of 297
Quote:

Originally Posted by StevieDvd
Vic,

Has the Lavry got the same balanced connectors as the DAC1 (male) as I've got a diy modded standard Senn cable & Zu Mobuis XLR cable on my HD650 now?

Steve



Yes, they are male
 
Jun 22, 2006 at 1:13 AM Post #281 of 297
Quote:

Originally Posted by Solude
My Reference is capped at 2.2V and I still only listen at 10 o'clock on the DACT. 5.5V is huge for the Senn 650. Remember the Senn 650 will hit ~104dB with 1V, which is well into hearing damage range. Its the quality of that 1V that matters, not the 1V itself since even an iPod can deliver the goods on paper.


I perfectely agree with the fact that quality counts more than quality (as always in life), but stil, IIRC the Ohm law, the voltage is only one of the factor in output power, the other one being the impedance (excuse me for my very poor English here). 5.5v is a good voltage output, but 100 Ohm is a really high impedance value, so the real output of the Opus 21 is quite weak for the HD650.
If your Reference outputs 2.2v at, for exemple, 30 Ohm, then it has a much more powerful final output than my Opus 21. And mainly, it does not matter at all how loud the output would be (almost any amp is capable to drive cans to damaging levels), but how well they will be driven.
Please someone correct me if I am wrong
 
Jun 22, 2006 at 2:44 AM Post #282 of 297
I have being taking a few weeks off this thread: I have had plenty of visitors in London in the past couple of weeks (I had to post a sign "No vacancies" outside my house), plus the world cup of football, and a few golf competitions. Also, believe me, my ears needed a rest after so many hours of listening to the same CDs with different combinations of headphones and amps.

The SA5000 seems to be the HP that gets the least attention among the four in this war; it also seems to be for me the most difficult one to analyse: it is certainly not the headphoe for all seasons, but I still enjoy it. As I have probably said millions of times already, it would never be my only one can, but I enjoy to have it to get a different perspective of certain CDs; with some recording can even give better results than the other three. For example I thought that the Bela Fleck and the Flektones live album with the SA5000 sounded better than with any other can.

Compared to the Lavry, the Original Master gives some extra bass power and a needed extra body. I am really impressed by the quality of this little amp: generally amplifiers at this price point introduce a lot of flaws in the big picture, but the OM show great authority, not the least amount of grain, a very clean and pleasant presentation; also the SA5000 becomes more natural, the instruments are closer to what they should be in reality.
The SA5000 as usual shines in terms of detail and speed, while the limited soundstage and the limited body are the limiting factors.
All and all the combo is highly enjoyable and gives the possibility to get a really high quality rig at this very low price point. To be 100% honest I must add that I am using as source the Opus 21, which I consider the best source I have ever heard; with a lesser source things can of course be different.
I have the feeling that the OM has been voiced mainly for the HD650 and, as such, it tends to be very slightly brigth (which goes very well with the HD650). The SA5000 has a slight tendency towards brightness, so on some bright recordings the combo could be a bit bright, but I only noticed this very rarely.

Bottom line is that if I will have to get rid of one of the four cans, I still am not sure which one would be the victim: the SA5000 is a very enjoyable can, although flawed in many ways.
Regarding the OM, I insist on the fact that have not heard anything south of $700-800 that can better it. To find something that I would consider superior I would have to go up to the Raptor or any of the Singlepowers. To my ears tis little amp is even better than very regarded amps like the Earmax Pro or the HR2.
Of course there are a few corner being cut: especially with with the SA000 I have noticed some noticeable hiss, also the RCA imputs are very poorly implemented and they tend to stick to the interconnect cable, so that I had to manually rescue them from the cable and reposition them back on the amp; very annoying.

Finally I can very strongly recommend the OM to anyone looking for a solid, good SS amp below $500 (at a price of $190).
The SA5000 holds very well is place at its price point as a special headphone and I think it still has some miles to come. I really have the feeling that this HP would enjoy a lot a tube amp with really tubey and dark tubes.

Time for bed now
 
Jul 6, 2006 at 6:15 PM Post #283 of 297
Vic did you give up on assigning numerical values to your review, see part four? Are you still working on this review for the return of the Jedi and part 3?

I hear that you listen to the volume at really high levels. How would pulling back on the volume change your preceptions for each set of headphones or would you even consider this. The HD650 might jump ahead of the W5000 at a "reasonable" volume level, what do you think?

Your evaluation's credibility has been challenged with this new intelligence that you listen at levels no one else would consider.

/On Conjecture/

In other words to get the response that you are hearing I have to listen at your volume levels and since I don't I will not get the response that you are getting. How much of a measureable change does a lower volume level have on your evaluations?

/Off Conjecture/
 
Jul 7, 2006 at 6:30 AM Post #284 of 297
With the revelation that Vic listens at earbleeding volume, this 'war of the worlds' thread suddenly makes more sense.
smily_headphones1.gif


I listen at low to moderate volume levels, and consider the W5000 my favorite headphone. I feel the HD650 sounds better at high volume, at a level that is higher than my usual listening level. It becomes more balanced and energetic, and loses some of its laid-back sluggishness at low volume. Driven directly from the Lavry DA10's XLR outputs with volume cranked up, the HD650 transforms into a berserker with a double-bladed axe.
 
Jul 7, 2006 at 1:46 PM Post #285 of 297
OK, what is this legend now of me listening at crazy volume?
Is more that Stew and StevieDVD have incredibly sharp ears.

Well, since we have very similar gear, out of the Lavry headphone jack with the W5000, I use between 16 and 22, according to the different CDs. What about you guys?
 

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